Dangerous Precedent- DNR Gives Gate Keys To Tribes for Bear Hunting, What's Next

[MtnMuley]

This type of tribal bear hunting has been going on for quite some time now.  All the more reason WDFW management is horses*#t.  It makes you wonder what's next, as they can pull this crap and fly by with it.   

Is it the Colville's you are referring too? I am aware the Colville's can hunt the north half but that is a different situation, the Colville's reserved hunting rights on the north half and I do not have issue with that. This situation in western Washington I am told is different.

I am referring to the westside.  There are other members here that are also very aware of this, that know a lot more details about it than me.

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

Well, I for one am going to ask why there is not more opportunity for bear hunting, if there is soo much damage, DNR is after all STATE LAND.
director@dfw.wa.gov;
 publicaffairs@dfw.wa.gov
wildthing@dfw.wa.gov
 scott.brummer@dfw.wa.gov
dont forget Donny Martorello

Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife

donny.martorello@dfw.wa.gov  he is the guy in charge in Western Washington, when it comes to bears and the Spring hunts.

[PlateauNDN]

Well first off unless they are hunting on Tribal lands ( reservation) they should be required to hunt in accordance with the laws that apply to the general public. Dates, Times, Weapons, and ALL restrictions.  Second If they are supposedly hunting on Historic hunting grounds then they must use the weapons that they used during the same time period in history.

Thank you for the comment and if I may respond?  To answer your first question about hunting on Tribal Lands in accordance with the Treaty of 1855 with the 14 Confederated Tribes and Bands of the Yakama Nation (Not referring to any other Tribe but the Yakama) was granted lands that stretched from the edge of Mt. Rainier east to present day Pasco north to Lake Chelan and south to the Columbia River. 

I attached a map below outlining the original land base held by the Yakama Nation until it was Ceded by the US Government and declared open and unclaimed land by the then Governor of Washington and we were left with what is now the current Reservation.  If the US Govt. had held true to their word then our Reservation would cover nearly half the State and be one of the largest Reservations in the Nation. 

Things happened in the past that you nor I can do anything about and we are here dealing with the aftermath and making the best of it.  It has been said here before many times and I'm going to repeat it again.  If you want to blame somebody, then blame the Govt.  Don't blame the "Indian" for exercising their rights granted by the US Govt. 

I'm pretty sure the Muckleshoot Tribe did not approach the State DNR and say you have a bear problem and we want to fix it.  According to what I have read on here it was the other way around.  The Muckleshoot were presented with an opportunity and they took it.  Anybody presented with this type of opportunity would jump on it as well.  If they opened it up as to more tags or longer season then there would be more hunters applying for them and the State could've made more money on it but, it did not happen that way and this just happens to be the way it played out. 

Who would be to blame?  It sounds like to me the State DNR would be the ones to blame not the "Indians" so why continue to bash and blame the "Indian." 

There are a lot of great ideas on how to best approach this issue and by all means why not try and correct a wrong?  If you need to get involved politically and push out the politicians or change somebody who is in a position to make these types of decisions within the State DNR then why not do something about it. 

If you want to enact change then don't sit around complaining about it and get up and do something about it.  I do everyday, if I don't like something then I'm going to say something and try and find a solution to the problem.  I'm not a person to take a licking and just lie down.  I have proven that time and time again by helping my fellow citizen not just "Indian."  I have been a public servant since I graduated high school and I enjoy everyday of it and will continue to serve the people in whatever arena I take on next.

I thank everybody for your comments and if you should have any questions please feel free to contact me at anytime. 

[dreamingbig]

"Anybody presented with this type of opportunity would jump on it as well.  If they opened it up as to more tags or longer season then there would be more hunters applying for them and the State could've made more money on it but, it did not happen that way and this just happens to be the way it played out."

I agree.  Which is why it was the wrong way to solve the problem.  The Native Americans hit a grand slam with the rights they were granted in the court decision and are taking advantage of a thing that the rest of us can only dream of!

[Elkaholic daWg]

There are 3 ways to affect change. Time, $$$, and Vote... You can spend your free time many ways but working toward your end goal. Vote! Get involved in politics If you don't care why should they? $$$ I think this is the most important way a single person can affect change. Lets face it, $$$ is the one equalizing factor because EVERYONE cares about it, and we don't have to convince someone else what to do with our money...

I give my time to my archery club Silver Arrow Bowmen in Mt Vernon and Pimp it every chance i get...
I don't vote for Jag-offs that don't use their noodle when making simple decisions that affect me.
I DON"T BUY FISHING LIC and vote my wallet. I hate the way the state runs fishing and have been treated badly so guess what? I DON'T FISH and gave my girl a bow instead of a pole.

The state can ignore my time and effort to convince them to do the right thing.
The state can count illegal votes and make end runs around my informed votes.
The State can TRY and bilk me for extra $$$ but it much harder... They need my money too and when enough other outdoors-men decide to quite or spend less, eventually someone will have to listen. 

