WDFW Presumption of Guilt while Hunting - Frustration!

[flysar]

Last year I bought a compact Foxpro Scorpion electronic caller that easily fits in my butt pack. I thought if I always had it with me while scouting/hunting I would likely call for predators more often; used it quite a bit, called a few Bobcat and Yotes.

Fast forward to this year and because I can hunt Cougar during modern rifle deer in Klickitat County this year I thought maybe I'd buy a modern deer tag and after the morning hunt call for Cougar or Bear... better think again!

I called WDFW Enforcement Section out of Vancouver this morning and they said, didn't get their name, the fact that I had an electronic call in my pack while hauling a deer out of the woods I may be wrongly accused of using it... maybe someone heard me using it at some point during the season... No kidding!  They advised not to carry the call while hunting deer or don't harvest a deer if I have the call with me... I'm not going to buy the deer tag to eliminate all possible accusations.

Thought I'd pass the info along.

[buglebuster]

Some of the rules in this state 

[bigtex]

I called WDFW Enforcement Section out of Vancouver

Most likely you did not talk to anybody in WDFW Enforcement. 99% of the time you talk to someone about a regulation question at a WDFW regional office they are the general call receivers, not enforcement. In fact, rarely is a WDFW Enforcement person at the regional office, and usually it is only the Captain. FYI, Enforcement in Klickitat County is handled under WDFW Region 3 Enforcement. WDFW Region 5 is different in regards to enforcement, in general Wahkiakum and Klickitat Counties are under Region 5, but in regards to enforcement they are under Region 6 and 3.

[boneaddict]

Not sure why this is a surprise to anyone.   ITs like carrying your 30-06 while archery hunting for deer, just in case you see a bear.      ITs a good heads up though to keep people from making a bad mistake.

You could pick up a mouth call.  There are some DAMN good ones on here all the time, that are pieces of art let alone effective as heck.

[CedarPants]

Most likely you did not talk to anybody in WDFW Enforcement. 99% of the time you talk to someone about a regulation question at a WDFW regional office they are the general call receivers, not enforcement. In fact, rarely is a WDFW Enforcement person at the regional office, and usually it is only the Captain.

 

I spotted a wounded doe that had been struck by a car along Highway 2 a couple years ago while on my way home from turkey hunting.  Far from dead, but far from having the use of 3 of her 4 legs.  I called the regional office and the lady that answered the phone said "you said you were turkey hunting?  If you have a gun, go ahead and shoot her".

I declined.  The sheriff deputy and game warden that responded a half hour later to take care of her told me that while it would have been the ethical thing to do, it would have in fact been an illegal act and they apologized that I was instructed to do so.

I also don't think wardens in general presume you are guilty.  There are overzealous wardens, but I think they are the exception to the rule (from my experience anyway).  In a situation where you could have possibly been breaking the law (electronic call while deer hunting), I think it is their job to inquire as to why you have the call rather than ignore the fact that you have it.  Doesn't mean they think you are a thug.   

[flysar]

I called WDFW Enforcement Section out of Vancouver

Most likely you did not talk to anybody in WDFW Enforcement. 99% of the time you talk to someone about a regulation question at a WDFW regional office they are the general call receivers, not enforcement. In fact, rarely is a WDFW Enforcement person at the regional office, and usually it is only the Captain. FYI, Enforcement in Klickitat County is handled under WDFW Region 3 Enforcement. WDFW Region 5 is different in regards to enforcement, in general Wahkiakum and Klickitat Counties are under Region 5, but in regards to enforcement they are under Region 6 and 3.

I talked briefly with the general questions folks and asked to be transferred to enforcement. I talked with a gal who answered, enforcement office, and she put me on hold so se could talk with an enforcement officer. I did not personally talk with an enforcement officer but did hear her message loud and clear.

The answer I recvd sounded so plausible based on others experiences that unless I could get something in writing stating otherwise I'm not betting my hunting/fishing license on it.

If you hear something to the contrary I'd like to know.

[flysar]

Not sure why this is a surprise to anyone.   ITs like carrying your 30-06 while archery hunting for deer, just in case you see a bear.      ITs a good heads up though to keep people from making a bad mistake.

