Okanogan/Wenatchee travel management process

[Skyvalhunter]

Okanogan/Wenatchee USFS have put out their travel travel management process showing motorcycle, atv, 4x4, etc areas. There is a map located there.
www.fs.fed.us/r6/okawen/travel-management

[mebco09]

Thanks for that link.  Useful information.  Wait until the bunny huggers see new ATV trails.

You know, we could save a lot of time and money in this state if they just allowed the use of ATVs on county roads like in many other western states.  Then there would be no need to make up "travel management maps". 

[norsepeak]

Exactly!  We've been saying that for years.  You go to other states and they encourage ATV's on the forest service roads because it means REVENUE!  People will spend money to travel to other areas/states to vacation and ride ATV's but they can't do that here.  Crazy.

[mebco09]

Exactly!  We've been saying that for years.  You go to other states and they encourage ATV's on the forest service roads because it means REVENUE!  People will spend money to travel to other areas/states to vacation and ride ATV's but they can't do that here.  Crazy.

Not to jack the thread, but...

How hard would it be for an ATV manufacturer to make a street legal machine?  I see those Bombardier trikes that are street legal, kind of the same concept in reverse.  Whatever manufacturer comes up with the first one will sell the heck out of them.  I bet you could double the price of an off-road unit and people would still buy them.

[358NM]

Adopting a state law similar to the law Idaho adopted in January 2010 would be a good start for Washington. In Idaho you can purchase a restricted vehicle license plate for your ATV or side by side and ride on virtually any road, city, state, county, BLM and USFS except freeways and some other minor restrictions, as well as speed limitations. When you buy your license you sign a form stating your vehicle meets the requirements listed in the law. If you are stopped and you don't meet the requirements, you get a ticket. No inspections, only your personal responsibility. I even had the forest service guy help me unload my RZR in a forest service campground last summer. Try that in Washington and see what the ticket is. Responsible use of AT V's and enforcement is the key. I can see where this type of law may not work in some areas on the west side. I think it would be very workable in the rest of the state.

[bigtex]

Adopting a state law similar to the law Idaho adopted in January 2010 would be a good start for Washington. In Idaho you can purchase a restricted vehicle license plate for your ATV or side by side and ride on virtually any road, city, state, county, BLM and USFS except freeways and some other minor restrictions, as well as speed limitations. When you buy your license you sign a form stating your vehicle meets the requirements listed in the law. If you are stopped and you don't meet the requirements, you get a ticket. No inspections, only your personal responsibility. I even had the forest service guy help me unload my RZR in a forest service campground last summer. Try that in Washington and see what the ticket is. Responsible use of AT V's and enforcement is the key. I can see where this type of law may not work in some areas on the west side. I think it would be very workable in the rest of the state.

 
Also in Idaho adults don't even need to wear a helmet. I believe only those under 12/13 do.

[netcoyote]

Also in Idaho adults don't even need to wear a helmet. I believe only those under 12/13 do.

Compare that to WA. Last fall I was unloading my quad up at Evans Creek and a couple guys warned me about the ranger roaming around recently. They told me a guy got a ticket for not wearing a helmet while backing a quad off a trailer! Pretty chicken-s**t if you ask me.

[bobcat]

Adopting a state law similar to the law Idaho adopted in January 2010 would be a good start for Washington. In Idaho you can purchase a restricted vehicle license plate for your ATV or side by side and ride on virtually any road, city, state, county, BLM and USFS except freeways and some other minor restrictions, as well as speed limitations. When you buy your license you sign a form stating your vehicle meets the requirements listed in the law. If you are stopped and you don't meet the requirements, you get a ticket. No inspections, only your personal responsibility. I even had the forest service guy help me unload my RZR in a forest service campground last summer. Try that in Washington and see what the ticket is. Responsible use of AT V's and enforcement is the key. I can see where this type of law may not work in some areas on the west side. I think it would be very workable in the rest of the state.

 
Washington state DID pass a law, just like what you're talking about, a few years ago. I even printed out a copy of it. It's now up to the National Forest to change THEIR rules so that ATV's can be used on forest service roads in this state.
 
If you don't believe me about the law, I will dig it out of my file cabinet and post the number so it can be looked up. I don't know why nothing ever seemed to come of it. The new law even made it so that certain county roads could be designated as legal for ATV's, as long as it had a speed limit of 35 mph or less.

[bigtex]

Also in Idaho adults don't even need to wear a helmet. I believe only those under 12/13 do.

Compare that to WA. Last fall I was unloading my quad up at Evans Creek and a couple guys warned me about the ranger roaming around recently. They told me a guy got a ticket for not wearing a helmet while backing a quad off a trailer! Pretty chicken-s**t if you ask me.

