WDFW-Why our Early Elk Season is Shorter

[Bean Counter]

....
This is the type of attitude which will guarantee that we lose more and more hunting privileges.  This type of attitude led to the loss of hunting branch bulls on the east side forever (unless you draw a permit),......

People think we can sustain over the counter branch bull permits for the eastside for anyone who wants to fork over $40 for 'em? really? Wow...

I don't think it's people's attitudes, it's that we don't have the number of animals to justify the seasons you all are wishing we had. The WDFW doesn't give us shorter seasons because they don't like us- they do it to control the number of animals harvested. In the online survey, my comments were to do away with most antlerless deer and elk general seasons. And, to shorten or eliminate late archery and muzzleloader general seasons.

Bingo.


This may or may not be apart of the conversation but I would rather have much more liberal seasons if several hunts or units were switched to draw only. I would rather have a quality hunt every other year than a sea of half-hearted jack@$$es every year. Definitely would address some of the over harvest issues at hand.  I know this is a bow hunting forum but that thread about "have you ever been shot at in the woods?" also comes to my mind. I have hunted several of the western states and I don't hear of that going on as much as in WA. I think people get too attached to "their" hunting spots on public land and forget that game animals are a public resource belonging to all of us. 

[colockumelk]

If you must know (and I'll make this as simple as possible)  We lose more and more of our seasons because of this.  The WDFW determines about how many animals in PMU (Primary Managment Unit) that it wants harvested.  So they then break it down by user group.  Modern gets 65%, Archery gets 20% and Muzzle Loaders get 15% of the harvest.  Then they monitor the harvest reports for three years.  (Season setting process)  After three years if one user group is harvesting more than its fair share they shorten the season by a couple of days.

Now why are we as hunters doing better and better?  Our gear is alot better.  Plain and simple, with the GPS guys are going deeper and deeper.  Our archery gear and muzzle loader gear is better, more accurate and easier to use.  We have better gear that keeps us cooler, warmer and dryer so we stay out longer.  More and more people have 4wd vehicles and ATV's meaning we can cover more ground, better optics to see better.  Also more and more people call and the calls are better with videos to help us out so we can call better making us more effective.  There are alot more articles about hunting with tips and techniques, as well as videos to help us out in hunting. 

That and a big thing is that we have less areas to hunt so we are more crowded into areas making it so animals have no place to escape to meaning we kill more and more animals. The WDFW has only one way to control the amount of animals harvested and that is with antler restrictions and season length and timing.  The other big impact is the fact that there are far more predators today than we had 15 years ago.  A bull calf killed by a cougar is the same thing in the long run as if that cougar killed a 350" bull elk. 

We need to offer the WDFW stiff resistance any time and everytime they try and take a season away from us.  Why???  Because there is more than one way to increase the numbers of elk and deer other than taking opportunity away from us.  They could issue more hound tags for predators or fight to bring back baiting for bears etc.  The WDFW wants us to believe that we are the only key to conservation.  But that is COMPLETE BS!!!!  The WDFW can do a better job at conservation without taking more and more away from us.  We need to stand firm and stand tall to make them do other stuff for conservation other than take away more and more opportunity. 

[Yak-NDN]

If you must know (and I'll make this as simple as possible)  We lose more and more of our seasons because of this.  The WDFW determines about how many animals in PMU (Primary Managment Unit) that it wants harvested.  So they then break it down by user group.  Modern gets 65%, Archery gets 20% and Muzzle Loaders get 15% of the harvest.  Then they monitor the harvest reports for three years.  (Season setting process)  After three years if one user group is harvesting more than its fair share they shorten the season by a couple of days.

Now why are we as hunters doing better and better?  Our gear is alot better.  Plain and simple, with the GPS guys are going deeper and deeper.  Our archery gear and muzzle loader gear is better, more accurate and easier to use.  We have better gear that keeps us cooler, warmer and dryer so we stay out longer.  More and more people have 4wd vehicles and ATV's meaning we can cover more ground, better optics to see better.  Also more and more people call and the calls are better with videos to help us out so we can call better making us more effective.  There are alot more articles about hunting with tips and techniques, as well as videos to help us out in hunting. 

That and a big thing is that we have less areas to hunt so we are more crowded into areas making it so animals have no place to escape to meaning we kill more and more animals. The WDFW has only one way to control the amount of animals harvested and that is with antler restrictions and season length and timing.  The other big impact is the fact that there are far more predators today than we had 15 years ago.  A bull calf killed by a cougar is the same thing in the long run as if that cougar killed a 350" bull elk. 

We need to offer the WDFW stiff resistance any time and everytime they try and take a season away from us.  Why???  Because there is more than one way to increase the numbers of elk and deer other than taking opportunity away from us.  They could issue more hound tags for predators or fight to bring back baiting for bears etc.  The WDFW wants us to believe that we are the only key to conservation.  But that is COMPLETE BS!!!!  The WDFW can do a better job at conservation without taking more and more away from us.  We need to stand firm and stand tall to make them do other stuff for conservation other than take away more and more opportunity.

