My not true spike

[Rooster1981]

I may be the odd man out here and not congratulate you. But I read this as setting a REALLY bad example for a young hunter (your 16 yr old buddy), if you are the mentor. I am using your intro story for these facts, and if they are not right correct me, but To take a running shot at a bull you THINK is legal at 300 yrds (in a true spike area I might add). I personally find that very poor judgement.
So for all out there that do not agree with the management changes don't hunt the region if you can't comply with the rules. No different than the 4pt whitetail in the NE corner. It is what it is.

 quadrafire you are correct I made pour judgment and I had to face the consequences. I didn't post this thread to get a pat on the back. I posted this thread because so many guys shoot and leave game and it goes to waste. I wanted to share my story so others could learn from my situation and if any one who reads this ends up in the same situation they will hopefully do the same as I did and call it in. There are tons of bulls over there that have small kickers that are just incredibly hard to see until you are right on top of them. I wont make any excuses for what I did, and I know all to well what I went through and It will never happen to me again.

[colockumelk]

Elkahawlic and remington you are correct. True spike does little for the elk herd, it does nothing for the people who pay to maintain that elk herd other than entrap people.

The only thing it does is create a trophy unit for Tribal Hunters and Poachers. Not bashing the tribes they didn't make the antler restrictions. Just stating the obvious.   The WDFW has completely failed in that unit.

[quadrafire]

I may be the odd man out here and not congratulate you. But I read this as setting a REALLY bad example for a young hunter (your 16 yr old buddy), if you are the mentor. I am using your intro story for these facts, and if they are not right correct me, but To take a running shot at a bull you THINK is legal at 300 yrds (in a true spike area I might add). I personally find that very poor judgement.
So for all out there that do not agree with the management changes don't hunt the region if you can't comply with the rules. No different than the 4pt whitetail in the NE corner. It is what it is.

 quadrafire you are correct I made pour judgment and I had to face the consequences. I didn't post this thread to get a pat on the back. I posted this thread because so many guys shoot and leave game and it goes to waste. I wanted to share my story so others could learn from my situation and if any one who reads this ends up in the same situation they will hopefully do the same as I did and call it in. There are tons of bulls over there that have small kickers that are just incredibly hard to see until you are right on top of them. I wont make any excuses for what I did, and I know all to well what I went through and It will never happen to me again.

[MIKEXRAY]

I also think it is great that you did the right thing.     When I read this whole topic it struck me as funny that guys were blaming the state for making regulations that cause guys to break the rules.  That is the dumbest statement I have read in a long time on here. The obvious solution is if you can't correctly identify your target at 300 yards, then you won't be able to take 300 yard shots ! You will have to limit your range to a max limit of proper identification.  I'm not saying the spike rule does any good for the herd or justifying the state regs, I just don't agree that it is the states fault in any way.  Might be a dumb rule but it is the rule we need to follow & it is the hunters responsibility to know his target. No matter how small of a detail.   Mike

[saylean]

I hunt true spike units with archery gear, and everyone in our hunt camp it 'gun shy' with this reg. Its difficult sometimes at 30 yards to ensure the animal is not a 1x2, let alone 300 yards on the run.
Good work for fessing up and trying to do the right thing. Poor work for taking the shot. Glad to hear the animal didnt go to waste, glad to hear the quad boys got what they deserved, hopefully you learned to take extra care on confirming your animal before pulling the trigger.

NOTE: I am not perfect by any means, just wanted to chime in.

[brianmtsinc]

I agree with both main positions stated in this thread.  It is our responsibilities as hunters to know our target - no question about it.  It is also sometimes very difficult to count points - even at 20 yards - and mistakes happen.  My dad always taught me that it is not the mistakes we make in life, but rather how we respond to those mistakes that make us who we are. 

In the end, I say "good on you" for owning up and not letting it lay there. 

My hunting partner made a great choice a year or two ago to pass on a spike that was in front of a trail camera.  I'm afraid that had I been the one to to check the camera that afternoon, I might have shot - I can't honestly say.     Hopefully I can get him to post the pic.