There is a federal USFS Officer (law enforcement in the USFS are officers not rangers, USFS rangers are non-LE workers) that works USFS land off of the SR 410/165 area including Evans Creek. He is very Law Enforcement minded and has no problem writing tickets for small violations. He can write federal tickets while on federal land and the Pierce County Sheriff has given him the authority to act as a county deputy anywhere in the county.

[bigtex]

Adopting a state law similar to the law Idaho adopted in January 2010 would be a good start for Washington. In Idaho you can purchase a restricted vehicle license plate for your ATV or side by side and ride on virtually any road, city, state, county, BLM and USFS except freeways and some other minor restrictions, as well as speed limitations. When you buy your license you sign a form stating your vehicle meets the requirements listed in the law. If you are stopped and you don't meet the requirements, you get a ticket. No inspections, only your personal responsibility. I even had the forest service guy help me unload my RZR in a forest service campground last summer. Try that in Washington and see what the ticket is. Responsible use of AT V's and enforcement is the key. I can see where this type of law may not work in some areas on the west side. I think it would be very workable in the rest of the state.

 
Washington state DID pass a law, just like what you're talking about, a few years ago. I even printed out a copy of it. It's now up to the National Forest to change THEIR rules so that ATV's can be used on forest service roads in this state.

And that’s where the issue is with federal land management agencies, each management unit (national forest, national park, wildlife refuge, etc) is essentially its own kingdom. It’s not like with WDFW or DNR lands where basically the rules are the same (maybe some minor differences) no matter where you are in the state. With the feds there are some basic agency rules (such as not leaving a campfire burning unattended) that are nationwide, but the majority of them are local rules that are made by the local park superintendent/forest supervisor/BLM district manager. So basically whatever the top guy of the park/forest/refuge thinks should be “right/legal” is what the law is. So with these agencies there are constantly changing regulations as the top boss of the unit changes. And this is why what may be legal on the Olympic National Forest is illegal on the Mt Baker-Snoqualmie or Okanogan-Wenatchee.

So for example if the forest supervisor of the Olympic National Forest doesn’t like ATV’s then he can heavily restrict the usage of them on that forest. But if the supervisor of the Mt. Baker-Snoqualmie loves ATV’s then he can loosen the restrictions on the usage of them. And this is perfectly legal under the Code of Federal Regulations (basically the WAC for the federal government) which allows the forest supervisor to adopt rules for their forest.

[Elkaholic daWg]

Adopting a state law similar to the law Idaho adopted in January 2010 would be a good start for Washington. In Idaho you can purchase a restricted vehicle license plate for your ATV or side by side and ride on virtually any road, city, state, county, BLM and USFS except freeways and some other minor restrictions, as well as speed limitations. When you buy your license you sign a form stating your vehicle meets the requirements listed in the law. If you are stopped and you don't meet the requirements, you get a ticket. No inspections, only your personal responsibility. I even had the forest service guy help me unload my RZR in a forest service campground last summer. Try that in Washington and see what the ticket is. Responsible use of AT V's and enforcement is the key. I can see where this type of law may not work in some areas on the west side. I think it would be very workable in the rest of the state.

 
Washington state DID pass a law, just like what you're talking about, a few years ago. I even printed out a copy of it. It's now up to the National Forest to change THEIR rules so that ATV's can be used on forest service roads in this state.

And that’s where the issue is with federal land management agencies, each management unit (national forest, national park, wildlife refuge, etc) is essentially its own kingdom. It’s not like with WDFW or DNR lands where basically the rules are the same (maybe some minor differences) no matter where you are in the state. With the feds there are some basic agency rules (such as not leaving a campfire burning unattended) that are nationwide, but the majority of them are local rules that are made by the local park superintendent/forest supervisor/BLM district manager. So basically whatever the top guy of the park/forest/refuge thinks should be “right/legal” is what the law is. So with these agencies there are constantly changing regulations as the top boss of the unit changes. And this is why what may be legal on the Olympic National Forest is illegal on the Mt Baker-Snoqualmie or Okanogan-Wenatchee.

So for example if the forest supervisor of the Olympic National Forest doesn’t like ATV’s then he can heavily restrict the usage of them on that forest. But if the supervisor of the Mt. Baker-Snoqualmie loves ATV’s then he can loosen the restrictions on the usage of them. And this is perfectly legal under the Code of Federal Regulations (basically the WAC for the federal government) which allows the forest supervisor to adopt rules for their forest.

