Opinions Please

[Machias]

What do you think, for illegal bear baiting to take place, does the bait have to be inside the State border?

[quadrafire]

  Better explain

[Machias]

Pretty self explanitory, in order to be charged with illegal bear baiting, does the "bait" have to be in WA?

[h20hunter]

So, you could have a bait 100 yards across the border, set up, whack boo boo as soon as he crosses the line coming or going to the bait.........interesting.

[Machias]

 

[runamuk]

I would fathom that it would depend on the person charged with investigating. 

I would think a bear bait on property that is on both sides of the state lines would be perfectly legal as long as the bait was in say Idaho....really kinda a loophole I think only a few people might use to their advantage  .... if the baits on the Idaho side and the hunting is happening on the WA side could be an issue if law enforcement wanted to make it one is my best guess

[Tony]

Interesting scenario but i would say if bait was in the other state you should be fine since you cant control were the bear travels. If Gammie was to check you out they shouldn't be checking across state line for bait is my opinion.

[Machias]

Well if you have a WA Hunting Lic and bear tag and you have an Idaho Hunting Lic, bear tag and a ID bear baiting permit, if you harvest a bear in WA coming to the bait in ID, do you think you could be charged?  I'm thinking not, but just curious what everone else thinks.  I appreciate the thoughts and opinions.

[Machias]

BigTex, any thoughts or opinions?   

[jmx369]

The problem comes in with "intent". Essentially, you are baiting the bear with the intent to harvest it in Washington. I would think that they would try to prosecute if you were caught. It seems to me that gammies only want to find fault and write tickets without any sort of discretion.
 

[Machias]

That would clearly be the "intent", just wondering if they could charge you since the "bait" or "substance", is not in WA and therefore not under the jurisdiction of the state....but I could very well be mistaken.   

[WAcoyotehunter]

haha- remember you can't bait deer/elk in Idaho...you could have both states after you if you played your cards right!! 

Deer hunting in Idaho with Washington bait and bear hunting in Washington with Idaho bait.  It's all so confusing....

[Machias]

 

[Helix]

I'm not a gammie or an attorney but my guess would be it dosn't matter where the bait is if you tag it with a WA tag you are subject to baiting not being allowed.  If you tag with an ID tag, you should not have shot it in WA...  Transporting untagged big game across state lines would probably get you in more trouble than the bait. 

[Machias]

If you tag with an ID tag, you should not have shot it in WA...  Transporting untagged big game across state lines would probably get you in more trouble than the bait. 

Absolutely, that would be a no brainer.   

[Hornseeker]

There is only one way to know for sure... you'd have to call the local gamie... I cant hardly see HOW they could ticket you!

[Machias]

There is only one way to know for sure... you'd have to call the local gamie... I cant hardly see HOW they could ticket you!

I have a call in.....err e-mail in.   

[saylean]

Man, thats a tough one. I think 'intent' would be the biggest issue here. Whatever the activity, I would just do it all legal in the ONE state.

[bucklucky]

What would probably happen is you would get a ticket and have to fight it in court. The bear was baited so yes it would be illegal no matter if the bait was in Idaho or washington. Just wait till he crosses into Idaho and there is nothing illegal.  Well as long as the Idaho tag is put on the bear.

[woodswalker]

While you may be able to skin through a loophole...its not an ethical thing to do... 

[Machias]

Well I would have to disagree with the ethical part, but we'll agree to disagree on that one.   
 
I have two conflicting answers from the WDFW, one that said no it's not illegal because the RCW covers the placement of bait and the RCW only covers land within the borders of WA and one who said it was illegal because it's still bear hunting over/near bait.  I have a minor problem with the one who said it was illegal being she is the same lady who gave out all the bad advice/information last year on the night hunting coyote issues.  BUT she may be right in this particular instance.  I'm wondering how they would legally collect evidence and proceed in court.  Can a WA Game Warden cross into another jurisdiction?  I imagine that they can, but I wonder what the process is like.  I thought it was an interesting topic, one that I was contemplating while sitting on my bear bait in ID.   

[Colville]

Playing with fire.
 
Personally, I don't think the location of the bait is what makes for "illegal baiting". The use of bait, regardless of where you place that bait, to attract and kill a bear is the crime. You've committed all of the elements of the crime in WA. You placed the bait, you hunted the bear, and killed the bear approaching the bait.  Putting the bait in ID doesn't change the facts. You killed a bear that you baited and did it in WA.
 
It's not an ethics issue because baiting is neither ethical or unethical. It's regulated in some places and not others. Idahoans aren't unethical because they allow baiting. We aren't "ethical" because we disallow it. However, it is illegal and I don't think you'll have much chance winning in court. You placed the bait, attracted the bear, killed the bear. Pretty sure you're gonna be DTR.
 
Lastly, if you don't get the rule admoninition in writing, it's not worth the time you spent on the phone. Jane said..... is worth far less than a cup a coffee at court.
 
