Is it ignorance, or not caring?

[7mmfan]

So I understand that when you go to a terminal area on any local rivers this time of year, there are going to be people. I also understand that when everyone is drift or float fishing, that it is hard for a guy, like myself, that likes to swing a fly with a spey rod to fish around them. I accept this and because of that, I will go to great lengths to find areas where there are little or no people fishing so that I don't get in anyones way.

Today however it seemed like guys were searching me out just to fish over me. Twice today I walked past groups of guys in prime water, chose to fish substandard stuff so as to not get in anyones way with my chosen tactic, just to have guys walk in short distances DOWNSTREAM of me and start fishing over my gear. Not a short distance downstream of my fly, but literally casting over my neon green can see it from outer space floating right on top of the water, fly line.

My dad raised me as a gear fisherman, i've caught close to 1000 steelhead on drift gear, float gear, and hardware. He also taught me that when you walk up to a run, if there is a guy already there, start upriver of him if you can, as he's probably working his way downstream, unless its an obvious shoulder to shoulder game. Its simple river etiquette. Thats when your using conventional tackle and can fish the water right in front of you. When you are swinging a fly, your not fishing the water in front of you, your fishing the water 30-60 feet downstream of you. So when a guy walks in 50' downstream of you and starts fishing, he is effectively cutting you off at the knees. He's standing in the water you are fishing. Now i'm not asking for the whole damn run, I just want someone to not start right on top of my stuff. Start upriver of me like your supposed to.

My ultimate question is, are these guys ignorant of the tactic I am using and simply don't understand it, or do they just not care, or a combination of both. I gave up a long time ago getting into pissing matches with guys over this stuff because no one ever wins, it just ruins both of your days. I just wish people would stop, observe, and think for a minute before they start fishing a run, and learn some damn river etiquette! Maybe I just need to quit complaining and  (its high enough already) and put my fly rod away.   

[Button Nubbs]

See my thread "a letter to you".

I honestly think people don't care.

[mallard79]

They don't care. The question is.....did you let them win by moving when they low holed you? I sometimes carry an extra reel filled with braid just for situations like you described. If the can't figure it out quick....they start loosing the tug of war and their gear cuz that aint what I am there to do. They usually don't stick around long. 

[7mmfan]

I don''t feel that I let him "win" by moving on. I've gotten into screaming matches with guys like this more than I like to think about. They never admit to being in the wrong and it never goes anywhere. I made a few more casts to get my point across and he just kept casting across my line. I read your post Button Nubbs and its frustrating because we love to pursue these fish. I'm not to the point where I will quit fishing, I will simply go find somewhere else to fish. I would rather fish all day by myself and not catch one than catch 10 surrounded by people who don't care. Whatever that was like, 15 hours ago, i'm over it and have moved on. See you on the river. I'll be the one with the 14' spey rod casting 3/4 way across the river cause its fun.

[Button Nubbs]

That spey stuff is bad ass. I always stop and watch guys doing it for a while whenever I see it.

[sebek556]

my grandpa used to say you can tell how good a fly fisherman is by how many knotches he has in his ears..

[FC]

7mmfan, I've had more than one guy get right upriver within 50' or less of me and promptly start casting straight out into the current and then longlining in front of me. The straight cast means that he will be on top of the water the whole way down and snag my stuff somewhere near 50% of the time. I rarely fish for summer steelhead anymore as I just end up pissed most trips.

The rudest guy I ever saw was at Hoodsport while fishing for chums, it was my little brother's first time fishing for salmon. He was wearing knee boots so I kept him off to the side and taught him how to fish it, some guy walks up and casts right over his ROD and then just starts fishing while holding his rod at about 90 degrees to my little bro and only 6 inches over the top of it! His rod was crossing my brother's about a foot ahead of the reel seat, I had never seen anything like that in my life and pointed it out to the guy only for him to start mouthing off about how I was in the wrong! I was completely blown away! The guy actually repeated the same cast and I gave up and told him to crank up and GTFO of there before we found out how long he could hold his breath underwater...Not my finest moment maybe but he did go away.

If people are being jerks you should probably let them know (quietly), they might not understand that they are crowding you and you can at least try and educate them. If they don't want to move you can always go somewhere else and hopefully not be pissed since you didn't get into a screaming match.

[Bigshooter]

I just think of it as part of fishing anymore. It sucks but it's true.

[rtspring]

people just don't give a *censored* anymore..   it is in all aspects of life not just fishing.

[netcoyote]

Stuff like this is why I gave up river fishing years ago. If I have a need to be around stupid, obnoxious A-holes, I just put in an extra day at work.

[ICEMAN]

    Nothing worse than running into this crap while fishing. I have no idea how to avoid it other than start fishing for something nobody else wants to.... Or take a fishing vacation elsewhere...
 
Sometimes I think that this world could use a good ol' fashioned pandemic to help thin the herd....

[Button Nubbs]

Wow, I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way anymore. I was starting to think that was the way steelheading/any fishing should be.

[Rhinoron247]

   
Sometimes I think that this world could use a good ol' fashioned pandemic to help thin the herd....

