673 Williams Creek

[archerE]

Does anyone know about gate closures in Williams Creek? I heard about closures near Pe Ell. I hunted 673 about 4yrs ago. This year I got stuck hunting by myself. (My hunting partner drew Margaret). Hoping that I can still get in near Jorgenson Slough (with a discover pass), it is all DNR near there. I tried to call Weyerhauser security today but didn't get through. I think that I am going to make a trip down there on Sat. 

[micdude]

 This might be helpful

http://www.weyerhaeuser.com/pdfs/businesses/recreationalaccess/Pe%20Ell%20-%20Weyerhaeuser%20Recreational%20Access%20Guidelines.pdf

[hunter_sean08]

I've heard that access in the Williams Creek Unit is still pretty open. Hancock Timber bought a bunch of land, but I'm not sure if they've gated all of it. I know that they gate some of their land back in on the Nemah way up the E-Line. Weyerhaeuser is getting more stingy about camping though for sure. It's the Willapa Hills Unit that is getting more and more restricted these days. Rayonier turning those Salmon Creek and Fossil Creek parcels into permit only zones really did a number on some of the access in the area.

[slim9300]

I've heard that access in the Williams Creek Unit is still pretty open. Hancock Timber bought a bunch of land, but I'm not sure if they've gated all of it. I know that they gate some of their land back in on the Nemah way up the E-Line. Weyerhaeuser is getting more stingy about camping though for sure. It's the Willapa Hills Unit that is getting more and more restricted these days. Rayonier turning those Salmon Creek and Fossil Creek parcels into permit only zones really did a number on some of the access in the area.

From reading their website it seems that you can still bike and walk in. It never says anything about shutting down access.

[hunter_sean08]

I've heard that access in the Williams Creek Unit is still pretty open. Hancock Timber bought a bunch of land, but I'm not sure if they've gated all of it. I know that they gate some of their land back in on the Nemah way up the E-Line. Weyerhaeuser is getting more stingy about camping though for sure. It's the Willapa Hills Unit that is getting more and more restricted these days. Rayonier turning those Salmon Creek and Fossil Creek parcels into permit only zones really did a number on some of the access in the area.

From reading their website it seems that you can still bike and walk in. It never says anything about shutting down access.

If you're referring to the Rayonier land, check out this link:

http://stores.rayonierhuntingpermits.com/StoreFront.bok

As far as the Hancock and Weyerhaeuser land is concerned, you can still bike and walk in on their roads unless otherwise posted. If you're hanging around the Williams Creek area you should be perfectly fine unless you drift too far east, but there are elk all over in 673 so you should be fine.

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

I've heard that access in the Williams Creek Unit is still pretty open. Hancock Timber bought a bunch of land, but I'm not sure if they've gated all of it. I know that they gate some of their land back in on the Nemah way up the E-Line. Weyerhaeuser is getting more stingy about camping though for sure. It's the Willapa Hills Unit that is getting more and more restricted these days. Rayonier turning those Salmon Creek and Fossil Creek parcels into permit only zones really did a number on some of the access in the area.

From reading their website it seems that you can still bike and walk in. It never says anything about shutting down access.

If you're referring to the Rayonier land, check out this link:

http://stores.rayonierhuntingpermits.com/StoreFront.bok

As far as the Hancock and Weyerhaeuser land is concerned, you can still bike and walk in on their roads unless otherwise posted. If you're hanging around the Williams Creek area you should be perfectly fine unless you drift too far east, but there are elk all over in 673 so you should be fine.

on my last trip down, I saw new Hancock signs on old WH roads, makes me happy.
I would rather walk/bike in the first week, than have complete closure like WH has had in the past.
Oh, and by the way,..
NO ELK IN WILLIAMS CREEK 
They all went East..
Good luck, if you see my mini-van at a gate,  !

[slim9300]

I've heard that access in the Williams Creek Unit is still pretty open. Hancock Timber bought a bunch of land, but I'm not sure if they've gated all of it. I know that they gate some of their land back in on the Nemah way up the E-Line. Weyerhaeuser is getting more stingy about camping though for sure. It's the Willapa Hills Unit that is getting more and more restricted these days. Rayonier turning those Salmon Creek and Fossil Creek parcels into permit only zones really did a number on some of the access in the area.

