A Question about seasons and units

[NoBark]

If this is the wrong place for this, mods, please move it to the right place.


Off season thinking going on in my head.  Here is what I would like to get an answer to.

Background:   
There are fewer hunters than there use to be. (license sales)
It's as crowded as ever come hunting season (my observation)

Logic would dictate that crowding would become less of an issue as numbers diminish, but, I don't see that happening.  WHY?



My thoughts so far.  (and I want to hear yours)   
Over the years we have been given fewer places to hunt general season and
(at least archers) just missed getting a bunch of land in the 200 units wacked off last season-setting period from the late feneral season. 

I would like a good reason why if a unit is open to either deer or elk, why isn't it open to all 3 user groups?   
If a unit has special permits for  one group, why  not all three?  Example: Chewuch unit.  Late special rifle draw but not Archery or Muzzy.  Alta unit is special draw rifle and muzzy but not archery..


My point is this.   We have a lot of areas that have animals but are crowded into relatively small areas.  I say, open it up! spread us out!   
 

[wraithen]

Then they won't be able to move further into a more expensive way to hunt. They will probably allow jumping into more gmu's for a small added fee. You are correct on the fewer hunters more crowding. We lose access more and more. It keeps getting reported and it seems like there's no way to fix it. Kinda sad these days. Even the state's congress thinks wdfw is mucking things up for us. At this point they seem to be more helpful than the agency we pay for.

[ICEMAN]

Private landowners are gating up property.

State lands are gated.

Federal and state lands have areas which are de-commissioned for motorized travel which concentrates hunters.


Less people in far less areas= higher hunter concentration.

[DoubleJ]

It's getting to the point where we're going to have to do like people in Texas have done.  Buy a couple hundred acres, get a few deer on the property, and high fence them in.

[wraithen]

If you want easy hunting access you are correct double j. There are tons of areas though that if you're willing to walk in a few miles you will have great opportunities. I'm actually thinking about taking up mountain biking for this very reason.

[colockumelk]

If you want easy hunting access you are correct double j. There are tons of areas though that if you're willing to walk in a few miles you will have great opportunities. I'm actually thinking about taking up mountain biking for this very reason.

[bearpaw]

Good topic NoBark.

In many cases the gated areas are due to past land-use problems, some cases it is just a change in management, and in some cases hunters are asking for closures.

I know some of you look down your nose at overweight hunters, but in my opinion they should be afforded equal opportunity. While gated areas may be good for wildlife, they take away form certain users more than others, overweight, elderly, youth, handicapped, etc. I have real concerns that by making more and more areas inaccessible to more and more hunters we are adding to the problem of eliminating our sport.

Some of the younger hunters don't realize it now, but some day you will wake up and ralize you can no longer hike 5 miles into a hard to access hunting area. If we have made everthing gated or roadless, where are you going to hunt? Where are you going to take your grandkids hunting?

This is no doubt one big reason for hunter crowding. I think we need to be very careful with this gated and roadless movement. Even though they don't realize it now, someday it will affect the very people who are pushing so hard for it now.

[boneaddict]

There are a couple main reasons for crowding.  One  is the decrease in public land available to hunt, and the increase of posted private land.  Using the Methow Valley as reference.  Back in the day, folks didn't care if you hunted on their land or used their land to access state or forest.   Then it became the hip thing to throw up a sign and blakc access to chunks of state.  Now you have your own playground.   Also, all those land holding to folks that come and visit once a year.    I would bet there are quite a few folks on here that have land somewhere, or have had the idea cross through there head, my land is up against state so......

Next reason.....   season allocation and length of seasons.   This can be debated all day long.   But essentially you have to hunt along with everyone else in the same weekend, same week.  This can go as deep as technology, harvest, or basic resource management.  You'll here lots of politics on this one.    This is also the one that wolves are going to impact.

[NoBark]

If you want easy hunting access you are correct double j. There are tons of areas though that if you're willing to walk in a few miles you will have great opportunities. I'm actually thinking about taking up mountain biking for this very reason.

Good thoughts but I want to stay away from this gated access stuff. That is a small part of the bigger picture IMO.  If a unit is open to one user group, it should be open to all three. Period.  More access over larger areas.  Same number of hunters, same harvest results, just less crowding.  If I were a muzzy hunter, I'd be screaming at the lack of places to go!  They are getting ripped off in my opinion. 

They can't use the 'control of harvest' angle either.  They know exactly what the harvest will be for each user group. It's not rocket science.    I'm not a road hunter, and I like my solitude, but sometimes the animals are easy to see and drive to.


Is it a weapons choice issue or people management issue for them??


By the way, I know in Utah, they actually have staff that interact with the hunting public on a public forum like this.  Ansering questions or getting answers they don't have.  Amazing.  Wish we had that here.

[wraithen]

Don't get me wrong guys, I would rather not have to go in miles from my rig. My rig is vulnerable to vandals and thieves and I'm a bit of a clutz to begin with. I would rather see more access to more land. This state makes hunting a challenge even for able bodied folks. I'm not even going to get started on the overweight thing other than to say that while I may be faster in a run, there are some big dudes that put me to shame as far as trudging through the woods. I start seeing pins of light zigging around just from a short walk up a hill. Darn cigarettes.

[Rainier10]

Private landowners are gating up property.

State lands are gated.

Federal and state lands have areas which are de-commissioned for motorized travel which concentrates hunters.


Less people in far less areas= higher hunter concentration.

[buckfvr]

I fully understand where the gate thing is going and oppose it for that reason only.

At the same time, this sense of entitlement ( disabled persons aside ), that seems to have grown exponentially in the last few years is wrong.  I have to disagree on accommodating  youths, seniors, and overweight/physically unfit hunters.  When I was a kid, if you couldnt hack it, you werent ready to hunt, period.  When you get too old, you hang out in camp and enjoy other aspects of the hunt.  Thats how I watched my many uncles and Dad  progress in their hunting life.  Im of the age ( late 50's ), where I now know for certain the day will come.......Ill do what I can to prolong my hunting life, and  believe I have plenty of good hunts left, but certainly, I am not concerned about the State or anyone else accommodating me.  I strongly feel we all have the same opportunity in life and as hunters.....and its each of our own responsibilites to make sure we can take advantage of that opportunity.   If you cant stay in decent enough shape to hunt.....thats your own problem, no one elses.  If you are a youth, your time will come....if you are getting older, you're in the same boat as I am, so do what you can to take advantage of whats left.......

[Bob33]

"In many cases the gated areas are due to past land-use problems"

If hunters want more access, they should start by looking at finding a way to reduce the impact of increasing numbers of slob and inconsiderate hunters.  I'm appalled sometimes at the disrespect hunters have for both public and private property: demanding that landowners leave gates open (and advocating destroying them if they're not), leaving litter and trash behind, defacing property, and other actions that lead to more and more gates being put up.

[NoBark]

We certainly n be our worst enemy sometimes Bob.   I just can't help but think of all the units that rifle hunters get to hunt in and archers and muzzleoaders don't.  We know access is limited by private companies and people. Why mke it worse by putting groups in even smaller areas?