(poll added) Management input on Colockum Elk

[gonehuntin68]

ok so lets say it is permit only for us but how do they stop the natives from shooting them all, thats not fair to us. This is a serious question in not tryin to start a fight.

[colockumelk]

The WDFW has the right/power/ability/authority whatever you want to call it to limit/regulate tribal harvest for the purpose of preserving/conserving the species. If there is a general season then the WDFW doesn't have the authority. But if its permit only the WDFW does. Kind of like in the Nooksak.

Also road closures like I mentioned above would reduce tribal harvest there by half if not more.

[Rainier10]

The big problem is displacing all of those hunters if they go permit only.  I think the first option should be to close the roads and see what that does in the first three years and patrol the heck out of it.  As long as you are patrolling take some video of what the tribe is harvesting and go public with it.  Increasing cow harvest is another option if the area will really only support 4500 elk but I haven't seen any reports of a massive starvation like around St Helen's a few years back.  The farmers may think the area will only hold 4500 elk but hey you are farming on elk wintering grounds.  And if those two options don't accomplish a stronger herd then look at going permit only as a last ditch effort to save the herd.

[400out]

Question: do they (ranchers) Run cattle on elk grounds during the summer?

[colockumelk]

There are cattle up there. But I don't tho.k there is a lack of feed. Rainier if it went permit only you would only displace maybe 1,800 hunters. 12,000 guys already hunt the Yakima herd so another 1,800 wouldn't do much. Especially since in 2001 just ten years ago 23,000 hunters hunted the Yakima herd.

There is plenty of feed. I am not sure why their herd goal is only 4,500. In 2000 it was 6,500. The only thing I can Thu.k of is the WDFW lowered their standards and goals. Since they can't accomplish much. 

[Elkaholic daWg]

The WDFW has the right/power/ability/authority whatever you want to call it to limit/regulate tribal harvest for the purpose of preserving/conserving the species. If there is a general season then the WDFW doesn't have the authority. But if its permit only the WDFW does. Kind of like in the Nooksak.

Also road closures like I mentioned above would reduce tribal harvest there by half if not more.

Okay....here it is with a lot of oldtimer blathering mixed in




 "A few of you guys know this herd intimately, if you could change the management to try and improve this herd, what changes do you think would work the best to improve this herd?"

 I may not have done the research numbers like Colockumelk has, but we are 46 years and four generations intimate with the Colockum Elk herd and it's central to northern range.

 Throughout the majority of the years spent hunting there things were fine. Before green dot we drove almost anywhere. And yes the Game Reserve was  bordered on 3 sides by open roads. Before 1972 the Colockum Pass  road was the  eastern boundary of the reserve, not Brewton road. There were a lot more hunters up there then than now
 In the early 80s They came up with resource allocation and, moved the season from November to the last week of October. Didn't didn't like it but What could WE do?
  Before this time elk season started either on a Sunday,or Monday.They also came up with an early and late tag and moved the opener for the early tag to Saturday, late tag on Monday. WHY some would ask, would anyone then buy a late tag?!?!?!?! Here is your answer. Special permits were only available to those who had purchased LATE tags. This was obviously before they discovered their cash cow. There also was no east or west tag....there was western, Blue mountain, Yakima,or Colockum tags, so you were more restricted east than you are now as to where you could go.
  Was it 1994 that they expanded the Blue mountain "Spike only" to the Yakama, and Colockum herds.
 Didn't like that either, but (once again)What could we do? In the early years there was a very noticeable increase in branched animals. and we ALL started feeding the cash cow! there were about 60 any bull permits issued in the Naneum, Mission, and Quilomene GMU's at that time. Now we have what, 6 all weapons?  Colockum/Mission has become an OIL tag.
 Things were okay for about 10 years and IT happened.What was it? would we call it racial discrimination, or just Gregoire, Casino campaign money? DNR Logging ? whatever it is, it has ruined a great area
  In 2008 I attended the March final 3 year season setting Comm. meeting in Ellensburg and commented  I would rather close the area for a couple years than go permit only. Since then it has got no better.  we have been sacrificing  since 1994 for what......
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"Somehow Phill Lancaster from East Wenatchee has got to be stopped. If anyone would like to stop by and talk to him about it, his home address is 45 south June, East wenatchee.  This guy is single handidly destroying the herd.  He isnt helping the deer herds around here either."

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 Now this is only ONE individual! I also hear there is another "problem child" family on the other side of the hump.

 This year at the meeting in Moses lake I will be promoting  Permit only since I hear in an emergency OTC closure to permit only will put the NA's and us on the same level.  Am I wrong on that CE

Rifle: 228 cows x 85% success rate equals 270 cow permits
ML:  52 cows x  40% success rate equals  permits 130 cow permits
Archery: 70 cows x 25% success rate equals 280 cow permits
Total Permits 680


Rifle: 130 bulls x 65% success rate equals 200 Any Bull permits
ML:  30 bulls x 40% success rate equals 75  Any bull permits
Arhcery: 40 bulls x 20% success rate equals 200 Any bull permits.
Total Permits 475
 

They would probably be wise to increase the group size for this particular SP,since there are some large camps up there/OR in our case there are 4 separate families in camp and many of us just love the experience of just being there ,so we would probably put in  in 3-4 smaller groups so that the chances would be better we would have a reason to go at all.
 If not we would certainly invade someone else's area.