From reading their website it seems that you can still bike and walk in. It never says anything about shutting down access.

If you're referring to the Rayonier land, check out this link:

http://stores.rayonierhuntingpermits.com/StoreFront.bok

As far as the Hancock and Weyerhaeuser land is concerned, you can still bike and walk in on their roads unless otherwise posted. If you're hanging around the Williams Creek area you should be perfectly fine unless you drift too far east, but there are elk all over in 673 so you should be fine.

I have been there before and read that already. Nowhere does it say that you can't walk or bike into their property. It says that they provide "greater access" and they do that by giving you a gate key and permission to be in there with your truck and to camp. Did you see anything that says you can't walk in?

[hunter_sean08]

Well that's what I thought too but some people are convinced they won't even let you walk in. A guy on this thread was pretty confident that you couldn't...


http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,81363.msg1009642.html#msg1009642

I hope this is just a misunderstanding but who knows...

[archerE]

Thanks, all good links! I am still going to make a trip down there on Sat to scope it out. Best that I can remember, it would be some hard pedaling behind most of the gates. I will let you guys know what I find out after the weekend.

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

Best that I can remember, it would be some hard pedaling behind most of the gates

The ones that start hard, sure get exciting on the way out ! 
Actually have not brought a bike in yet, myself.
But I have walked past a few stashed in the bushes, while the riders hunted on foot......

Sometimes the easyiest way back , is not the way you got to where you are.. 

[AKBowman]

I've heard that access in the Williams Creek Unit is still pretty open. Hancock Timber bought a bunch of land, but I'm not sure if they've gated all of it. I know that they gate some of their land back in on the Nemah way up the E-Line. Weyerhaeuser is getting more stingy about camping though for sure. It's the Willapa Hills Unit that is getting more and more restricted these days. Rayonier turning those Salmon Creek and Fossil Creek parcels into permit only zones really did a number on some of the access in the area.

6. No persons other than PERMITTEE shall enter on or use the Lands under this Access Permit unless such person is in the company of PERMITEE and has a fully executed Companion Access Permit, Release and Waiver of Liability Indemnity and Hold Harmless Agreement. PERMITTEE may request a Companion Access Permit by e-mailing hunting@rayonier.com, or by calling 855-729-4868.

You could be right but I sure as hell wouldnt want to walk/bike in there with all the idiots on their quads. I was near there last weekend and heard from a couple timber fallers that its already a zoo in there. Anyone who bought that permit got ripped. 

From reading their website it seems that you can still bike and walk in. It never says anything about shutting down access.

If you're referring to the Rayonier land, check out this link:

http://stores.rayonierhuntingpermits.com/StoreFront.bok

As far as the Hancock and Weyerhaeuser land is concerned, you can still bike and walk in on their roads unless otherwise posted. If you're hanging around the Williams Creek area you should be perfectly fine unless you drift too far east, but there are elk all over in 673 so you should be fine.

I have been there before and read that already. Nowhere does it say that you can't walk or bike into their property. It says that they provide "greater access" and they do that by giving you a gate key and permission to be in there with your truck and to camp. Did you see anything that says you can't walk in?

[AKBowman]

6. No persons other than PERMITTEE shall enter on or use the Lands under this Access Permit unless such person is in the company of PERMITEE and has a fully executed Companion Access Permit, Release and Waiver of Liability Indemnity and Hold Harmless Agreement. PERMITTEE may request a Companion Access Permit by e-mailing hunting@rayonier.com, or by calling 855-729-4868.


That was supposed to paste on the last post. I was near there last weekend and talked to a few of the timber fallers who have been working in there and they said it is already a damn zoo in there with all the quads and camps. Idiots are riding thier quads out of the permit area and into surrounding timber co land OUT of the permit area. Anyone who bought that permit is...well they are not going to get what they paid for. Basically its access to a spot to camp and ride your ATV, have fun.

