Wolf Wars have moved to Washington

[Hockdo7]

@ Robert

What does that prove? That 39 inch steelhead are always overstimated, a 300 class bull is usually in the 270 range, a 30 inch buck in usually no more then 25 inches wide??? The only native species of wolf is the timber wolf, a much smaller version.

[robertg]

What does that prove? That 39 inch steelhead is always overstimated, a 300 class bull is usually in the 270 range, a 30 inch buck in usually no more then 25 inches wide??? The only native species of wolf is the timber wolf, a much smaller version.

The timberwolf is just another name for the gray wolf. There are 2 species of wolf in North America, the red wolf and the gray wolf. The gray wolf is sometimes called the timberwolf, but it is a gray wolf. The "native" wolf was not much smaller. The "native" wolf was 5-20 pounds smaller on average than the reintroduced gray wolves. Size is determined by diet.

[robertg]

@ Robert

What does that prove? That 39 inch steelhead are always overstimated, a 300 class bull is usually in the 270 range, a 30 inch buck in usually no more then 25 inches wide??? The only native species of wolf is the timber wolf, a much smaller version.

"“I’m curious that they throw out those numbers – that the Canadian wolves are 50 to 100 pounds bigger than the native Idaho wolves,” Husseman said. “I don’t know where those numbers come from.”

Hayden said the most authoritative research on wolf subspecies comes from a former U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service zoologist, Ronald Nowak, who studied 580 historic skulls of full-grown male wolves. Nowak concluded that North America had five subspecies of gray wolves. Two subspecies had historic ranges in Idaho – the Rocky Mountain wolf and the Great Plains wolf.

The Rocky Mountain subspecies outweighed the Great Plains wolf by about 20 pounds, Hayden said. But their ranges overlapped in the Idaho Panhandle, according to Nowak’s research."

[Huntnphish]

I do find it a bit odd that Washington has a lot of cougars and as of now, they are killing many more deer and elk than wolves and all people seem to focus on is wolves. There seems to be a lot of hate for wolves and not that much hate for cougars even though there are by far many more cougars in WA and they are killing many more deer and elk than wolves as of now.

 We are all well aware of this obvious fact Robert, this just shows an additional reason why there is no room for wolves, thanks for reiterating this fact though.

  We have to fight one battle at a time, you can rest assured the cougar issue will be next on the list of wrongs to right.

[Machias]

Also it's not hate for wolves and hate for lions.  Lions are at least being somewhat managed.  At one point a few years ago they seem to be managing them quite well, and for some reason they have gotten sidetracked.  The reason you see folks getting fired up about wolves is we already know from experience they will be allowed to flourish to the point they decimate deer, elk and moose herds and still the wolf advocates will fight us tooth and nail to properly manage them.

[sebek556]

 

[mulehunter]

If you look back I have been following this thread since the beginning and have not posted.  My frustration level continues to rise and rise.  We all want the same thing, MANAGED WOLVES, however following the rules, playing nice will NOT GET US THERE!!!       All we have to do is look east and those three states have a population MUCH more hunter friendly then we do.  This state will never ever see the pressure that was brought from the residents of ID and MT.  If we don't do SOMETHING it will all be lost in our lifetime.  We will not have a heritage to pass along to our children.

   I missed out all best oppourity hunting. People from 1930-1996 they said awsome awsome they are so thankful to have all good time.  Here we go 1996 to 2011 with all bulls!t.
No WONDER.

Mulehunter.   

[BIGINNER]

I KNOW WIKI ISN'T A REAL SOURCE OF INFO,  BUT HERE YOU GO.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Plains_Wolf   

The Great Plains wolf (Canis lupus nubilus), also known as the Buffalo wolf, is the most common subspecies of the gray wolf in the continental United States. It currently inhabits the western Great Lakes region of the United States and Canada. A typical Great Plains wolf is between 4½ and 6½ feet long, from snout to tail, weighs from 60 to 110 pounds, and may have a coat of gray, black or buff with red-ish coloring. Like all wolves, the Great Plains wolf is a very social animal that communicates using body language, scent marking and vocalization with an average pack size of five to six wolves. The territory size for the Great Plains wolf depends on the type and density of prey. Typical prey for the Great Plains wolf consists of white-tailed deer, moose, beaver, snowshoe hare, and smaller birds and mammals.

The historic range of the Great Plains wolf was throughout the United States and the southern regions of Canada. By the 1930s, Great Plains wolves were extirpated almost eliminated completely, in much of the western United States.

