Big Scare this morning

[Elliott]

I have a black lab, shown in my profile pic, he is 3 yo going on 4 in January. I have had him since he was 8 weeks old and have been hunting with him since he was 1. He got to experience dove hunting for the first time this year, which he didn't particularly like all the much with all the feathers in his mouth. He has been watching me the passed couple weeks while I have been gathering my hunting stuff and he knows what time of year it is, however this morning he beat me out of bed and was waiting to be let upstairs. I heard him scratching at the door (something he doesn't normally do) but it was really strange, he kept scratching, then it sounded like he was kicking at the door, then I woke to hear my dad yelling at him, I ran out of bed not knowing what was going on and I saw my puppy having a seizure. I didn't know what to do, so I tried to soothe him by petting him and just waiting for the seizure to go away, as the convulsions stopped he started to whine like he was in pain except it sounded like one long breath of a whine. As that stopped his mouth started to foam and I thought the worst was over, then he started to flail about and scream and this scared me very much. Well we took him to the vet and they said his blood work was clean and that it was an epileptic seizure and that it was unfortunate but normal thing for dogs his age.
My question is, how many of you have had a dog that has had a seizure once in his or her life and then never had one again? How safe is it to hunt with a dog that has had a seizure? Is there any hope that my dog will still live 10-15 happy years?

Prayers and positive thoughts are welcome

[bucklucky]

I have had 2 dogs (hounds) that have had seizures. Both ended up having Pancriotic tumors. Ended up changing my old dogs diet , had to feed her small meals every couple hours . Not that it is whats wrong with your dog but it does suck when it happens. I wouldnt worry too much unless it starts happening more often . I dont remember what blood work was like. Id have to ask my wife.

[Kola16]

I know a black lab that has had a seizure and is still hunting. She is 8 years old, and has only had one seizure, and that was about 4 months ago. I hope your dog will be okay 

[BigD]

We recently put our boxer down, he was 14 years and got to the point he could no longer get himself up, so it was time. he lived a great active life.
About the same age as your dog he started to have seizures. His were much less severe. He would lay down and start breathing very heavy and seemend unable to move and they lasted only 3-5 minutes. This happened about 5 or so times over the course of the summer, we actually thought he was allergic to the yellow jackets that he was trying to eat all that summer. took him to the Vet, they ran a blood panel or what ever they do and told us he was having epeleptic seizures. They gave him some medication in a pill form that we gave him once a day for about a year. Further tests showed he no longer needed the medication and he nerver had another seizure the rest of his life.
If your lab is anything like our boxer he should be fine, we never saw any side effects what so ever, he spent a good part of the rest of his life at full throttle.

[Glockster]

Epilepsy in labs is a common dirty little secret in the breeding world.  My buddy found out the hard way.  He had a lab that did the same as yours.  Ended up spending a lot of $'s and heartache when he eventually put him down. 

He was a great dog, but he just couldn't bear the risk of watching him have a seizure during an icy retrieve and drowning. 

It maybe ok IMHO to keep a dog like that, but I'd never ever hunt ducks with it. 

[Elliott]

Well, he just had another seizure. This is happening far too often for my liking, one was enough in fact. He had the seizure in my bed so I woke up right away from it. It sucks to think about but it was less traumatic for me this time compared to the first one, and it seemed like a much shorter seizure as well, only about a minute and a half of seizing and about 5 minutes to regain his head and legs back to mostly normal functionality.

[vandeman17]

That is really scary and I am sure it is a helpless feeling. I don't know what I would do if my lab started having seizures. I really hope everything is ok with your dog and keep us posted on how it goes!

[quadrafire]

Well, he just had another seizure. This is happening far too often for my liking, one was enough in fact. He had the seizure in my bed so I woke up right away from it. It sucks to think about but it was less traumatic for me this time compared to the first one, and it seemed like a much shorter seizure as well, only about a minute and a half of seizing and about 5 minutes to regain his head and legs back to mostly normal functionality.

Most epileptic seizures occur at periods of rest, not activity, so I wouldn't hesitate to hunt. If you find he is having more than a couple per month, or if they get more severe, he may need some treatment. Talk to your vet about medication if they get worse or more frequent.