[micdude]

6. No persons other than PERMITTEE shall enter on or use the Lands under this Access Permit unless such person is in the company of PERMITEE and has a fully executed Companion Access Permit, Release and Waiver of Liability Indemnity and Hold Harmless Agreement. PERMITTEE may request a Companion Access Permit by e-mailing hunting@rayonier.com, or by calling 855-729-4868.


That was supposed to paste on the last post. I was near there last weekend and talked to a few of the timber fallers who have been working in there and they said it is already a damn zoo in there with all the quads and camps. Idiots are riding thier quads out of the permit area and into surrounding timber co land OUT of the permit area. Anyone who bought that permit is...well they are not going to get what they paid for. Basically its access to a spot to camp and ride your ATV, have fun.

That's what you would pay to camp at a KOA or state park for a week and you cant ride your ATV or shoot an elk behind your camping spot, plus no ranger. Does that permit just cover 1 person or 2 or a group?

[hunter_sean08]

Yeah this whole thing is all messed up. I would imagine that there are going to be tons of people violating access without even having knowledge that those parcels are Rayonier permit only this year. Thanks for the info AKBowman.

[archerE]

Very interesting.

[AKBowman]

Yeah this whole thing is all messed up. I would imagine that there are going to be tons of people violating access without even having knowledge that those parcels are Rayonier permit only this year. Thanks for the info AKBowman.

There is a lot of "signage" on most roads going into the permit area. What will and what already has happened is the people who have the permits riding their ATV's out of the permit area into the surrounding private timber co land where there is no motorized vehicles. The surrounding timber co's are already ramping up security around the borders of the permit area and have fresh ink in their pens for big tickets. The security guy I spoke with gave me his cell number and said the tickets for tresspassing with a motorized vehicle were over $1,000.00 

[slim9300]

6. No persons other than PERMITTEE shall enter on or use the Lands under this Access Permit unless such person is in the company of PERMITEE and has a fully executed Companion Access Permit, Release and Waiver of Liability Indemnity and Hold Harmless Agreement. PERMITTEE may request a Companion Access Permit by e-mailing hunting@rayonier.com, or by calling 855-729-4868.


That was supposed to paste on the last post. I was near there last weekend and talked to a few of the timber fallers who have been working in there and they said it is already a damn zoo in there with all the quads and camps. Idiots are riding thier quads out of the permit area and into surrounding timber co land OUT of the permit area. Anyone who bought that permit is...well they are not going to get what they paid for. Basically its access to a spot to camp and ride your ATV, have fun.

Can you provide a link to where that excerpt comes from?

[AKBowman]

Click on the link that hunter_sean08 posted on tue first page. Then I think it's under Permit Details or something like that but it's in that link somewhere.
I am still unsure if walking or biking in will be trespassing. Looks to me like the permit allows you to drive motorized vehicles, camp and cut wood I don't see where it says a person without a permit is not allowed to be in the property although the way I understand it by reading it it makes it sound as though you need to have the permit to be within the boundaries.

[O_mykiss]

I ran into and spoke with the head timberlands manager/head of Rayonier security last week. I learned three things

1. There is NO access unless you are a permit holder. NONE.ZERO.ZILCH. It doesn't matter what your excuse is.

2. The only reason for the permit program is that is costs money to allow public access and therefore Rayonier is getting out of the free access business.

3. Rayonier is going to aggressively pursue trespassers and prosecute them with great zeal. No warnings will be given.

[archerE]

Just made a trip down to Williams creek unit saturday. Tried going in at the Nemah Hatchery road. Gated right after the hatchery. Sign says Hancock timber company. They do allow you to walk in behind the gate.  Drove about a mile south and went in at Jorgenson Slough. Followed that all the way down till it hit the main line just a 1/2 mile BEHIND the closed gate. Did some more driving around and all the other areas seemed to be open. You really need to follow your map to stay on land thats open to vehicles.   I was thinking about hunting there, but between off limit roads and new clearcuts, I am thinking about somewhere different. Plan B.

[slim9300]

I ran into and spoke with the head timberlands manager/head of Rayonier security last week. I learned three things

1. There is NO access unless you are a permit holder. NONE.ZERO.ZILCH. It doesn't matter what your excuse is.

2. The only reason for the permit program is that is costs money to allow public access and therefore Rayonier is getting out of the free access business.