I don't consider myself one of the people that  piss everyone off and take advantage and kill numerous bull elk because I can. But clock what you are saying the state is trying to do is exactly what most non Tribal members what to do to me. I don't like to see people killing elk because they can you know how I stand on that.

[colockumelk]

YAK I know where you stand on that. I would just like to see some rules put in place that would stop people from taking advantage of the rights you enjoy.

[Bean Counter]

Now why are we as hunters doing better and better?  Our gear is alot better.  Plain and simple, with the GPS guys are going deeper and deeper.  Our archery gear and muzzle loader gear is better, more accurate and easier to use.  We have better gear that keeps us cooler, warmer and dryer so we stay out longer.  More and more people have 4wd vehicles and ATV's meaning we can cover more ground, better optics to see better.  Also more and more people call and the calls are better with videos to help us out so we can call better making us more effective.  There are alot more articles about hunting with tips and techniques, as well as videos to help us out in hunting. 

Yep. From a game management standpoint, I'm sure the WDFW (and every other state) likes it like this. If a specific unit only has the capacity for 60 animals to be harvested, there's much less uncertainty giving out 100 tags to hunters who have a 60% harvest rate as opposed  to giving out 67 tags when you know 90% will harvest an animal. Sucks that 33 less people will get to hunt, but the department will have a better idea of whats going on in the woods, and those 67 will likely have a more enjoyable hunt.

That and a big thing is that we have less areas to hunt so we are more crowded into areas making it so animals have no place to escape to meaning we kill more and more animals. The WDFW has only one way to control the amount of animals harvested and that is with antler restrictions and season length and timing.  The other big impact is the fact that there are far more predators today than we had 15 years ago.  A bull calf killed by a cougar is the same thing in the long run as if that cougar killed a 350" bull elk. 

  Road closures??? Draw only?? Those don't reduce harvest??

We need to offer the WDFW stiff resistance any time and everytime they try and take a season away from us.  Why???  Because there is more than one way to increase the numbers of elk and deer other than taking opportunity away from us.  They could issue more hound tags for predators or fight to bring back baiting for bears etc.  The WDFW wants us to believe that we are the only key to conservation.  But that is COMPLETE BS!!!!  The WDFW can do a better job at conservation without taking more and more away from us.  We need to stand firm and stand tall to make them do other stuff for conservation other than take away more and more opportunity.

I agree... Wolves, cougars, renegotiate the Indian treaties, etc. These and many more reasons why I don't covet your plight in WA. The state is subject to a big, liberal mind F* that is all about giving land back to the loser of a war and apologizing for America's greatness. I commend those of you going to these meetings and letting your voice be heard.

[colockumelk]

Bean Counter you listed Road Closures and Draw only as a way to control harvest.  I agree completely.  I should have said that the only three ways that the WDFW is WILLING to control harvest is through antler restrictions and season length and timing.  I agree that road closures and draw only can control harvest.  But these are two things that wont happen.  I sent a report to the Wildlife commission using their own data showing the Colockum had seen a reduction of 70% in their branch bull population.  I went to two different WDFW meetings telling them the same.  Three different papers wrote articles about the report I wrote and they still will not do permit only in the Colockum.  Apparantly a 70% decrease in 10 years is an acceptable loss rate for the WDFW.  The ONLY way the WDFW will go to draw only for anything is if they can make more money off of that.   

[Bean Counter]

Well I've never hunted the Colockum herd and certainly haven't done that level of research. I'll have to defer to your knowledge. I have no argument that its all about the Benjamins when it comes to the WDFW. Perhaps we need a petitiom to make the WDFW chairman an elected official--and only hunters get to vote. 

[cryfowl]

It's all about the almighty $.  Rifle seasons are more popular thus generate more revenue.  We, as bow hunters, have limited access on top of the shorter season.(At least around my area)  Every year our local timber companies close their gates the last week of August and post lots of them as closed to public access, yet come October, these gates are once again opened for the rifle hunters.  When I questioned this, I was told it was because if they kept them closed during the Rifle seasons, people would shoot the locks off or vandalize the gates and it would cost them too much $$ to repair.  My response, So, you reward the people who vandalize your gates?  I hunted the Winston Creek unit a few years back where the woods were closed to us, for "fire danger".  It had rained 3 days straight and even snowed over night.  We kept calling the hotline pointing out that we could drown in the puddles in the road if we fell in.  Eventually the lady stated, well you know that 90% of our WEYCO hunters are rifle hunters.  I look at it like this, the timber companies can do whatever they want with their land.  If they don't want bow hunters on them, then just come out and say so.  Just like the WDFW, don't make up BS excuses to justify what you do, just tell it like it is.          

[bowelkaholic]

they did this for money big bull permits in all the units 1or2 in all unitsthat would be rifle hunts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  ::

[iRem]

In regards to the harvest of game animals in general, I believe they should NOT issue tags to those that did NOT submit their harvest. I know they issue a $10 admin fee but should not issue a tag until they record their harvest no matter what they did.