You could pick up a mouth call.  There are some DAMN good ones on here all the time, that are pieces of art let alone effective as heck.

I have several mouth calls but the electronic call has some bear and cougar vocalizations as well as some distress sounds that I can't immitate that I like to use in combo with the typical rabbit, deer, elk distress sounds.

[Heredoggydoggy]

Sounds to me like he was just alerting you to the possibility of trouble with the laws.  I also have a Foxpro Scorpion and like it a lot.  But I never carry it when deer hunting.  Even with mouth calls, I've had deer come to the distressed rabbit call.  It sounds a lot like a fawn bleat.

[flysar]

They used this situation for an analogy; if I was baiting deer with apples, etc, (legal) and a bear wandered in and I killed it, that would be baiting and is illegal.

I made it very clear to the person I talked with that if I was using my electronic call and a legal buck walked in I would not shoot it. That is when the "how would we know if" question came up and they advised me to not carry an electronic caller if I plan to hunt deer regardless if I used it or not to aid in the harvest.

The intent of my post is to strictly advise others of what one WDFW enforcement office stated to me regarding my question.  I also have left a voice mail message for the "Captain" of Region 3, I'll report what I hear from them. 

[BIGINNER]

i have a quick question its kind of on this topic,  if i was pheasant hunting,  and i carry a couple slugs with myself just in case i run into deer,.. i shouldn't get into any trouble, right.   of course if i have my dog with me i won't be shooting any deer

[Knocker of rocks]

Last year I bought a compact Foxpro Scorpion electronic caller that easily fits in my butt pack. I thought if I always had it with me while scouting/hunting I would likely call for predators more often......

Why would they even know it was in your pack?  Without probable cause, what is in your pack is your secret

[dreamunelk]

Don't know much about these things but, is it a predator call?  I would think that most officers would not even comment if you were playing a predator call during the modern deer season.  Just probably think you are no threat to the local deer population.

Educate me please!

[sebek556]

Don't know much about these things but, is it a predator call?  I would think that most officers would not even comment if you were playing a predator call during the modern deer season.  Just probably think you are no threat to the local deer population.

Educate me please!

fox pros are a electric predator call, you can pull out the micro SD card and program them to have any call you want on them. I personaly have over 50 calls for mine. I do have deer in distress but no normal deer call and I program mine for what I am going after that day. I would hope that as long as you do not have buck grunts or doe bleats on the call that they would not bug you about it.. 

[flysar]

The WDFW Enforcement Captain from Yakima called me yesterday, appologized for the late return call, and said that while having or using an electronic call might raise suspicion from one of his officers the burdon of proof lies with their office and he nor his officers want to bring "skinny" cases in front of a judge and look like fools.

We discussed different circumstances, bottom line, if I used an electronic call to assist in harvesting a deer that would be illegal, as written in the regs. Having a call or using it to call predators on a stand and then while walking in or out and seeing/harvesting a deer is legal. Harvesting a deer after a calling stand might be questionable because was that deer coming to the call even though the hunter was in the process of walking out; use your best judgement.

I thanked him for his call and informed him that it might be a good idea to pass this info along to other WDFW offices and enforcement officers so hunters would not hear regulation conflicting information.

[bearpaw]

The WDFW Enforcement Captain from Yakima called me yesterday, appologized for the late return call, and said that while having or using an electronic call might raise suspicion from one of his officers the burdon of proof lies with their office and he nor his officers want to bring "skinny" cases in front of a judge and look like fools.

We discussed different circumstances, bottom line, if I used an electronic call to assist in harvesting a deer that would be illegal, as written in the regs. Having a call or using it to call predators on a stand and then while walking in or out and seeing/harvesting a deer is legal. Harvesting a deer after a calling stand might be questionable because was that deer coming to the call even though the hunter was in the process of walking out; use your best judgement.

I thanked him for his call and informed him that it might be a good idea to pass this info along to other WDFW offices and enforcement officers so hunters would not hear regulation conflicting information.

Glad to hear you got a good response.... 
Not sure electronic calls are legal for any predators classified as big game though....