3. Rayonier is going to aggressively pursue trespassers and prosecute them with great zeal. No warnings will be given.

Why isn't it clear on their website then?

Who did you talk to? What's his phone number?

[O_mykiss]

The impression I got was that Rayonier is not particularly concerned with being "open book" about this stuff. The attitude is pretty much that its closed and thats all you need to know. They don't seem particularly concerned with keeping the general public abreast of all the details.

Unfortunately, I did not write the name down or get a card. "He" is a her. She introduced herself as the head of security and thats what I have to go on.

I have called 1-855-729-4868 before and asked questions. The woman at that number has at least been helpful in answering questions.

If you want to voice your opinion, try that number.

I was told that the current permit system is somewhat of a trial, and is subject to change based on how things have gone so far and this season. But I expect regardless of what changes in the future, its going to cost money and probably more than what it was this year.

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

Just made a trip down to Williams creek unit saturday. Tried going in at the Nemah Hatchery road. Gated right after the hatchery. Sign says Hancock timber company. They do allow you to walk in behind the gate.  Drove about a mile south and went in at Jorgenson Slough. Followed that all the way down till it hit the main line just a 1/2 mile BEHIND the closed gate. Did some more driving around and all the other areas seemed to be open. You really need to follow your map to stay on land thats open to vehicles.   I was thinking about hunting there, but between off limit roads and new clearcuts, I am thinking about somewhere different. Plan B.

Hancock is not Rayonier, access is not that complicated. 
Although, I guess if you are trying to learn a new area......
I hear there are Elk in the Colockum.......
.............
It might not be easy to figure out where to drive, but the areas to hunt are still the same 
I know my areas, DNR (State Land) and Hancock, are open to walk in w/o permit.

[hunter_sean08]

It's unfortunate that the Nemah road is gated just past the hatchery, but if there is another way in to the main line from a different road like you say there is, it is totally worth it. Because that road is now gated, I bet you'll see a number of lazy hunters turn around at the gate and go elsewhere. That main line takes you in to some of the best cuts and road systems in the Willapas, you just have to do some driving. The fact that a bunch of them are now gated makes it all the better. I would seriously reconsider your decision to go elsewhere at this point, especially if you've been scouting this area already. Thanks to college, I don't hunt down there much anymore, but if I had the time, I'd be there for the opener. 

[micdude]

Just made a trip down to Williams creek unit saturday. Tried going in at the Nemah Hatchery road. Gated right after the hatchery. Sign says Hancock timber company. They do allow you to walk in behind the gate.  Drove about a mile south and went in at Jorgenson Slough. Followed that all the way down till it hit the main line just a 1/2 mile BEHIND the closed gate. Did some more driving around and all the other areas seemed to be open. You really need to follow your map to stay on land thats open to vehicles.   I was thinking about hunting there, but between off limit roads and new clearcuts, I am thinking about somewhere different. Plan B.

Hancock is not Rayonier, access is not that complicated. 
Although, I guess if you are trying to learn a new area......
I hear there are Elk in the Colockum.......
.............
It might not be easy to figure out where to drive, but the areas to hunt are still the same 
I know my areas, DNR (State Land) and Hancock, are open to walk in w/o permit.

I just talked to an Hancock official on the phone I can say for sure they allow walk ins with out permit. But thier is no elk try the Colockum's

[slim9300]

The impression I got was that Rayonier is not particularly concerned with being "open book" about this stuff. The attitude is pretty much that its closed and thats all you need to know. They don't seem particularly concerned with keeping the general public abreast of all the details.

Unfortunately, I did not write the name down or get a card. "He" is a her. She introduced herself as the head of security and thats what I have to go on.

I have called 1-855-729-4868 before and asked questions. The woman at that number has at least been helpful in answering questions.

If you want to voice your opinion, try that number.

I was told that the current permit system is somewhat of a trial, and is subject to change based on how things have gone so far and this season. But I expect regardless of what changes in the future, its going to cost money and probably more than what it was this year.

Edit...

I will call

[Echomules]

Out scouting, found this new sign at a Rayonier gate. Goes with their pay-to-access program.