Especially if "Character and integrity" were the only vaccines! 

[singleshot12]

I still remember the stress free good old days. Unfortunately Most salmon or steelhead hot spots are now a "combat fishery" these days.

Because of these bubble fisheries fishermen have to resort to being clustered in one small area. So it comes down to a competative, not caring, me me mentality to catch a fish. Too bad it has come to this.

[rasbo]

not only fishing but hunting also,the masses gather and make a mess of some great places,I no longer fish the rivers unless I'm in a boat,all my haunts have become garbage dumps full of inconsiderate people that call themselves sportsman...Gone are the days folks.its a me society where few have any scruples left ,sad indeed

[xd2005]

I wouldn't put it past ignorance. I'm sure there are a number of people like me that didn't grow up hunting or doing that type of fishing. From my perspective, "getting in" to these sports can be difficult. Not only do you have to learn the skills but also the etiquette. Finding good teachers/mentors is not always easy and it's sometimes difficult to know if you are learning true etiquette or not from that person.

With that said, if I had been that person and someone came to me and let me know what I was doing, I would express my ignorance, apologize profusely, and make them go back to their spot while I moved along. I'm sure there are others just like me that probably don't even realize what they are doing and until they are told will continue to not know.

[pianoman9701]

I think sometimes they don't care, but sometimes are just ignorant of common courtesies that the rest of us take for granted.

I agree with FC that you talk with them about it. If they truly don't know, they'll move away. If they're a$$hats, then you just have to accept that's what they are and move on yourself. It doesn't make for the fun that you expect when you leave 1st thing in the morning.

[BigGoonTuna]

people just don't give a *censored* anymore..   it is in all aspects of life not just fishing.

when i started out, you pulled something like that and you'd hear about it from the other guy.  you don't hear much on-river etiquette talks any more...you're more likely to hear the drunk dipstick who just made a cast over your line ranting at you for getting in his way!

everyone packs into spots like sardines any more, not just the old terminal zones like blue creek(which interestingly enough, has had many places surpass it in the crowded clusterf*ck category, like the skokomish and mouth of the toutle, yet it's still the standard for comparison).

river restrictions being tightened, access being lost, and the internet making reports available for any slob to glean information from(face it, the guys chasing reports tend to be the kind that stumble into your spot at daybreak toting a case of busch lite, ask you what river it is, and then starts casting of your gear and trying to snag fish) have all led to the "i got mine, screw you" mentality.

[Skillet]

We had a guy tailpiping us real bad when we were fishing for Lings a couple of weeks ago.  There were no other boats on our rock, but as soon as we got he net out he was right on top of us.  I"m usually pretty good about keeping that kind of thing in perspective, so when we moved to another place after a bit and let him have the rock, I figured no sweat.  Not 2 minutes after we kill the motor, there he is, dropping in just down current from us in our new hole.  50 feet away, tops.  I couldn't help it this time and said pretty loud-

"Hey, big F-ing ocean, ain't it?!?"

[Ripper]

People suck! Plain and simple, wether it be ignorance or not. Last time I was out sturgeon fishing in Port Susan, where there is litterally 5 square miles to fish, these two guys pull up and drop anchor right on top of my bait. I yelled hey you're on top my gear. They grumbled something and pulled up, moved about 25 feet and dropped anchor again, then cast over my line towards me. I reeled in and recast putting it right beside their boat and promptly hooked an oversize fish. I couldn't have scripted it better. A little later they motored right behind my boat, over our gear and anchored on the other side of me, between me and another boat that had just caught a fish. They never did catch anything, but between myself and the other boat out there we hooked 4 fish. Clueless or a__holes? Doesn't matter, they suck!

[BOWHUNTER45]

good job ripper !!

[FC]

I reeled in and recast putting it right beside their boat and promptly hooked an oversize fish. I couldn't have scripted it better.

A little bit of poetic justice there  nicely done!

[Bullkllr]

Rudeness AND ignorance.

I believe the proliferation of terminal fisheries has spawned a generation of new "fishermen" who honestly think that's the way it's supposed to be. All they know is Blue Creek, or the Skok, etc. And if it's fine there, they why not anywhere else?

Really, its a big problem; I don't see it changing anytime soon. Some of these guys need to "start over" with an ethics manual and no reliance on terminal hatchery areas to depend on.

[sakoshooter]

It's not just the rivers. Lakes can be good places to meet jerks also. I have to admit though that I do not know how you guys can fish that close together and still say you're having fun. I prefer a quality trip to a quantity trip any day. I always let the jerk know he's  jerk also. They need to be told. It might not help you at the time but it might help the next situation.

[longknife]

If the people have fished in the same area before you, and they know its good fishin' why be an a$$hat yourself, and yell at others on the water??

I understand the river thing, but there are PLENTY rocks for lings, and open areas for sturgeon in the warm beach area! I understand you were the first one there, but thats what makes a day of fishing fun, to out fish the others on the water.