The RCW: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.15.245
 
 

[Machias]

Playing with fire.
 
Lastly, if you don't get the rule admoninition in writing, it's not worth the time you spent on the phone. Jane said..... is worth far less than a cup a coffee at court.
 
The RCW: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.15.245
 
 

Agreed, I'm not advocating or saying I would do it.  Just thought it was an interesting conversation!  I would not risk my hunting privleges here in WA, It was something I was curious about and wanted everyone elses opinion....like the Title stated.   

[Colville]

Oh I know better Machias. Determined rule breakers don't go fishing around the net, publicly asking if they're going about it the right way!  Worse than the bottom line of legal/illegal is ever knowing what'll be enforced. One gamey gives an $80 ticket and a thanks for being honest and another gives a guy a date in court, couple thoussand in fees and lost hunting license.  I'm not big on crap shoots.   

[uplandhunter870]

i can see where you might be able to play the "i didnt know it was there" card if you only had a WA tag and killed the bear on WA property. but if you held WA and ID tags and whatever ID requires to run a bait pile then you could potentially be in hot water and as said above it depends on which gamie you get and what kind of day he/she is having.

ive ran into a gamie on one day and all that transpired was "you got your paperwork?" "yessir" "have a good day" and then run into the same gamie two days later and he obviously had an appendage slammed in a door and thought i was going to get a cavity search all so he could make sure i was legal.

its a crap shoot, if you like playing dice go for it. i for one suck at dice games so no thanks 

[Machias]

Thanks guys to adding to the conversation.  Couple of folks that I e-mailed said, hmm hadn't had that one asked before.   

[demontang]

For me there is no way I would take a chance with it. I would bet that you might get run though a ringer over something like that.

[Rhinoron247]

Not sure there is a bear big enough to warrent the risk, stress and hassle.  Seems if there are bear in the area they could be had without the potential drama.

 

[Curly]

Not sure there is a bear big enough to warrent the risk, stress and hassle.  Seems if there are bear in the area they could be had without the potential drama.

I don't know.......that was a very large bear that Machias posted up on trail cam pic a while back.

It is a very interesting topic for sure.  Personally, I think it should be legal since you are not baiting in WA.......but I can see a warden writing a ticket and seeing what a judge's opinion is on the matter.  I suppose the best person to ask would be the warden for the area and see what he would do if he checked you...........  

[bucklucky]

This is a interesting thread  I bet if they had to collect evidence possibly the Idaho Fish and game would then be involved.

Now throw  this in , what if that said bear ended up being shot  in washington and then ran over the border and died , now what? I bet that would further complicate things, I could see a big $hit storm happening then.

[Machias]

    
 
It would not be worth trying it out, even if you were able to beat it, it would cost you alot of time and money, just not worth the hassle or the damage it could do.
 
I am going to a wolf trapping class tomorrow in Couer d' Alene.  I'm going to ask the same question to them about baiting deer and elk, which is not allowed in ID.   

[bow4elk]

First, it's certainly an ethical question.  Even if it was legal, you have to question the intent.  I believe it would be considered illegal but WDFW Enforcement would be the decision-maker in this situation.  I think that the "activity of baiting bears in WA" is the real question (criminal intent).  It may well be a legal loophole but again, it comes down to ethics.  Bending laws can perceived as breaking them, and personally, I'd want no part in that conundrum!

Having said that, I'm vehemently opposed to Washington's bear baiting law - it was emotionally concieved and is utterly pointless!   

[Machias]

Great points!   

[6x6in6]

I'm of similar thinking as bow4.
Legally, the bait is another state.  Unless their is some form of "reciprocal" agreement out there, I think it boils down to state lines, where it was shot and ultimately where it's final resting place would be.
Ethics is a separate can of worms that I would not like to wander into in this instance.

[bucklucky]

Keep us posted on what you find out !

[Machias]

 

[couesbitten]

Isn't this kind of like fishing during the open whitefish season on the Klickitat and catching a steelhead?  You cast out, have no control over what takes your lure, just release the steelhead you hooked when you get him to the bank (I realize that you're not going to release the black bear).

So I'm hunting in WA, and I shoot a bear that is traveling to ID to feed on a bait station.  I have no control over where said bear is traveling.  Weather I'm aware of the bait or not, it's legal in the state it's located in.  How would the Warden even be aware of said bait?

I don't think you'd be flagrantly breaking the law, but you'd definately be squeezing through a loophole.

[mtman]

sounds like a good idea. If I lived on the border I would try it.

[Gobble Doc]

I'm curious what you hear.  I suspect a 90% chance of not getting caught.  My other thought is that Lawyers are expensive. 

[rasbo]

better know "exactly" where the border lies...I would say if you walked across the border with bait,and later took a bear on this side going to your bait,you would get nailed...The act of baiting started on this side,and finished with a kill...put an Idaho tag on it No problem