[colockumelk]

MIKEXRAY laws and rules have been stricken or modified because they were deemed entrapment before.  A law or rule or reg or whatever is "unconstitutional" if the wording of it causes citizens to unknowingly break the law.  True Spike is one of those laws.  A legal point is one that is anything longer than 1".  At 300yds you can not see a 1" sticker with optics unless maybe you have a spotting scope.  When I saw a group of 4 spikes at 300-400yds I glassed them carefully.  1 was obviously not a "true spike" but the other three were 100% definately a true spike.  With my quality 10x binos on a good rest I looked the other three over for a good while before I started my stalk.  All three were definately without a doubt 100% true spikes.  Fast forward 3 hours later when I had stalked up to them within bow range.  One was a 2x2.  He had 1-2" fork on each side.  One was a 1x2 with a 2-3" fork on one side.  The true spike I shot was the ONLY one that was actually a true spike. 

So you can do everything right in your power to ensure that you are shooting a legal animal but then when you walk up to it have it turn out it wasn't.  IF I had been rifle hunting I would have had a 2/3 chance of becoming a POACHER.  That's why its ENTRAPMENT. 

[backyard bucks]

well i think the solution to those 1" kickers would be to have a set of these in your pack.. 

[colockumelk]

Well the 1x2 was still in velvet so if I had made a mistake it would have been pretty easy to fix.   

[AKBowman]

I may be the odd man out here and not congratulate you. But I read this as setting a REALLY bad example for a young hunter (your 16 yr old buddy), if you are the mentor. I am using your intro story for these facts, and if they are not right correct me, but To take a running shot at a bull you THINK is legal at 300 yrds (in a true spike area I might add). I personally find that very poor judgement.
So for all out there that do not agree with the management changes don't hunt the region if you can't comply with the rules. No different than the 4pt whitetail in the NE corner. It is what it is.

But its not we as "hunters" that are screwing up the B to C ratio which is the whole reason for WDFW switching to True Spike it is the unregulated killing of elk during the summer and early fall months by the Natives. THAT IS THE ISSUE HERE. Nothing will get better no matter what happens until this is addressed. Think about it, the Native season is approximately 90 days and the WDFW season is one week. Which group do you think enacts a bigger toll?

I agree with this statement.  Though the true spike restriction is the toughest antler restriction to swallow, in my experience any restriction causes problems.  Last year we found two 2 point deer shot and left in a 3 point minimum area.  I also know of a bigger bull that was shot (raghornish) in the clockum last year.  I agree with the permit idea.  If we as hunters are messing up this often, and the numbers are so bad they require these type of regulations, make it Permit only.

[AKBowman]

Meant to post:

But its not we as "hunters" that are screwing up the B to C ratio which is the whole reason for WDFW switching to True Spike it is the unregulated killing of elk during the summer and early fall months by the Natives. THAT IS THE ISSUE HERE. Nothing will get better no matter what happens until this is addressed. Think about it, the Native season is approximately 90 days and the WDFW season is one week. Which group do you think enacts a bigger toll?

[Glockster]

To the OP; maybe only 1% of people would do the right thing and not only self report, but lay it out in public so that others might learn from your mistake.   

Hats off to you sir.

[MIKEXRAY]

That does not make any sense what so ever.  You are actually arguing and making the point that people should not take 300 yard shots because they definitely can not identify their  target at that range.  Obviously they need to sneak closer as you did with your bow, make the proper identity & then take the shot.  To call it entrapment or unconstitutional is a little far fetched & a stretch. No matter what,  people should know their target. Period. That may mean not taking 300 yard shots, running shots or any shot where people have any doubt. I don't see your argument in the slightest.  Mike

[igotbigbulls]

Posted by: AKBowman
« on: Today at 03:01:56 PM » Insert Quote
Meant to post:

But its not we as "hunters" that are screwing up the B to C ratio which is the whole reason for WDFW switching to True Spike it is the unregulated killing of elk during the summer and early fall months by the Natives. THAT IS THE ISSUE HERE. Nothing will get better no matter what happens until this is addressed. Think about it, the Native season is approximately 90 days and the WDFW season is one week. Which group do you think enacts a bigger toll?


answer-numbers wise. you

[Ddog73]

Meant to post:

But its not we as "hunters" that are screwing up the B to C ratio which is the whole reason for WDFW switching to True Spike it is the unregulated killing of elk during the summer and early fall months by the Natives. THAT IS THE ISSUE HERE. Nothing will get better no matter what happens until this is addressed. Think about it, the Native season is approximately 90 days and the WDFW season is one week. Which group do you think enacts a bigger toll?

How did all the natives unregulated killing of all the bulls make this hunter shoot what he thought was a true spike but ended up having a little point on one of the spikes??