 Seems it's about time that we get some folks in congress to remedy this, as they have attempted with the wolf issue.  Leaf lickers don't like consistency though

[bigtex]

Adopting a state law similar to the law Idaho adopted in January 2010 would be a good start for Washington. In Idaho you can purchase a restricted vehicle license plate for your ATV or side by side and ride on virtually any road, city, state, county, BLM and USFS except freeways and some other minor restrictions, as well as speed limitations. When you buy your license you sign a form stating your vehicle meets the requirements listed in the law. If you are stopped and you don't meet the requirements, you get a ticket. No inspections, only your personal responsibility. I even had the forest service guy help me unload my RZR in a forest service campground last summer. Try that in Washington and see what the ticket is. Responsible use of AT V's and enforcement is the key. I can see where this type of law may not work in some areas on the west side. I think it would be very workable in the rest of the state.

 
Washington state DID pass a law, just like what you're talking about, a few years ago. I even printed out a copy of it. It's now up to the National Forest to change THEIR rules so that ATV's can be used on forest service roads in this state.

And that’s where the issue is with federal land management agencies, each management unit (national forest, national park, wildlife refuge, etc) is essentially its own kingdom. It’s not like with WDFW or DNR lands where basically the rules are the same (maybe some minor differences) no matter where you are in the state. With the feds there are some basic agency rules (such as not leaving a campfire burning unattended) that are nationwide, but the majority of them are local rules that are made by the local park superintendent/forest supervisor/BLM district manager. So basically whatever the top guy of the park/forest/refuge thinks should be “right/legal” is what the law is. So with these agencies there are constantly changing regulations as the top boss of the unit changes. And this is why what may be legal on the Olympic National Forest is illegal on the Mt Baker-Snoqualmie or Okanogan-Wenatchee.

So for example if the forest supervisor of the Olympic National Forest doesn’t like ATV’s then he can heavily restrict the usage of them on that forest. But if the supervisor of the Mt. Baker-Snoqualmie loves ATV’s then he can loosen the restrictions on the usage of them. And this is perfectly legal under the Code of Federal Regulations (basically the WAC for the federal government) which allows the forest supervisor to adopt rules for their forest.

 Seems it's about time that we get some folks in congress to remedy this, as they have attempted with the wolf issue.  Leaf lickers don't like consistency though

Actually congress has nothing to do with the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR). Congress makes rules that are apart of the United States Code (USC). It’s similar to how the Washington Legislature makes RCW’s while state agencies/commissions make WAC’s. Federal agencies make CFR’s. Essentially what happens with the creation of a CFR is that the agency proposes the rule then the Secretary of the federal department that the agency belongs to signs off on the regulation and thus becomes law. With the Forest Service it is the Secretary of Agriculture that is the final decision maker, with BLM, USFWS, NPS and several other agencies it is the Secretary of the Interior.

[Elkaholic daWg]

 So your telling us we need  a conservative at 1600 Pennsylvania  Avenue naming our next secretaries of agriculture, and interior, eh?

[bigtex]

So your telling us we need  a conservative at 1600 Pennsylvania  Avenue naming our next secretaries of agriculture, and interior, eh?

Actually not even to that extent because it's not the actual Secretary that makes up the laws, they just sign off on them. Basically their agency heads (director of BLM, USFS, etc) puts the proposal in front of them, saying thats what the agency wants and the secretary signs it. What we need is somebody that is the director (or even regional directors) of USFS, BLM, USFWS to have the same ideas that we have. Then they can change the way their agency works by hiring people for Forest Supervisor positions or BLM District Managers with the same mentality as us. Washingtons management is under a different region then Idaho, maybe thats where the difference lays  . Here is the regional makeup of the USFS: http://www.fs.fed.us/contactus/regions.shtml

[mebco09]

 
Washington state DID pass a law, just like what you're talking about, a few years ago. I even printed out a copy of it. It's now up to the National Forest to change THEIR rules so that ATV's can be used on forest service roads in this state.
 
If you don't believe me about the law, I will dig it out of my file cabinet and post the number so it can be looked up. I don't know why nothing ever seemed to come of it. The new law even made it so that certain county roads could be designated as legal for ATV's, as long as it had a speed limit of 35 mph or less.

Bobcat-  Can you post that RCW #?   It can't be as liberal as Idaho's, can it? 

Where I have run into trouble with the laws in Chelan Co. is that whoever pulls you over, says it is the jurisdiction of another government agency and they are just enforcing their rules.  For example, I got a ticket on my XR250 (no plate) for running it on a road within the Wenatchee Nat'l Forest, that also happened to be a "county road".  This was by a County Sherriff.  A few years later, I get stopped (no ticket this time, just a warning) on a spur road off the same County Rd.  This time I had a License plate on the same XR250, but the ticket was for no ORV tag on an ORV trail, with a licensed bike.  This was by a USFS Ranger (woman).  Wouldn't it be nice if all the laws were consistent and you didn't have to guess?!?