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Author Topic: Mass vs. Velocity?  (Read 17295 times)

Offline andersonjk4

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Mass vs. Velocity?
« on: July 27, 2011, 11:43:57 AM »
I've been contemplating this question for quite awhile.  But after reading an article in this month’s Outdoor Life, "Bum Luck in Paradise", where Andrew Mckean writes about the .257 Weatherby Mag possibly being the best western big game caliber (on his hunt in Utah he is shooting 140 grain bullets at around 4000 fps for elk).  This really got me thinking which really is better, mass or velocity?  I have previously leaned more toward the "the bigger the animal the heavier the bullet should be" group.  I shoot a .30-06 for both deer and elk.  I have been shooting 165 grain bullets for both species because I usually don't have time to re-sight in my rifle between deer and elk season so I figured the 165 grain was a fair compromise for both species.  This year I have been contemplating on going to a lighter bullet for deer (140 or 150 grains) and heavier bullet for elk (175 or 180 grain).  But after reading this article it’s got me thinking about bullet weight and velocity.  I know this is a very subjective question that really depends on the area you hunt and the rifle you are shooting, so to give a little perspective on my situation: I hunt elk in the Blues, where I would say that 70% of time I am looking at 200yd + shots.  So what are your preferences on bullet velocity vs. bullet mass?   

Offline Bean Counter

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Re: Mass vs. Velocity?
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2011, 12:10:39 PM »
I have typically used 150 grain for deer in my .30-06 and done a  quick resight for same bullet & manufacturer to 180 for elk season. I have slowly been evolving to 180 grain and I think going forward I'm going to use that exclusively for both deer and elk. Just easier keeping one inventory.

BTW, I shoot el-cheapo Federal Power Shoks. If you go to their website and use the comparison feature you'll note very little change in trajectory from 150 to 180 grain. With both zeroed at 200 yards, there is a 0.3" difference at 100 yards, -0.8" at 300, and -1.8" at 400 yards.

Offline Huntbear

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Re: Mass vs. Velocity?
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2011, 01:44:11 PM »
For elk, I shoot the .338 WM.  My go to load has been 210 gr. Nosler Partitions loaded to 2950 fps.  This is kind of the best of both worlds imho,  mass and velocity. 

For deer it varies for me.. brush country it is a .308 or 7mm-08 for short to med. length shots using 140-165 gr. bullets.  For open country, I want med. sized bullets shooting fast and flat, so I go to my .257 A.I.  Pushing 115-120 gr. bullets at 3000 fps or better.  That being said, if I was going after monster muley, it would be my .338 WM all the way..  Anchor em fast and furious.
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Offline rtspring

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Re: Mass vs. Velocity?
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2011, 02:16:39 PM »
This topic will never die and always be argued from now to who knows when. I did alot of research on guns, bullets and such back before I bought my last rifle in 2004. I wanted a rifle that I could hunt anything in this state with and be able to do it at 500 yds if needed, without much effort and thought into ballisitics of the cartridge.

Like someones quote on their post one here says, A rifle is only as good as the person who is shooting it.

I shoot a 300 RUM and shoot 180 Scirrocco's out of it. I dont get all fancy and play with reloading stuff, I buy the same bullets and shoot it every once in a while. I think the most important thing in todays rifle's capability is the shooters confidence in putting a bullet down range and knowing in his or her mind that the equipment is capable of the shot and so is the shooter.

I have not missed yet with this rifle, and each time I pull up on any game I know almost for certain that all of my homework will pay off with a hard hitting ethical kill shot.
I kill elk and eat elk, when I'm not, I'm thinking about killing elk and eating elk.

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Offline True Sportsman

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Re: Mass vs. Velocity?
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2011, 02:58:45 PM »
I've been contemplating this question for quite awhile.  But after reading an article in this month’s Outdoor Life, "Bum Luck in Paradise", where Andrew Mckean writes about the .257 Weatherby Mag possibly being the best western big game caliber (on his hunt in Utah he is shooting 140 grain bullets at around 4000 fps for elk).  This really got me thinking which really is better, mass or velocity?  I have previously leaned more toward the "the bigger the animal the heavier the bullet should be" group.  I shoot a .30-06 for both deer and elk.  I have been shooting 165 grain bullets for both species because I usually don't have time to re-sight in my rifle between deer and elk season so I figured the 165 grain was a fair compromise for both species.  This year I have been contemplating on going to a lighter bullet for deer (140 or 150 grains) and heavier bullet for elk (175 or 180 grain).  But after reading this article it’s got me thinking about bullet weight and velocity.  I know this is a very subjective question that really depends on the area you hunt and the rifle you are shooting, so to give a little perspective on my situation: I hunt elk in the Blues, where I would say that 70% of time I am looking at 200yd + shots.  So what are your preferences on bullet velocity vs. bullet mass?

Your figures are a little off. No .257 Weatherby will shoot a 140 grain bullet at 4000fps. If i remember correctly, 85 grain bullets are only going 3700? Someone will have to chime in on this...


Offline Kowsrule30

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Re: Mass vs. Velocity?
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2011, 04:47:41 PM »
I'll take a flatter trajectory over a heavier bullet in a rifle..... Not a ML... But what do I know.... I grew up with a .243 shooting 100 gr light mags from Hornady BTSP and have killed everything with one shot rabbits, yotes, deer, elk, and bear with it.... Hell my buddy used it on a moose tag in WA when he fell and broke his scope on an 06..... One shot and it fell over..... But I'm an accuracy and trajectory guy....   

