If you have a bolt gun, or in may case a savage model 24 22lr 20 ga over under, I think the Agulara 22 sub sonics are good. they make one that is 60 grains that penetrates 12in of balistic gell @ 100 yards... they are a 22short brass made to normal length with lead... they are awsome, but dropp much faster than normal 22lr.