Ranger shot at Mt. Rainier NP

[Dmanmastertracker]

BARC3 you ate correct. I should have clarified. I should have said non violent crime free lives.  And yea if someone doesn't get T.reeted with PTSD  its because they didn't want help.

 Because they are Dr's and would know the difference? Treatment takes diagnosis, it's an illness, not a jacket you put on and take off.

[Fowlweather25]

  PTSD as well as most other mental illnesses are not easily detected by the ones "infected" with them. I agree with colokumelk that the military has treatment available but I don't agree that people with PTSD are able to pinpoint their issue easily and just say hey I need help. I'm a firefighter/emt and I've seen dead children and pulled dead people out of buildings. Luckily in the fire service we have a strong support structure. I never that I was that affected until someone mentioned to me to possibly get checked out.

[BAR C3]

Fowlweather you bring up a good point. Most Type A guys which I believe most of us on here are, don't want to admit they have an issue. It's easier for us to bottle it up and hit the bottle or other things. But like Colockum said at the begining, who knows what kind of issues this guy had prior and now add PTSD to it. Most guys with PTSD don't go out and kill innocent people.

[Heartsblood]

 

PTSD as well as most other mental illnesses are not easily detected by the ones "infected" with them. I agree with colokumelk that the military has treatment available but I don't agree that people with PTSD are able to pinpoint their issue easily and just say hey I need help. I'm a firefighter/emt and I've seen dead children and pulled dead people out of buildings. Luckily in the fire service we have a strong support structure. I never that I was that affected until someone mentioned to me to possibly get checked out.

It's not a choice. Period. Anyone who thinks all someone who is suffering from PTSD needs to do is choose to get help, lacks the kind of understanding that is necessary to treat PTSD in the first place. It's not about will power. Best leave it to the experts. Even if a suffer gets to the point of reaching out for help, it's anything but a foregone conclusion that treatment will work. It is hard, hard work to recover from the types of trauma that create PTSD. Not everyone can do it. It's a messy situation all around because as we see, it doesn't only affect the one who has PTSD.

So, so sad...

[Ranger91298]

And yea if someone doesn't get T.reeted with PTSD  its because they didn't want help.

Colockumelk, I can't agree more with everything you have said. I am not trying to threadjack but it frustrates me how much people allow themselves to be influenced by what the news says. Everyone is quick to believe that the military is not doing enough for its veterans regarding PTSD. People need to wake up and breath in a little reality. If you don't know the facts then don't assume. The military has all the services needed for Service Members to get help but if a person is too macho or chooses not to let the system help them then who's fault is it? At the same time the government doesn't help either. Our government is so fricken far in debt that they are cutting our own throats. They are so quick to provide Trillions of dollars to other countries in the time of need when we have our own issues within our own borders. We throw millions and millions of dollars to all these greedy corporations that were going under but yet who suffers for it; our own taxpayers foot the bill. The very people that are struggling to make ends meat all while these millionaire/billionaire corporations get off easy.  In the end everything costs money. So, if the military loses money from the Federal Government to help provide support for such things as PTSD I don't see how it is the militaries fault if the government is pissing away money to other countries or these large corporations w/their yearly multi-million dollar bonuses.
Just yesterday I was watching some NFL games and the commentators were remarking on who is going to get fired at the end of the season. You ever wonder how much influence or how much these owner's or GM's pay attention to them and let their comments influence their decisions? In my opinion probably too much. Some people are just so quick to point the finger because they heard someone else say something they know nothing about.

Sorry for the threadjack and rant,

On another note I think that this is such a tragedy and we will never understand why this coward did those things. It was said earlier that it shouldn't matter if it is a male or female; I totally agree. This low life was a POS. My thoughts and prayers go out to her family, husband and two daughters. I would be surprised if he committed suicide. If his intent was to kill himself in the end then why go through all the trouble of trying to avoid the authorities trudging through creeks and 70 inches of snow? Doesn't add up to me. I want to believe he died in the most miserable way possible; alone in the dark in the worst conditions nature can throw at you all while suffering from dehydration, frostbite, cold & hypothermia.

[GrainfedMuley]

Kiro news at noon has reported that they have found a body in the area thought to be where Mr. Barnes was at. It is deep snow and not around any hiking trails. A recovery effort is under way.

[Fowlweather25]

Bar c3 I definitely agree that this is a compounded issue of a lot of problems as well as being a level headed enough to know that the military doesn't breed miscreants. For all we know this scumbag couldve joined the military just to get to kill someone without getting locked up for it. When I looked at his pics and saw the handcuff tattoo it told me a lot about this bonehead. Along with the fact that his ex provided statements saying that he was very short tempered I'm convinced he had a criminal or potentially dangerous past. I just didn't want people to think that PTSD wasn't a real issue. Or any other mental illness for that matter. It's nice to hear military guys being honest and not the dramatic oh woe is me type deal.

[colockumelk]

No one especially me is not down playing the seriousness of PTSD.  Everyone is affected differently. It ranges from getting nervous in crowds and getting tense when you hear fire works to suicidal thoughts and abusive and violant thoughts and actions.  But when people say our military doesn't do enough to help out with PTSD its because they probate ly are not in the military or have been recently.  The fault is not on the Army, the Iraq war or anyone else. It is 100% his fault. 