[archerE]

It's unfortunate that the Nemah road is gated just past the hatchery, but if there is another way in to the main line from a different road like you say there is, it is totally worth it. Because that road is now gated, I bet you'll see a number of lazy hunters turn around at the gate and go elsewhere. That main line takes you in to some of the best cuts and road systems in the Willapas, you just have to do some driving. The fact that a bunch of them are now gated makes it all the better. I would seriously reconsider your decision to go elsewhere at this point, especially if you've been scouting this area already. Thanks to college, I don't hunt down there much anymore, but if I had the time, I'd be there for the opener. 

So the main line is gated by the hatchery. If you find another way to drive in and get behind the gate, but get caught, do you play stupid and tell them you didn't see any gates the way you came in? 

[rose673]

Yes you are right that you can get in from jorgenson slough, but it is just a matter of time before there is a gate there or is dug out as well.  There are a number of gates sitting in the parking lot at the Cathlamet hancock office waiting to go in.  They are either going to gate or dig up all access to get into the hancock unit as soon as they get to it and I dont believe I would be caught driving around back there especially now during fire season when your not suppose to be back there.  They know where all of the backways are to that unit and are going to put some sort of barrier up as soon as they get to it.  It still will not be any different in rifle traffic wise, just cant camp on the ground anymore.

[Echomules]

I'm just worried about how busy this unit will be with the adjacent Weyerhauser gates and the Rayonier land locked up to pay hunting.

[hunter_sean08]

Yes you are right that you can get in from jorgenson slough, but it is just a matter of time before there is a gate there or is dug out as well.  There are a number of gates sitting in the parking lot at the Cathlamet hancock office waiting to go in.  They are either going to gate or dig up all access to get into the hancock unit as soon as they get to it and I dont believe I would be caught driving around back there especially now during fire season when your not suppose to be back there.  They know where all of the backways are to that unit and are going to put some sort of barrier up as soon as they get to it.  It still will not be any different in rifle traffic wise, just cant camp on the ground anymore.

Good to know. So are they going to open the gates during the modern season then? I was sitting back thinking last night that none of this is fair if they keep all of these roads gated during hunting season, especially the archery and muzzy guys that never see an open gate. I mean think about it, we get shafted by the WDFW with short seasons that usually don't go any longer than 2 1/2 to 3 weeks, and those are the long seasons. It should not be a big deal for them to let us in for a few weeks out of the year just to hunt. I understand that they're worried about vandalism and dumping, but not much, if any is going to happen within the few weeks we're in there. We kill the bears that damage their trees, the deer and elk that overbrowse. They could use our help in my opinion. I dunno, I just feel like they should open the main gates at least. It's all frustrating....

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

What might be confusing to some, Unit 673 is Williams Creek, while, I think the Rayonier land is in Willapa Hills unit,...
Niether has a ML season, Archery and Modern only..... 

[hunter_sean08]

What might be confusing to some, Unit 673 is Williams Creek, while, I think the Rayonier land is in Willapa Hills unit,...
Niether has a ML season, Archery and Modern only..... 

You are definitely correct, although I have a ml tag in the Willapas for a cow in December. For sure the Rayonier land is in the Willapa Hills Unit though. It's all Weyerhaeuser and Hancock in Williams Creek.

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

It's all Weyerhaeuser and Hancock in Williams Creek.

And DNR,

[Paps4]

It looks like there may be some rayonier land to the northeast of Williams creek road.  Google "pacific county mapsifter" for a detailed sat. map showing the ownership of all parcels in the area.  When you zoom in the parcels will show up.

[rose673]

Was glad to see a pacific county sherriff sitting about a 100 yards inside the gate of the fossil keyed area.  Talked to him for about 30 minutes and he had been sitting there since 4 this morning, will be issuing tickets not warnings to violaters.   The sherriff's office and WDFW are starting to do patrols in the area or at least sit at the gate..... A nice site to see if you have a key.

[willapawapiti]

I understand the Williams Creek mainline is gated also....FYI

[bobcat]

Isn't it funny how the WDFW created all the extra (and unnecessary) special permit categories last year, so they could raise more money, for what they said was to be improved access on private lands for hunters. Well, I'm not seeing a whole lot more access than what we had before. In fact I'm hearing of gates going up everywhere in SW Washington and some areas the timber companies are charging a fee to hunt. What happened to all the extra FREE access for hunters, WDFW?