If your first to arrive, that should be your area, but its a sport, dont claim it! It has been claimed by others in the past, that let you in.
That river thats close(wont say any names) theres only a couple "hot spots", and boats stack in like crazy! Its moving, and catching to show them up, thats the prize! Adapt and overcome the situation.

Dont get me wrong, i will fish the SAMMISH for ch#@$t sake. Everyone wants the same thing, bite your lip, and out fish them.
 

[Ripper]

I wasn't claiming that spot as my own, there were 3 boats fishing the area. They just anchored right on top my gear. With so much area there is no reason to crowd. You shouldn't be in casting distance of each other unless you're on a river hog lining. When on a lake or out in Port Susan, show some courtesy and spread out, don't run over other peoples gear. I've been fishing out there with up to a dozen other boats all in the same area. Most all were respectful with each other and gave each other space. We chat back and forth, joke and swap whats working. Then there is always someone that pulls up right in the hole where everyone is fishing and causes hate and discontent. That's who I'm talking about.

[longknife]

Yes, understandable!
Have had other boats in the river within 4' of my boat, and anchor. Everyone is out to have a good day, and have fun catching fish. We all love the sport, just no reason for yelling at eachother on the water.

Im just saying if you are a new guy/gal, and dont know, the one yelling is the a$$hat to them. Its nothing that can be taught by screaming at someone for their first couple times out. I think asking is a huge part to newbies! If they would ask, or be respectfull, i would give a spot up, just to see the expressoin on their face when they hook up. Never met one yet!

I used to get pissed off, and yell, but now, i just shake my head, and move on.

[chongo469]

Longknife, Yes we all love the sport,but for those that need to learn respect and not crowding someone, I feel the need to teach them....I am not talking about the "Ditch" or places like reiter.....I am more talking about when you have 100-200 yrds between you and the next guy and some *censored* has to come climb in your pocket....Or when you have been in a spot for an hour and some guy who woke up late has to push his way in between you and your buddy who were only 15 ft apart to begin with.....I just start preaching the gospel to them and tell them the the rapture is upon them.....How GOD will punish them for spending so much money on expensive gear when they could have shopped at Walmart and put the rest of there money in the collection plate......No I am not religious at all, but it normally chases them out pretty fast....

[buckhorn2]

Was up the chelais and the only boat we were fishing blue slew when and idian gillnetter came up the river and went over to the bank and tied his net and layed his net all the way around our boat and went in the cabin. We had a hard time getting our anchor out from under the net. There used to be lots of sturgeon and sturgeon fisherman now just nets and hardley any sturgeon.

[longknife]

I am all for edjucating, but when you start yelling, and swearing and a couple little heads pop up, its just not rite!

i think we all are better than that...

[7mmfan]

So redemption and the realization that I'm not the only one fishing that feels this way. Was fishing the other day, avoided the areas that I felt would have the most pressure to keep from having to post another rant. I was standing in the middle of the run I'd been fishing by myself for last 20 minutes when a guy stepped out of the woods below me. Instantly I assumed he was preparing to waltz out into the river and begin fishing over my line.

Too my surprise, he started walking up the bank towards me. He asked how I'd done and if I'd been fishing much. We talked a little bit and he ASKED if it would be ok if he started fishing up above me. No problem man have at it. I finished swinging the run and on my way by I told him to have a good one. He stopped me and asked about fly fishing with a spey rod. I gave him a demo and little instruction, 5 minutes later he's casting 70 feet and low and behold, he gets throttled about 3/4 the way through the swing. It didn't hook up but I think it hooked him.

I didn't catch anything that day but it was nice to feel a little respect and camaraderie and see a new guys eyes light up when that steelhead tried to yank the rod out of his hand.

Heading out again tonight for an hour or two. Something about skating a dry fly in the waning light that puts a guys soul at ease...

[Ripper]

When I made my earlier post about yelling at the guys for anchoring on my gear, I only said hey you're on my gear. I never said anything about swearing at them, I just said you're on my gear. No, I try to be courteous even when I'm not happy with people. Not that I've never been an a** hat, but I try not to be. I go out of my way to show respect for my fellow sportsman and women. My 11 yo son is usually with me so I keep the profanity to a minimum.

[JimmyHoffa]

I think it is more 'not caring'. The seasons/limits/access makes it to where it is basically a competition for many.  I think most know it's not the best display of ethics/behavior but at the end of the day they WANT fish.  For things like fishing and duck hunting, people seem to be a magnet for other people.  I can recall many times out on the ocean having people pull up 20 yards away and start fishing, and the worst was when divers would pull up right next to you and splash where you were fishing.  For quite a few, the fish (not the fishing) is what justifies the expense of license, boat, fuel, tackle, etc.

[singleshot12]

It's the ignorant ones and the not caring ones that create the yelling A-hole ones!  Damn that doesn't leave too many ethical ones in the mix 

[CAMPMEAT]

If it were me, I'd reel in and walk 50' past him and do what he did to you. Then if he said anything, I'd tell him , " You cut me off about 60' short where my line was, you were casting over my line ! ". Then, if he said anything, I'd let him know what he did was wrong. But I'd tell him in a "prickish " tone.