[YellowDog]

Is he on medication for the seizures?  My parents had a golden retreiver that had a few serious seziures starting at about the age of your pup.  She was never really hunted but we took her to a pheasant release site once and when the guns started going off she got really agitated and that seemed to trigger one of the worst seizures.  She was put on medication and made a great house pet and never had another seizure.  She gained some weight partially as a side affect of the meds and partially because she was a spoiled house pet but she lived to be 11 or 12 and was put down when cancer took over.  Best of luck.

[Happy Gilmore]

Well, he just had another seizure. This is happening far too often for my liking, one was enough in fact. He had the seizure in my bed so I woke up right away from it. It sucks to think about but it was less traumatic for me this time compared to the first one, and it seemed like a much shorter seizure as well, only about a minute and a half of seizing and about 5 minutes to regain his head and legs back to mostly normal functionality.

Most epileptic seizures occur at periods of rest, not activity, so I wouldn't hesitate to hunt. If you find he is having more than a couple per month, or if they get more severe, he may need some treatment. Talk to your vet about medication if they get worse or more frequent.

If he has one while swimming he's dead. They don't occur on any prescribed time line. They can happen anytime. They are not any less likely to occur because a dog is exercising or resting.

[PointNLab]

http://www.labradorcnm.com/ 

There are several differnt reasons your pup may be having siezures.  If your a breeder or are involved in the labrador breed you will know that the big concerns today are Centronuclear Myopathy and Excersize Induced Collapse.  It's not a dirty secret as mentioned above; but; it's not something the typical hunter will know about even though htere have been articles in DU magazine.  The good thing is in the past three years there have been gentic test availible to the breeder to make sure that pups are not affected by these inflictions. The are other causes for seizures that you may want to discuss with a vet.  You can google search EIC or CNM to find out how to test your own dog for these and they cost is failry cheap for the kit to do you own swabing.  When buying a lab pup now days a buyer should ask for health clearnces for at least Hips, Elbows, Eyes (CERF and PRA) and EIC and CNM.  A pup whose parents have all their health clearnces will be more expensive at first but save a lot of heart ache later.  I hope you find out what the cause is.

[wildweeds]

You really should get the dog to the vet........preferably one that won't puh shaw the problem off as " It happens". You need some phenobaribitol to administer when the dog is having the seizure, if the seizure lasts more than 7 minutes brain damage is occuring,and if it goes on long enough it will cook their brain.I've had 3 dogs out of 25 so far that have had seizures,two of those dogs seized once and only once is what it took to kill them,one at age 7 the other this year at almost 9.The remaining dog has hypoglycemic grand mal seizures that when he awoke was nastier than a rattlesnake.


  P.S. THE ONLY WAY to diagnose epilepsy properly for SURE is to pull blood sample from the dog WHILE the SEIZURE is happening.

[Jason]

My buddy had a yellow lab, he had seizures, he would run straight into walls and make crazy growling sounds, vets could find no reasons behind the seizures.

[Helix]

When I was 6 I got a dog for my birthday and about 6 months later she started having seizures like you describbed.  That will freek a 6 year old right out!  Anyway I feel for you. If it is epileptic seizures there are anti convulsive drugs that you can have your vet provide that can help probably reduce the risk of seizure by 80-90%. But nothing is for sure.  We gave our dog her meds in a little block of cheese everyday.  That dog lived until I was about 13 (was no pup when I got her.) 

There are also lots of toxic things around that can give a dog seizures too, anit freeze, wild mushrooms, rat poison... to name just a couple.  Check around your yard for mushrooms and keep a close eye out and dispose of any growing that you find.  I'm not sure if these would show up in the dogs bloodwork or not.  Anti-freeze probably would show up in tests they ran.  My wife had a pup that got into a small mushroom patch a few years ago they knew what casued it due to the dog vomiting it up.  It went blind and had seizures for about a week on and off then recovered fully including it's eyesight.  You just never know.   

[kckrawler]

I have a 10 year old Boston that started having seizures this year. It happened about once a month for a few months. The first time he had one, I called the vet and they told me to bring him in if it lasts longer than 5 minutes. Like clock work, they all seem to stop right at the 5 minute mark. I finally took him in for testing, blood and urine, and got the "All Clear". The vet then went onto telling me how it might be in the brain and that they could look into it more. I declined the offer since there isn't much they can do about a brain tumor.