 Now as  a 1/2, or 1, or 5 mile buffer around the Art Coffin Game RESERVE ( not refuge or preserve) and all other road closure issues .......Comparing  the roads in the 328/329 and the 251 is definately apples to oranges. In the 251 you have only 2 access roads Colockum Pass and Schaller/Jumpoff with Naneum road connecting them bordering the reserve. There is much more cover on the open side of this road than Colockum pass rd. until you get to the DNR mess beyond 4 corners( which is abou3/8 mile from the reserve.)
 
In the four miles between  the monument at Colockum/Naneum junction to the Wood line  at four corners there were (M/R) less than 10 camps. Now lets compare that to the number (Colockum pass) of camps from the the reserve south  toward that steel line. How many, and LARGE camps, and much more wide open flat country. I would estimate  at least five times more camps and hunters,and that's only about a 3 mile distance.
 I suppose you could close the Brewton,and then the Reserve would only have a road on the north border. But as we have read in other threads, that there are some N. A's that don't need a road, or the lands commissioner has passed out keys

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  My idea is permit only (ech!) Colockum. Consider the early/late tag thing again if not permit only.  and figure out whatever it is that can stop the slaughter of our big bulls  by unlicensed untagged hunters who have months to do their damage,and have been for too long. 

 Or close it all together for a couple years

 Sorry for all the added history........

[colockumelk]

Elkaholic. That is an AWESOME and well thought out post. That post deserves a well thought out response. I only have internet on my phone so when I get to work I will have time to give you the thought out response it deserves. I will say agree 100%.

[bearpaw]

buming this up for more comments... 

[danderson]

Its pretty obvious at this point in the overall managment of the colockum heard that its not working, close the access off to all EXCEPT  ground powders only, for one year, then see what happens, then if the ratio of bulls to cows doesnt improve, go to 3-point minimum.

[jechicdr]

When they turned Bumping archery into spike only, most of the hunters went north or sough to rimrock and little naches, essentially giving the bumping a break from some archery harvest.  Not sure what impact it has had on populations, but I imagine it would improve.  Only thing that would likely work better than decreasing pressure is more habitat.  A more liberal season (like spike instead of true spike) in certain areas of colockum where populations are greatest may actually go further than just limiting 'everything' in the area to true spike.  Though it may concentrate hunters, may leave a lot of less hunted habitat to feed into the population in following years.  Can also rotate the areas that are true spike vs spike and hunters will voluntarily choose not to hunt some areas.  Agree with road closures as well.  Is winter habitat what limits the herds?  Is there room for feed stations to support population in winter (I know this is controversial)

[bone collector 12]

 

Its pretty obvious at this point in the overall managment of the colockum heard that its not working, close the access off to all EXCEPT  ground powders only, for one year, then see what happens, then if the ratio of bulls to cows doesnt improve, go to 3-point minimum.

[C-Money]

Plenty of grass for the deer, elk and cattle up in the Colockum. If permit only would put us all on a level playing field, let look hard at doing it! I must say it again, we need to figure out how to let folks who are not breaking any laws, continue to access to the land, and green dot roads.

[Happy Gilmore]

Where exactly is considered, "escapement"? Farmland across the river? Mathison's apple orchards? All of the access from the Wentachee side? I would hate nothing more than to lose the recreational opportunities on the ridge from the Columbia River to Blewett Pass. Suggesting additional closures and access to public lands for multi-use purposes is something which I cannot agree upon however much I'd rather see the "few" who abuse the laws and privleges like those aforementioned. I've spent a lot of time year round in those hills. Elk and idiots are plentiful. Manage the idiots and the elk will be fine. They've been there for a long time. Many strategies have been attempted. We have less access now than the area has ever had and it has been a popular destination for elk hunters for a long, long time.

Many non-hunters have helped keep these types of areas available for recreation and us hunters need to reasonably support the "others" to keep the balance of use. Without use by many, it means we will have less as a group.

[colockumelk]

Elkaholic again that was very well said and thankyou for the input.  46 years is alot of valuable input and experience.  IMHO experience trumps research any day.  But when trying to convince others people like to see those nice blue sources cited.  Your first part is a great insite into how the Colockum used to be.  I will say that talking to the bios historically the Colockum has always had a lower bull:cow ratio.  Due to I think the fact that road density is higher and because they do not migrate out of the high country like the Yakima herd does.  I think the migration part is the biggest reason.  Because the Yakima herd does migrate and spends most of its time in the high country far away from roads and people.  But the Colockum spends it whole life near roads and people.  But without a doubt I bet things were much better back then than they are now.  I mean really how could they be any worse.