WELL STATED!!!!
 It's too bad that hunters seem to be the easiest group to splinter apart and get many to do what Bearpaws signature warns of. So I see   all sticking together on voting with their wallets as dreaming

[pianoman9701]

Likewise, it amazes me when we're so quick to jump on each other, native or not, because of laws that none of us had anything to do with passing. Laws are the responsibility of the legislature and the voting public. We are all here at HW because we love to hunt and kill wild things, and are most at home in wild places. It would be nice to see anger and accusation pointed in the right direction - at the politicians and rule makers.

[PlateauNDN]

"Anybody presented with this type of opportunity would jump on it as well.  If they opened it up as to more tags or longer season then there would be more hunters applying for them and the State could've made more money on it but, it did not happen that way and this just happens to be the way it played out."

I agree.  Which is why it was the wrong way to solve the problem.  The Native Americans hit a grand slam with the rights they were granted in the court decision and are taking advantage of a thing that the rest of us can only dream of!

I'm sorry but maybe you're confused?  The Native Americans were not granted anything through a court decision it was granted by and enacted by Congress and the Presidents' of the United States.  Court decisions from thereafter were only to enforce what was promised by the US Govt. within the Treaties. 

I know some "Indians" abuse their rights but I'm not one of them and when the time comes I'm going to fix things.  I exercise my rights in accordance with the Treaty and will continue to do so for as long as I can still walk and breath.  My ancestors fought and died for these rights and I will practice my traditions and pass them along to my children and in the hopes that they do the same for future generations to come.  If I and others like myself don't try and save what's left of our culture then who will? 

Our Elders across Indian Country are passing away at a rate of almost one a day and they are taking their knowledge and history with them.  Not many young people take their hertige serious and if they don't grasp what's left then they will have no identity.

I not only have a responsibility of teaching my children but also quite a few of my nephews and nieces because their own parent or parents have not chosen to learn and have chosen to wait very long to want to learn or teach their children.

If there are any questions please don't hesitate to ask.

[tlbradford]

The major problem that will happen that is going to piss off hunters beyond the initial bear problem, is access to these same lands so indians can go in and slaughter the deer and elk as well.

An executive order can be issued by the governor allowing whatever the hell she wants as far as hunting rights.  There can be an emergency hunt allowed by executive order, that could allow baiting and hound hunting.

Multiple avenues could be explored to combat the problem but the apologist in our government who have their hand out during election time for campaign donations are bending over the general public again, and handing crap over to a special interest group.

Before anyone says that it is legal, and that I would jump on this as well if it was offered to me, just save it.  Legality has nothing to do with this.  It is the welfare nation that tribes have become accepting anything and everything that the government will give them.  It is a nation that is not part of the United States asking for handouts.  It is a race asking for special privileges and receiving them undeservedly.

To try to shift the blame completely away from thesetribes is unfair and misdirected.  Pressure needs to be put on the lawmakers and the special interest groups equally.

[pianoman9701]

TL, it's our government who made the deals. Your anger is misdirected. The tribes have been given rights in exchange for giving up their stuff. If you don't like it, go to your US senators and representatives and see who'll put a bill forth to change the treaties.

In the meantime, many tribal members are also members of this site. Suggesting that all their people are a welfare state and that they're all there with their hands out for Government gimmes is over-simplification, inaccurate, and insulting, especially to those who practice fair chase and don't go out to "slaughter deer and elk". All of the people on this site are hunters and deserving of the courtesy we should be showing each other. All of us have common ground and want to see certain issues resolved in a way that benefits hunters. Dividing us hunters as a group, into smaller groups is foolhardy. Singling out Natives in here will accomplish nothing positive for our future as a group which advocates for hunting and the outdoor lifestyle. My 

[PlateauNDN]

The major problem that will happen that is going to piss off hunters beyond the initial bear problem, is access to these same lands so indians can go in and slaughter the deer and elk as well.

An executive order can be issued by the governor allowing whatever the hell she wants as far as hunting rights.  There can be an emergency hunt allowed by executive order, that could allow baiting and hound hunting.

Multiple avenues could be explored to combat the problem but the apologist in our government who have their hand out during election time for campaign donations are bending over the general public again, and handing crap over to a special interest group.

Before anyone says that it is legal, and that I would jump on this as well if it was offered to me, just save it.  Legality has nothing to do with this.  It is the welfare nation that tribes have become accepting anything and everything that the government will give them.  It is a nation that is not part of the United States asking for handouts.  It is a race asking for special privileges and receiving them undeservedly.

To try to shift the blame completely away from thesetribes is unfair and misdirected.  Pressure needs to be put on the lawmakers and the special interest groups equally.

Great response and some of what you said is true.  Yes, multiple avenues could've been explored and there are certain executive orders that could've been issued but they weren't and that (in any other word would not do it justice) sucks.  I don't know what occured in the past but I have some ideas floating around in my head but, your take on Natives has been tarnished and it's pretty obvious nothing I nor anybody else can say or do will ever change your mind. 

I have not once tried shifting blame nor spoken for anybody but myself.  My words and opinions are mine and mine alone. 