Offline BOWHUNTER45

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Re: Mass vs. Velocity?
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2011, 05:24:19 PM »
I always loved the smaller cal. but one elk and bear I want a bullet that holds together when it hits ...like a hornaday bullet ..a little heavier than if I was just shooting deer... I to grew up with a .243 / 25-06 & a .270 but I must say the last bear I killed with my 300 WSM and a 180 gr hornaday seriously spanked him so now I KINDS LIKE THAT 300 SHORT MAG  :tup:

Offline dontgetcrabs

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Re: Mass vs. Velocity?
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2011, 05:25:43 PM »
I've been contemplating this question for quite awhile.  But after reading an article in this month’s Outdoor Life, "Bum Luck in Paradise", where Andrew Mckean writes about the .257 Weatherby Mag possibly being the best western big game caliber (on his hunt in Utah he is shooting 140 grain bullets at around 4000 fps for elk).  This really got me thinking which really is better, mass or velocity?  I have previously leaned more toward the "the bigger the animal the heavier the bullet should be" group.  I shoot a .30-06 for both deer and elk.  I have been shooting 165 grain bullets for both species because I usually don't have time to re-sight in my rifle between deer and elk season so I figured the 165 grain was a fair compromise for both species.  This year I have been contemplating on going to a lighter bullet for deer (140 or 150 grains) and heavier bullet for elk (175 or 180 grain).  But after reading this article it’s got me thinking about bullet weight and velocity.  I know this is a very subjective question that really depends on the area you hunt and the rifle you are shooting, so to give a little perspective on my situation: I hunt elk in the Blues, where I would say that 70% of time I am looking at 200yd + shots.  So what are your preferences on bullet velocity vs. bullet mass?

Your figures are a little off. No .257 Weatherby will shoot a 140 grain bullet at 4000fps. If i remember correctly, 85 grain bullets are only going 3700? Someone will have to chime in on this...




As far as I know you can't get a .257 bullet heavier than 125 gr. and the max fps in a Roy with that bullet would be around 3300.  :sry:


When I was younger I bought into the speed is king thing and as I've aged I have turned more to the heavy hard hitting school of thought. Maybe it makes me feel better to be hunting with something I can relate to... Big Fat Things Going Slow.    :chuckle:

Offline Alan K

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Re: Mass vs. Velocity?
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2011, 05:35:27 PM »
Shoot a caliber that gets a heavy bullet moving 3000+ and you don't have to worry about choosing between mass and velocity!

Offline TheHunt

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Re: Mass vs. Velocity?
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2011, 06:29:32 PM »
168 grain berger flys well from the Remington 7 mm Mag and has the killing power at longer distances.


But a 250 grain match king out of a 338 will knock the brown right out of a deer at a long distance as well.  Just from my little knowledge that the heaver 250 grain bullet requires less wind doping then the 168 grain bullet.

 
275 down 2

Offline predator guy

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Re: Mass vs. Velocity?
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2011, 07:01:18 PM »
This topic will never die and always be argued from now to who knows when. I did alot of research on guns, bullets and such back before I bought my last rifle in 2004. I wanted a rifle that I could hunt anything in this state with and be able to do it at 500 yds if needed, without much effort and thought into ballisitics of the cartridge.

Like someones quote on their post one here says, A rifle is only as good as the person who is shooting it.

I shoot a 300 RUM and shoot 180 Scirrocco's out of it. I dont get all fancy and play with reloading stuff, I buy the same bullets and shoot it every once in a while. I think the most important thing in todays rifle's capability is the shooters confidence in putting a bullet down range and knowing in his or her mind that the equipment is capable of the shot and so is the shooter.

I have not missed yet with this rifle, and each time I pull up on any game I know almost for certain that all of my homework will pay off with a hard hitting ethical kill shot.
My Dad has one, my Brother has one, I don't but I have seen first hand what this caliber does. It's more impressive at longer range shots. I have seen an Antelope nearly gutted at 730 yards using those Scirroco's. Very impressive.

Offline throttlejocky20

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Re: Mass vs. Velocity?
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2011, 09:43:06 AM »
Its all about the hitting power for me.
Remember that buck is climbing that Mt. every day!

Offline BULLBLASTER

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Re: Mass vs. Velocity?
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2011, 11:19:49 AM »
I am working a couple different loads for my 300 rum right now. 210 grain Berger just shy of 2900 and a 200 grain accubond should be around 2950 or so. I haven't hunted with it yet but will this year.

Offline whacker1

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Re: Mass vs. Velocity?
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2011, 11:46:52 AM »
I have always errored on the side of what shoots the best.

The common bullets for my .270 are 130, 140, or 150 grain bullets.  I couldn't get the 150's to shoot very well.  The 130's shot pretty good, but the 140's are by far the most accurate, so that is what I selected.  With knowing that it shoots the best that I can get it to shoot, I feel the most confident in my shot placement.

I have a 300 RUM, and right now I am shooting the 168 grain bergers, because that is what shoots the best.  I have tried heavier ones, but haven't found a combination to my liking just yet in the heavier bullets

If they are all equally as accurate then I would likely take the heaviest bullet in that class, and learn the balistics as best possible, and shoot it a lot. 

Offline steen

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Re: Mass vs. Velocity?
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2011, 02:12:17 PM »
I have been using 180 gr. in my 300 win. mag. since my elk hunt in 09, mostly because I can keep track of my balistics easier.  I will probably go back to 165 or 150 for deer just to save money and keep the 180's for elk hunting.  Shooting my blacktail with the 180 grain made no difference to me for shock power but I like to shoot tight behind the shoulder to get as much meat as I can, therefore he ran 50 to 75 yds anyway.  Just my  :twocents:

 


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