One thing he told me to do was to gently rub a wet rag on his forehead during the seizure. Also, he told me that if you close their eye lids and gently apply pressure to the eye balls during the seizure that often times it'll bring them out quickly. The next seizure, I gave it a shot, and it lasted about 2 minutes, much shorter than the others...you should try it next time.

On a side note, witnessing seizures really suck, I couldn't imagine watching a child or a loved one go through it. The only thing that you can do is remember that he has no idea what's going on, his brain is rebooting (in a sense)....telling myself that usually helps keep me calm. 

[Happy Gilmore]

I had an ex-gf who was epileptic. It wasn't fun.

[Buckhunter24]

My moms dog had seizures practically her entire life after she was hit by a car when she was young (she was a mutt, never really new what breeds). Probably had 6 or 8 a year that we knew about. The vet did prescribe something for her that my mom gave to her everyday, not sure what it was but it seemed to make the seizures more infrequent. She lived to be 17. It was always upsetting when they happened but it didnt take long until she was up and moving fine after they happened. I hope your pup is okay, they can still live long and happy lives even if they have regular seizures.

[Caseyd]

Any update today? How's the dog doing

[wildweeds]

my info is solid..............straight from my birdhunting vetrinarian..............An A+ WSU grad and small animal hospital owner. Nuclear meltdown china syndrome can occur.Heatstroke is what kills them from all of the convulsing muscles.

You really should get the dog to the vet........preferably one that won't puh shaw the problem off as " It happens". You need some phenobaribitol to administer when the dog is having the seizure, if the seizure lasts more than 7 minutes brain damage is occuring,and if it goes on long enough it will cook their brain.I've had 3 dogs out of 25 so far that have had seizures,two of those dogs seized once and only once is what it took to kill them,one at age 7 the other this year at almost 9.The remaining dog has hypoglycemic grand mal seizures that when he awoke was nastier than a rattlesnake.


  P.S. THE ONLY WAY to diagnose epilepsy properly for SURE is to pull blood sample from the dog WHILE the SEIZURE is happening.

Definitely find a vet that takes this problem seriously.
The advice Wildweeds is giving is for a specific type of seizure. How long a dog, or human for that matter, has a seizure does not determine brain damage. It is how high the body temperature gets and how violent the seizure is (how low glucose levels reach and how high acid levels reach).  Phenobarbital medication in dogs can cause its own health problems. If your dog is having the type of seizure described above where brain damage will occur then phenobarbital is better than not doing anything. That is NOT the proper treatment for all seizures. Labs can be prone to have the type of seizure that Wilweeds had to deal with.
Epilepsy is a general medical term that is a diagnosis once 2 or more seizures have occurred. The blood work helps determine what type of seizure is occurring.

[L8NITE]

Never a problem with my labs but I had a hound that had seizures. The vet put him on some meds and they happened less frequently and were pretty mild. Never slowed him down or stopped him from hunting. I was always worried he would have one at a very bad time and get eaten by a bear or cat but he made it through that and died of old age. Good luck with your pup and talk to several vets you will get a different answer almost all the time.

[Elliott]

Well I thought I would let you guys in on what has happened in the past few months, well rane had a total of for seizures, spanning two and a half months, they all seemed to be the same magnitude, none more severe than the first. He has been on phenobarbital since mid december and hasn't had a seizure since thank God. His dosage is 97 mg and he gets it twice a day one with breakfast and one with dinner. I just put it in with his god and he eats it like a piece of kibble. The down side of his medication is that at first he was extremely hungry and thirsty and he would drink about half a gallon in one go around and he was always roaming around looking for food. That side effect has decreased somewhat. The other side effect is that it made his back legs very wobbly and he would drag his back legs when he walked.that side effect has also worn off to a degree. unfortunately we missed out on the entire duck season. I wanted to make sure that his dosage was sufficient to repress any seizures. So yeah kinda just spat out a bunch of random info on how he is doing but yeah I'm glad that he its doing well it was really hard to watch him going through his seizures and the effects that follow.

[Bigluke1981]

Glad to hear that he is doing better!!