Deer Numbers Down - Methow?

[CavemantheHunter]

I just got back from hunting around Twisp/Winthrop, where we hunt every year. In our spots where we normally see 20-30 deer a day, we were only seeing 3-4. Everyone I talked to, including our local friends, say that they haven't been seeing nearly the amount of deer this year. I also noticed that the majority of the does I saw had no fawns. I heard that there has been an influx of coyotes, was thinking that the predators are just wiping out all of the fawns. Does anyone else have any ideas? Did anyone have much success in the Methow Valley this year?

[jstone]

 

[Wenatcheejay]

Strange, what could have happened?

(To Idaho, Montana, Ect...)

edit

I do know how dishearting it is to see what you explained. It makes a person sick.

Where wolves are hunting is no longer the way it has been all your days in the Field. They hunt/kill/slaughter 365 days per year. Nothing is the same where they are accept a wilderness void of life and as they explode they will distroy everything until it is gone and hopefully they will eventually starve and die or move into West Seattle. But don't worry, take up botany as i hear that is the new sport, looking for and identifying weeds.

Don't forget the Discovery Pass for it. 

[buckfvr]

my thoughts...... does hang in the valley bottoms because it greens up first.....they fawn there most of the time.  If the wolves were the biggest part of the poor fawn recruitment, it would not go un-noticed by the locals.  On the other hand, with so many more people living  in the Methow and other rural areas ( including Stevens County where I am ),  much of the land is posted, and the owners dont allow any hunting, even for coyotes. 

If you notice more coyotes, expect less fawn survival.  Coyotes and bear seek out fawns relentlessly.  I see maybe half the fawns here surviving the summer.....probably less.  There are so many coyotes, they wake us up in the middle of the night....I have seen them chase fawns many times....I have watched does try to defend fawns as two or more coyotes try for a kill.  Many times this goes on where you would end up in trouble if you shoot.  I always shoot coyotes where I can.....  if you care about your deer hunting, shoot coyotes on sight....its just one thing we can still do to try and make a difference.

As for the wolves, certainly they are a growing problem, and will need constant attention, but I fear our state politicians have too many IOU's out to the animal activists groups. We are being lied to and sold down the road.....

[shanevg]

We also saw very few deer this year compared to years past. We did see many more coyotes than we normally do as well. My buddy missed one coyote opening morning. With that in mind, almost 50% of the deer we saw were bucks and we hadthe most successful openin weekend in years with two bucks down in camp.

[Griz231]

I believe it is a combo of more yotes, bears, cougars, wolves, and the late wet weather.  The deer are hanging up high longer this year.  Everything is super green up there and really dry down low in the valley.  I have a place in Methow and we haven't seen near as many deer this year. 
I've hunted a weekend of archery, two weekends of muzzle, and one weekend so far for rifle and I haven't seen a legal buck yet.  My buddy saw one opening day rifle, but that's it.
In that time, I've seen three bears, all big, never had a good shot at them and one had two cubs with her.
We will be back over on Thursday for the rest of rifle, i'll let you all know how we do, if we stick to the Methow.  Might head up to the 204.

[CavemantheHunter]

I'll be back up there this weekend as well. My dad is there all week so hopefully he can find some. We hunted down low for half the time (where we usually see 20-30 deer) and saw nothing but a couple of yotes. We then moved up high to our other area and only saw a couple of does. I have heard the same thing from our local friends that there are far too many bears, yotes, cougars, and now wolves for the deer to thrive. It makes me sick. When I do go back next weekend, I may put my focus on the predator hunting instead.

[Griz231]

I'll be back up there this weekend as well. My dad is there all week so hopefully he can find some. We hunted down low for half the time (where we usually see 20-30 deer) and saw nothing but a couple of yotes. We then moved up high to our other area and only saw a couple of does. I have heard the same thing from our local friends that there are far too many bears, yotes, cougars, and now wolves for the deer to thrive. It makes me sick. When I do go back next weekend, I may put my focus on the predator hunting instead.

I hear you there.  I see any predators and they are dead!!!  I'm heading up higher somehow, someway, somewhere.

[CavemantheHunter]

How high are you planning on going? I was up anywhere from 5400 ft - 6800 ft the last two days and saw a ton of moose sign and a few deer, but nothing legal.

[Griz231]

How high are you planning on going? I was up anywhere from 5400 ft - 6800 ft the last two days and saw a ton of moose sign and a few deer, but nothing legal.

Really?? Son of a  *^@#$.   That  sucks.  I was planning on going up that high and maybe trying to go up to the snow line.  Not sure where.   

We usually do pretty good there in Libby Creek, which is from 1800 to 4000 feet where we hunt.  No good this year so far.  Just don't think the deer are down yet.

? I'm going crazy with this one.  
Thought about heading east over to the 204 or maybe up to Conconully.  Never hunted 204, but have done ok in past years up in Conconully.

[huntnphool]

Its not rocket science guys, its too early and warm for the migration. The bucks that are being killed for the most part are your 2.5-3.5 year olds, there are only so many that hang out locally.

 This is what so many of us have been complaining about for several years. It matters very little how long our season is if it starts in early to mid October, 95% of the deer you are going to see are local deer, the migrators arive toward the end of Oct. typically.

 Our WDFW guys know this, they set the season up with this in mind to limit the harvest. On any given year the deer numbers will change a little based on weather (snow) and the rut.

 WDFW are in the year of the season setting process, if you look ahead to next years callendar you will see that there is a Saturday the 13th and a Saturday the 20th. If they keep the same BS 9 day general season, it will be interesting to see if they give us back the end of Oct. or push the season back even further to start on the 13th and run through the 21st. Since someone mentioned the other day that all WDFW are interested in is revenue and working for the wolves, my guess is they will bend us over and start it on the 13th.

 Of course they may play politics and tell us they are hearing our complaints and tell us they are going to throw us a bone by making the season a couple days longer, then open the general on the 13th and close it in the middle of the week on Wednesday the 24th. This way they can say they are trying to please us while at the same time really doing us any favors. Again, its not how long the season is, its what time of year the season is. 9 days in the middle of the month will never produce the bucks that 9 days at the end of the month will.

 Why have we not gotten our longer seasons, that go to the end of Oct., back now that the deer numbers have rebounded since the winter of the early 90's?
 

[CavemantheHunter]

Griz - we went up Loup Loup and hunted a bunch up top there, also went up Gold Creek and hunted way up high by the snow line. I know there are bucks in there, but normally I see a lot more deer in both areas.

Huntnphool - I agree that the migratory bucks don't come till later, unless there's an early snow that pushes them down. I also agree that the young bucks are the ones that live down low and are the ones getting harvested. However, the dates and weather do not explain the fact that saw less than 1/5 of the amount of does that I normally see. This also does not explain why over half of the does had no yearlings.

[huntnphool]

 There are plenty of does throughout the valley right now, most are on private land in the river bottoms.

[huntnphool]

 You need to take a look at the calendar, at the last three years. You will see that this year, 2011, was the earliest season start of the last setting process, it only figures that given the warm weather and earlier start you are not seeing the same numbers as the previous years. Wait until the end of the week and then compare what you saw this season. My guess is by the end of the week you will start to see the numbers you are more accustomed to....... just in time for the season to close.

[CavemantheHunter]

There's only one way to find out, and I'll be there next weekend to find out.