In Wisconsin and Michigan, the Great Plains wolf was eradicated by the mid- 1960s. Only a small group of wolves survived in northeastern Minnesota along the Ontario border. In 1974, the Great Plains wolf in the Great Lakes region became fully protected as an endangered species. By 1978, Minnesota's wolf population had increased enough that the wolf was reclassified as threatened in Minnesota. The Great Plains wolf is found in the Eastern distinct population segment (DPS) categorized under the Endangered Species Act which is now awaiting new legislation to completely remove it from the endangered species list.

The estimated population for Great Plains wolves for 2004 in the United States was over 3,700 wolves. The population was distributed as follows: Michigan 360 Isle Royale 30 Wisconsin 425 Minnesota 3,020 North and South Dakota officials have noted lone wolves but evidence indicates that the wolves were dispersers from populations outside the Dakotas, and that a breeding population probably does not exist there.

THESE WERE RELEASED IN YELLOWSTONE

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mackenzie_Valley_Wolf

The Mackenzie Valley Wolf (Canis lupus occidentalis) also known as the Canadian Timber Wolf is perhaps the largest subspecies of Gray Wolf in North America. Its range includes parts of the western United States, much of western Canada, and Alaska, including Unimak Island in the Aleutians, and was introduced into Yellowstone National Park and central Idaho.[2] The subspecies has since spread into other states, such as Washington, Oregon, Nevada, and Northern California.[3] There have also been several sightings of the subspecies in the Sierra Nevada[4] & the Warner Mountains

Contents [hide]
1 Anatomy
2 Social behaviour
3 Diet
4 Hunting
5 Current status and history
6 References
7 External links
8 Gallery
 

[edit] Anatomy
A Mackenzie Valley Wolf in Yellowstone.Mackenzie Valley Wolves typically stand about 32–36 inches (81–95 cm) at the shoulder and males weigh between 100 and 145 pounds   (45–65 kg).[5] The weight record is held by a wild specimen caught in Alaska in 1939 which weighed 175 pounds.[6]

The Mackenzie Valley Wolf has a specialized body that has made it one of the world's most efficient hunters. Its thick, long limbs are proportionally built for traversing through rough terrain such as deep snow or the cliffy edges of the Rocky Mountains. Its deep chest hosts large lungs, letting the wolf breathe more efficiently at higher altitudes, and allowing it to exert huge amounts of stamina traveling up to 115 km (~70 miles) in one day. Its powerful neck is a very important adaptation: it has to be strong to support the wolf's large head and is crucial for bringing down prey. The Mackenzie Valley Wolf maximizes heat retention through such methods as using its bushy tail to cover its exposed nose during the winter. It sheds its undercoat during the summer months due to the hotter conditions.

The skull is 31 cm (12 inches) long and is armed with an impressive array of large canines and carnassial teeth which, when coupled with huge jaw muscles that are evident from the large sagittal crest and wide zygomatic arches, give it an incredible biteforce that is strong enough to break the bones of prey and even crack the femur of moose.

[edit] Social behaviourIn Alaska, pack sizes are generally 6–12 wolves, with some packs as large as 20–30. Territory size averages 600 square miles (1,600 km2). Wolf packs in Yellowstone average 9.2 wolves with an average territory of 348-square-mile (900 km2), while wolf packs in Idaho average 11.1 and 364-square-mile (940 km2) territories.[2]

[edit] DietThe majority of the Mackenzie Valley Wolf's prey includes wild boar , wood bison, muskox, moose, caribou, deer, and elk. Mackenzie valley wolves introduced into Yellowstone have taken down adult Plains Bison, proving their success and adaptability in a whole new environment.

[edit] HuntingSuccess with killing moose has been recorded as low as 10%, this is due to the majority of wolf performed to test out the prey. When preying on large to medium sized animals such as caribou and elk, pack members will in turn chase an ill or disadvantage prey item and wait till they tire. They will then slowly start to tear away at the prey, attacking the flanks, the muzzle, neck and hindquarters. Prey usually die from disembowelment, shock and exhaustion caused by lack of air through suffocation and blood loss. For small prey, wolves will bite down and sever the jugular veins and windpipe, sometimes even shaking to break the animals vertebrae. [1]

[edit] Current status and historySee also: Yellowstone gray wolf reintroduction
 
Reintroduced gray wolf in Yellowstone National ParkThe Mackenzie Valley Wolf was the subspecies used in the Yellowstone introduction effort, where it has become a successful apex predator much like it is in its vast northern range. In Yellowstone, it has been crucial in restoring environmental balance in that it has clamped down on the less fit members of the herds on which it feeds, thereby keeping large ungulate numbers in check and allowing certain floral and faunal species to recover, promoting biodiversity. Wolves were also introduced in central Idaho and entered northwest Montana from Canada. The wolf population in the Northern Rockies has since grown to an estimated 1300 animals.[7] The wolf population in Alaska is estimated at 7,500–11,000 wolves.