[colockumelk]

I just went through a mandatory Bowhunters education course down here in Alabama, so I can legally hunt with a bow in New York.  That class was really good.  I enjoyed it and I learned a decent amount.  I think that Washington should follow suite with other states and require that anyone under the age of 40 or 50 be required to attend a bowhunters education course in order to hunt with a bow in this state.  That would weed out alot of the undesirables in our group. 

[pianoman9701]

I just went through a mandatory Bowhunters education course down here in Alabama, so I can legally hunt with a bow in New York.  That class was really good.  I enjoyed it and I learned a decent amount.  I think that Washington should follow suite with other states and require that anyone under the age of 40 or 50 be required to attend a bowhunters education course in order to hunt with a bow in this state.  That would weed out alot of the undesirables in our group.

I've heard this before but I'm hesitant to request more regulations. Do you think it would garner much support to have one be voluntary or do you think the "undesirables" would just continue to ignore it? To you, what are the biggest benefits of the program you just completed?

[NWWABOWHNTR]

I just went through a mandatory Bowhunters education course down here in Alabama, so I can legally hunt with a bow in New York.  That class was really good.  I enjoyed it and I learned a decent amount.  I think that Washington should follow suite with other states and require that anyone under the age of 40 or 50 be required to attend a bowhunters education course in order to hunt with a bow in this state.  That would weed out alot of the undesirables in our group.

I've heard this before but I'm hesitant to request more regulations. Do you think it would garner much support to have one be voluntary or do you think the "undesirables" would just continue to ignore it? To you, what are the biggest benefits of the program you just completed?

WE are one of the few states left that does not require it.  Idaho does and it is mandatory for first time bowhunters only.... I am all for it in this State... I think you will see it come to fruition in the next few years...

[colockumelk]

Pianoman at the end of this post I'll list what we learned.  I think it would strengthen our community.  Yes we would probably lose about 10% of our numbers but we would lose the 10% that shouldn't be carrying a bow during the season anyways.  We would be a stronger and more ethical community.  For people who are serious bowhunters and do their own research probably about 75% of the stuff taught will be a review.  But for the people who are not as serious and don't do much research it will make them a much better/safer/more ethical bowhunter.  I say we would lose at least 10% because they are the ones who are not all that serious about bowhunting and would say *censored* it and feel its a huge pain in the rear and go back to gun hunting.  It would separate the bowhunters from the guys who just hunt with a bow.  On the plus side not only would we lose the "less dedicated" or less desirables all that would attend these courses would learn something and would get better at their craft.  I know I do ALOT of research and I still learned stuff.  Here is a rundown of how the course I attended in Alabama went.  Now granted since it was in Alabama it was a little bit treestand heavy so I'm sure a WA based one would be structured slightly different.

1.) They taught a class on parts and pieces of a bow, how to care for your bow and travel with your bow and taught how to properly tune your bow and also the importance of doing so. 
2.) They inspected all our bows for safety etc.  We then shot all of our bows and had an accuracy test.  Had to hit deer vitals  3 out of 4 times at unknown distances from 20-35 yds. 
3.) We got a class on the different types of tree stands and how to properly use them.  We learned how to properly wear a safety harness and learned how to get in and out of a treestand without falling.  We then had to fall out of the tree stand and get back in the treestand (The stand was 4 feet off the ground not 20)
4.) We got a class on what ethical shots were and when not to take a shot.  We then got a class on the steps to take once you have made the shot until you start tracking the deer.  Also how to tell where you shot by the reaction of the deer and the hair and blood etc. 
5.) We then got a class on following blood trails and there was a mock blood trail for us to follow.
6.) We then got a class on what to expect for out of state hunts and how to prepare for them.  Ironically enough I met one guy who has hunted up in the Rimrock GMU.  Most of the instructors go to Idaho and hunt elk every year.  I also learned that expandables are not that popular down here.
7.) The last class was about wilderness survival, map reading, gps usage and first aid in the field. 

Oh we also got a free lunch that was deer burgers and deer hotdogs with chips pop etc.  Overall it was a really good class.  It was fun and really laid back.  I did learn alot and I feel it is one more piece of info i can use.  The total cost was $45.  My bow hunter safety card is good in every state and in Canada. 

[bowhuntersd]

I also have an opinion on this.. I'm 32 yrs old and have only hunted archery since I started at 13yrs. I have watch the archery seasons get pushed around by the "Bully" (WDFW) year after year. Years ago they changed our season because they said riffle hunters harvested more animal than any other weapon and they counted on them for herd management numbers, now their saying we (archers) harvest the majority of animal.  Make up your F%#@ing minds!!! Are we better hunters? Do we have the better season? or do we just put more into our hunting than other? One thing I'm sure of, is that I've hunted my a$$ off every year and haven't harvested a bull in the last 5yrs.
In my opinion I feel their jacking us around again to caiter to the massive riffle hunting population $$$$$. This is obvious with the 26 new Sept. riffle tags given out.