Yes if the WDFW takes an area from OTC to permit only to preserve the herd due to failing numbers and considers it for conservation then yes they have the legal right to restrict tribal harvest.  There are some things that we as citizens would need to do to ensure that the WDFW actually does this.  Just because the WDFW has the legal right to do so, doesn't mean they will.  Because the WDFW has shown a pattern of not standing up for hunters rights if it means any sort of tribal confrontation.  So the answer to your question Elkaholic dawg is yes they have the legal right to do so.  But the question I have is would they.  This is where us as hunters need to start holding the WDFW feet to the fire. 

The other part of this is people mistakingly reference the Boldt Decision with big game.  The Boldt Decision has NOTHING to do with big game.  It was solely about fishing and specifically about commercial fishing.  I have read it a few times and I have NEVER seen anything about big game.  So people tribal and non-tribal associate the Boldt Decision with big game.  The other mistake people make is the Boldt Decision gave the tribal commercial fisherman the right to their "fair share".  Most people take this as that the tribes get half of everything.  This is also not true.  The Boldt Decision specifies what it means by "fair share".  And "fair share" means if you have 9 licensed hunters and 1 tribal hunter.  And there is 10 elk.  The licensed hunters have a right to 9 elk and the tribal hunter gets one elk.  It does not mean that the 1 tribal hunter gets 5 elk to himself and the 9 licensed hunters have to share the other 5.  This is probably the biggest misunderstanding about the Boldt Decision.

Now if the WDFW did limit tribal harvest then I am sure the Yakama's would take them to court.  But this would take a few years so the elk would be safe. For that time.  Now even though the Boldt Decision does not deal with big game hunting, it could be used as legal precidence.  But this would be a good thing for licensed hunters.

I think that smart road managment would have the largest impact on unrestricted tribal harvest.  The more you make these guys walk the less animals they are going to kill.  Lets face it the Colockum as far as terrain goes is pretty tame.  And with all the roads up there you have some pretty easy access to some big bulls.  You can get a big bull without much effort.  So the guys that are up there dropping multiple big bulls are not the guys who are willing to burn some boot leather and hike in for a couple of miles like Plateau.  These guys want the biggest kill with the least amount of effort.  So you do some smart road managment and you are going to severely put a damper on the amount of bulls they have access to. 

Elkaholic thank you for the heads up and input on exactly where and how many camps there are.  But your example brings up a good point.  Less people hunt the 251 side because there are less roads.  Alot less roads.  There are also alot less animals killed.  IMHO this shows that road managment does work.  Also your description of where the roads are and exact roads in relation to the coffin game reserve shows that maybe a perfect 1 mile circle would not work.  It might look more like an ameoba.  But I am firm in the belief that the best thing we can do for that elk herd is make sure that there is as large a buffer as possible between the boundaries of the game reserve and an open road.  I think the impact would be very dramatic.  In a positive way.  Even if this means that you can no longer drive from Colockum Pass road to Coleman etc. 

My goal in road managment is to close the least amount of roads possible, and still get the results we need.  Which is more escapement for the spikes from the licensed hunters and more escapement for the branch bulls from the tribal hunters and poachers. 

[colockumelk]

Plenty of grass for the deer, elk and cattle up in the Colockum. If permit only would put us all on a level playing field, let look hard at doing it! I must say it again, we need to figure out how to let folks who are not breaking any laws, continue to access to the land, and green dot roads.

Yeah plenty of grass for all mentioned above.  I don't want it to go permit only yet.  I would like some cow managment and some smart road managment and then see how that does before going to permit only.  Going to permit only is a big step one that we may never get back.  I would like to see that done as a last resort.  But....  if we have to do it to save the herd then I am 100% for it. 

As far as road managment goes.  I would like to close the least amount of roads possible and still achieve our goal.  I think the road closures I mentioned that creates a 1 mile buffer betweent he resrve boundaries and an open road would do this, without having to close other roads down.  The other thing I would like to see is all those roads that don't have a green dot and that have a red sign.  They need to actually CLOSE those roads.  The WDFW mentioned that they are having problems with road managment and enforcement.  Well no    you think.  Does the WDFW really think that a red sign nailed to a tree on the side of the road is going to stop people from driving passed it?  No of course it wont.  So they need to put up gates or mine fields or whatever so that those closed roads are actually closed.

So if I was boss for a day.  I would do 2 things.  Step 1.) Physically close and barrier the roads that are already posted.  Step 2.) create the 1 mile buffer around the game reserve.  Then monitor.  And see if this is enough.

 Because you guys are correct.  Hunters are not the only ones that use those roads.  However I will provide this little caveat.  Alot of times we complain about how DNR manages their roads.  And how they do not create enough escapement or they cut too many trees down or not enough trees.  Their job is forest managment and not elk and deer managment.  So they should manage their roads and forests based on their goal.  Which is to make money off of trees.  Now the WDFW job is todo two things, properly manage the elk and deer herds, so they are at the proper sustainment level and so that the deer and elk herds are at the proper boy:girl ratio.  Therefore I believe that the WDFW should manage the roads on their property based upon creating enough escapement to accomplish the afore mentioned goals.