 
Captive Mackenzie Valley Wolf in the Czech RepublicThe protection given to the Mackenzie Valley wolf has allowed its population to rise dramatically, causing several young animals to leave the boundraries of Yellowstone and establish territories in areas where they may enter conflict with humans. In Wyoming and Idaho, 90 wolves have been killed to date because of livestock run-ins. In Montana, 32 wolves were killed in 2007 by federal agents. The Montana figure does not include an unknown number of wolves killed by ranchers defending their livestock. The death toll hit a record figure of 142 wolves in 2006. Federal officials plan to remove gray wolves in the Northern Rocky Mountains from the endangered species list in February 2008, although court challenges are considered inevitable and could delay a final delisting. In the Rocky mountains, non-lethal responses to livestock kills, such as hazing wolves away from a ranch, are used when they can be pushed into an area without livestock.[7]

Since its reintroduction to Yellowstone, the Mackenzie Valley wolf's possible involvement in the decline of elk populations has been a subject of controversy. On one hand, Yellowstone officials have stated that computer analysis indicates that there is greater justification for believing that the human hunting rate and severe climate, account for at least much of the decline, with wolf predation amounting to very little. Others state that the decline is an inevitable result of an exploded wolf population.[8]

[JimmyHoffa]

What does that prove? That 39 inch steelhead is always overstimated, a 300 class bull is usually in the 270 range, a 30 inch buck in usually no more then 25 inches wide??? The only native species of wolf is the timber wolf, a much smaller version.

The timberwolf is just another name for the gray wolf. There are 2 species of wolf in North America, the red wolf and the gray wolf. The gray wolf is sometimes called the timberwolf, but it is a gray wolf. The "native" wolf was not much smaller. The "native" wolf was 5-20 pounds smaller on average than the reintroduced gray wolves. Size is determined by diet.

Yeah, BIGINNER kind of went where I was about to go.  For one of my examples, I was going to use the white-tailed deer.  Ranges from Northern Canada to South America.  Basically one species, but it has maybe 40 sub-species.  They range from the Key deer in Florida weighing around 50 lbs to Northern whitetails in Minnesota that can get over 300 lbs, with one estimated at 500lbs.  The same thing happens among many species, wolves being one.

[sebek556]

An "invasive species" is defined as a species that is

1) non-native (or alien) to the ecosystem under consideration and

2) whose introduction causes or is likely to cause economic or environmental harm or harm to human health. (Executive Order 13112).
http://www.invasivespeciesinfo.gov/whatis.shtml
From class at U SC DR Gilman " any species removed from a environment for a extended period of time is a invasive species, the environment has changes and evolves over time so species that once were in a environment may not fit into the ecosystem anymore" taken from a  lecture on raising alligator populations in South Carolina.

[Gringo31]

Seems invasive to me 

[Huntnphish]

 I'm a firm believer in allowing everyone to voice their opinion but I just checked this clowns posts since joining and its clear he is only on here to cause hate, discontent and stir the pot. I'm quite surprised the admin team has allowed him to spew his left wing, tree hugging rhetoric for this long.

 He has been asked repeatedly for facts and documentation yet only replies to posts where he can continue to stir the pot without contributing anything positive yet fly under the radar of the mods.

 I say send him packing with a link to that pinhead Cascades site, so the two of them can hold hands and sing kumbaya with the rest of the brown nose, tree hugging left wingers over there.

[Wenatcheejay]

This is a cut and paste that might be worth reading you guys. These guys have been dealing with wolves and can give some insite to our future.

http://idahoptv.org/outdoors/shows/wolvesinidaho/unsworth.cfm

[billythekidrock]

to go view wolves in the wild would require a discovery pass which is $30
deer bear elk and cougar tag $79.20
Which is more money for the state?
Plus if someone would like to view wolves wouldnt they already be viewing wildlife and have a discovery pass?
Where are after the wolves wipe out the elk population and move onto others they will not sell tags for them.
https://fishhunt.dfw.wa.gov/ so you can check the prices yourself

Not a good arguement.
Hunting dollars are so small compared to other outdoor activies. Just look at how much money is brought in by birdwatchers.

[billythekidrock]

I'm a firm believer in allowing everyone to voice their opinion but I just checked this clowns posts since joining and its clear he is only on here to cause hate, discontent and stir the pot. I'm quite surprised the admin team has allowed him to spew his left wing, tree hugging rhetoric for this long.

 He has been asked repeatedly for facts and documentation yet only replies to posts where he can continue to stir the pot without contributing anything positive yet fly under the radar of the mods.

 I say send him packing with a link to that pinhead Cascades site, so the two of them can hold hands and sing kumbaya with the rest of the brown nose, tree hugging left wingers over there.

From what I have read, he has posted no more (or less) facts or proof than any of the members.