If the Muckleshoot go in and "slaughter" deer and elk without permission and are not in their right to, then yes, it's poaching and should be reported.  If the land was not theirs and they have no rights to it then by all means enforce the law and prosecute them.

Just because you think it's not legal doesn't mean it isn't legal.  If they have rights to the land and the State DNR did what it did then the Muckleshoot are Legal to proceed with what they are doing by Federal Standards.  The State is not above Federal and the Tribes are not above Federal either.  It might not be right or fair to others but it's still Legal.

I've had this debate before and I don't mind having it again.  If you're going to dislike a group dislike individuals not the entire group.  I'm not, nor have I ever been, nor will I ever be on Welfare.  The only handout I except is the 100.00 dollar per capita I get every month from the Tribe.  I have worked since I graduated high school and my wife works as well.  I push my children to be highly educated and excel at everything they do.

If your idea of me is some drunk, no job and collecting welfare "Indian" then you're sadly wrong.  I've said it before and I'll say it again direct your frustrations at individuals not at groups.  If you're upset at what has transpired then contact your local State Lawmaker and do something about it. 

"It is a nation that is not part of the United States asking for handouts.  It is a race asking for special privileges and receiving them undeservedly."

This statement pretty much sums it up.  The original thinking of the Former Presidents' and Congress was to separate Tribes from the United States and its American citizens.  We as Tribes were not considered American Citizens then and it's pretty obvious we are not considered Citizens now by some people.  I don't ask for anything I don't deserve and I will continue to fight for it as long as I'm still alive.

I nor did my ancestors ASK for special privileges the US Govt. gave them to the Tribes when they made the Treaties so the "Indian" would stay away from the American Citizens. 

As for undeserving, if this Great Nation of ours said Citizenship shall be granted only to those that have elected to serve then punch my ticket because I've served my Country have you?  I earned the right to call myself a Marine and Citizen of this Great Nation when I marched across the Parade Deck at MCRD San Diego have you?  I fly Old Glory and the Marine Corps Flag high with pride everyday. 

I pray everyday my children will make the same choice I did and serve so they can say the got everything they deserve so that way when somebody tells them they don't deserve what their getting they can say "Yes I do!"   
 
I keep myself professional and on duty all the time in case of emergencies or my services are needed and that's by choice not mandate.  When performing my job duties I don't see the color of ones skin or the ethnic background at which they came from.  I serve the general public and I do everything I can to serve them well.

[dreamingbig]

PlateauNDN,

I was referring to the Boldt decision that greatly changed the landscape of hunting rights.  There are a lot of ways to interpret the treaty.  Weapons have changed since the treaty was signed, habitat for animals have declined since the treaty was signed, and the population has increased since the treaty was signed.  If Native Americans were to look at the treaty with a fair eye they would agree that the environment it was meant for is not the environment we have today. Sure you have a legal right to continue to harvest in the amounts and numbers that you do but the rest of the state's citizens has restricted access to accomodate this right.  Sportsmen get jealous when the herds they pay money for to manage are being overharvested out from underneathe them.

That is where I was coming from.

[Special T]

Plataue, Thank you for having a thick skin and broad shoulders, You do you fellow tribesmen and country men a service.
Do you know of any book(s) that talk about the treaty process in Wa state? If you do not, i think a book of the facts would be very informative...

There is a saying in the Business world that i think applies here. "The sweetness of a low price is long lost by bitterness of poor service."  We have been poory served by some of our politicains. Some choices that were made so long ago it does little good to complain... The poor choices by our current politicains will affect our future so now is when we must act.
Call upon your representatives, and make sure you support those that make good decisions and Fire those who do not. 

[tlbradford]

I am not arguing the legality of what is being done.  It is clearly legal.  I am arguing the ethics of the situation which I view to be unjust.  I will post a rebuttal to the two responders when I have a little more time.  I appreciate the input and level-headedness of the tribal members who post good arguements and that work to bridge the gap between tribal and non-tribal hunters.  That being said, I don't see a change occuring anytime soon that will bridge that gap.  I don't see how the topic at hand does anything to bridge that gap.  I don't see tribes policing their own non-ethical members that will bridge that gap.  I made a statement that is meant to challenge and it is something I will defend later.

[boneaddict]

I haven't read anything on this lately but this.  WOW.  That is profound in many aspects.....Impressed

There is a saying in the Business world that i think applies here. "The sweetness of a low price is long lost by bitterness of poor service."  We have been poory served by some of our politicains. Some choices that were made so long ago it does little good to complain... The poor choices by our current politicains will affect our future so now is when we must act.
Call upon your representatives, and make sure you support those that make good decisions and Fire those who do not.   

[bobcat]

Who would be to blame?  It sounds like to me the State DNR would be the ones to blame not the "Indians" so why continue to bash and blame the "Indian."

I would not blame the DNR for this. I would blame the DFW- they are the ones who could have issued special hunt permits for this area, but they did not. Hopefully they will get an earful from hunters due to this injustice and perhaps next year we will have an additional GMU, or maybe more, with spring bear permits.