[grundy53]

Isn't it funny how the WDFW created all the extra (and unnecessary) special permit categories last year, so they could raise more money, for what they said was to be improved access on private lands for hunters. Well, I'm not seeing a whole lot more access than what we had before. In fact I'm hearing of gates going up everywhere in SW Washington and some areas the timber companies are charging a fee to hunt. What happened to all the extra FREE access for hunters, WDFW?

[bobcat]

Did a little more thinking about this situation, and what I see happening in the near future, with many of the BEST elk hunting areas on the west side of the state being locked up, is that people are going to be crammed more and more into the areas that are still open to public access. And what this is going to do is to force the DFW to go to permit only elk hunting, to have some sort of control on the number of hunters in certain areas.

I foresee some big changes coming with our elk seasons. They can't just continue unlimited general season hunts in all GMU's, with access being severely restricted like it is now. And it's only going to get worse. It's pretty bad right now with what seems like the majority of the Willapa Hills units being gated. I'm close to giving up entirely on elk hunting in this state.

[AKBowman]

 

I agree to a certain level; if the tendencies of the timber co's is going to head towards access permits than yes it will only be a matter of time. If the timber co's limit access to walk in-non motorized vehicle access by gating more roads than I believe OTC elk hunting on te west side will not only continue but continue to get better (more high quality). The unfortunate side to this coin is that this limits the field to those with the physical capability to perform on these demanding type hunts.
If access permits are the wave of the future for timber co's, which I believe will be the case than things are really going to change.
Personally I do not see why they would limit access for a person who was willing to hike/bike in. What damage can you cause? What means will you have to dump anything?

On a side note, I would be more than willing to pay an access fee to hunt in an area that was gated with NO motorized vehicles. However, I will never pay a dime to hunt in access fee area under the arrangements that are currently set up for Fossil Crk. Every yahoo with a permit will be driving all over hell

[AKBowman]

And why open gates for modern firearm? I have never understood that. Gates that are locked for archery are opened for mod firearm. I love the locked gates but if
Your going to lock a gate than keep it locked year round. The only reason I can see why the timber co's would open gates for modern firearm is they want people to run the elk off of their land to minimize damage to reprod, etc

[CJ-5]

I agree, if you lock it up for archery and muzzleloaders, lock it up for rifle hunters as well.  It would be some pretty good hunting for those who put in the work! 

[Dbax129]

BUMP

So I was doing some searching and reading, and was curious, does anybody have any idea if there are parts of Williams Creek (673) that are closed during modern to all vehicles?  I know most that posted in this thread seemed to disapprove of the new gates and holes blocking roads, but personally I am hoping that this means better hunting for those of us who are willing to hike/bike in. 
This thread was mostly prior to the 2011 season, so my bump is for an update.  After 2 more seasons, what does it look like?  Is there drive-in access on all the Weyerhaeuser and Hancock and DNR land there?  Thanks everybody! 
I might try and go down there this weekend to start driving around and scouting gates and access points.  I've never been before, but I think I'm going to hunt this unit this year with a couple of buddies who are also new to elk hunting.  We live in kitsap, so we've got a 3 1/2 drive, but my other thought was 615, which is almost the same distance, and it rains there sooo much, it might scare off my buddies... we'll see. 

[Halo]

Probably going to be a mess down there this year, Rayonier just leased out another 1025 acre area down there. That will bump alot of hunters around, probably myself included. I have property there and have hunted that area for over 30 years. Hopefully I will draw a decent out of state tag and be able to just abandon that area for a while.

[skywalker253]

Don't waste your time going down there. I was there last week attempting to scout around. Everything is closed up by Hancock. You can access the 2200 RD, which takes you back north thru the GMU and will dump you out into Raymond. But you cannot drive it until September 1, 2013 when bow hunting season opens. You could probably walk in to a few areas, but you would likely not get very far. They have signs posted to "keep out" or risk being prosecuted. The same thing happened last year when I tried to go down in July to look around. Gated up!