From the day we join the military we are taught a out PTSD, the causes effects and warning signs. We continue to get these classes throughout our career. We get the same amount and type of classes on suicide awareness.  We take a mental test before and after we get back from a deployment to determine if we had a traumatic brain injury or for signs of PTSD. Part of our pre and post deployment training is alot of PTSD and suicide classes.  We are taught to look after each other and as a leader we keep close tabs on our guys.  We have 24 hour hotlines available and all the free therapy you can get. There is one on one with a shrink, group classes and group therapy, there is a whole section to tje hospital dedicated to PTSD and TMI.  There are free retreats to 5 star resorts, tjere is couples therapy and couples retreats. Even wives get a lot of training to help deal with it. The VA offers all tje free training you want once you get out.  My good buddy 4 years after getting out was on the brink of a divorce and an alcoholic and finally got tje help he needed.  FOR FREE!  It tools four years of friends and family nagging him before he would finally help himself.  You can lead a horse to water but you cant make him drink.

Of course this will just add fuel for the anti war crowd  and will try to garner sympathy for this POS and will find some vet who claims he didn't get the help he needed and that this is a direct result of the effects that the war in Iraq had.  Like I said it'll be used against us. The drive to prevent vets with PTSD or a history of PTSD from getting a conceal carry permit will be on again.

[adamR]

What a terrible tragedy, especially during the Holidays at a place where people are spending time with the family. That said, I was angry at first, but then after reading the guy was a vet, likely with PTSD (I think I said that right), it's clear the Government still isn't doing enough for some of the vets returning from war, sad. There should be more programs to climatize people like this kid, some need more help than others adjusting after they have been fighting for years.

Having PTSD doesn't give someone the right to kill another.  The government is doing the best it can to avoid PTSD issues such as suicidal thoughts, depression, and nightmares.  During Post Deployment I think I saw at least 4 different doctors who wanted to talk and that was the minimum, the people that asked for help were given every opportunity.  If you faked being ok, because you were to macho or were scared what your buddies think you are a moron and it's your own fault.  PTSD is a terrible thing but it should never be used as an excuse!!!

Glad the guys is dead though!!!

[MikeWalking]

No one especially me is not down playing the seriousness of PTSD.  Everyone is affected differently. It ranges from getting nervous in crowds and getting tense when you hear fire works to suicidal thoughts and abusive and violent thoughts and actions.  But when people say our military doesn't do enough to help out with PTSD its because they probably are not in the military or have been recently.  The fault is not on the Army, the Iraq war or anyone else. It is 100% his fault. 

Amen to that.   I just kind of went off at the Bob Rivers page on Facebook. People making excuses for him. Blaming the Military etc.

I had my own long running battle with PTSD. Set up by a childhood of abuse I will not describe here.  Compounded by the second half of my enlistment.  It led to multiple suicide attempts, one putting me in the hospital for 7 months. Homelessness for a year before that. I could write a book.   The thought of lashing out and hurting others like this guy did never even entered my mind  and the provocations were certainly there, quite often.  No mater what happened to this guy. His actions were his choice. Period.  It's a shame the way he ended up. But my only real sympathies are for the ones left behind.

[Dmanmastertracker]

No one especially me is not down playing the seriousness of PTSD.  Everyone is affected differently. It ranges from getting nervous in crowds and getting tense when you hear fire works to suicidal thoughts and abusive and violant thoughts and actions.  But when people say our military doesn't do enough to help out with PTSD its because they probate ly are not in the military or have been recently.  The fault is not on the Army, the Iraq war or anyone else. It is 100% his fault. 

From the day we join the military we are taught a out PTSD, the causes effects and warning signs. We continue to get these classes throughout our career. We get the same amount and type of classes on suicide awareness.  We take a mental test before and after we get back from a deployment to determine if we had a traumatic brain injury or for signs of PTSD. Part of our pre and post deployment training is alot of PTSD and suicide classes.  We are taught to look after each other and as a leader we keep close tabs on our guys.  We have 24 hour hotlines available and all the free therapy you can get. There is one on one with a shrink, group classes and group therapy, there is a whole section to tje hospital dedicated to PTSD and TMI.  There are free retreats to 5 star resorts, tjere is couples therapy and couples retreats. Even wives get a lot of training to help deal with it. The VA offers all tje free training you want once you get out.  My good buddy 4 years after getting out was on the brink of a divorce and an alcoholic and finally got tje help he needed.  FOR FREE!  It tools four years of friends and family nagging him before he would finally help himself.  You can lead a horse to water but you cant make him drink.

Of course this will just add fuel for the anti war crowd  and will try to garner sympathy for this POS and will find some vet who claims he didn't get the help he needed and that this is a direct result of the effects that the war in Iraq had.  Like I said it'll be used against us. The drive to prevent vets with PTSD or a history of PTSD from getting a conceal carry permit will be on again.

 I understand your concern, knee-jerk reaction's can go both ways, neither direction is good, I wouldn't condone taking away right's to carry, etc. for those capable. It's like anything else, everyone has a different experience with the same situation's. I've had relatives that successfully overcame PTSD and some that didn't, that's why I stated some need more help than others. Regardless of all that I think we can all agree it's just a sad tragedy for all involved.

[Knocker of rocks]

Suicide no doubt.

Quite possibly, or he could have fallen or succumbed to hypothermia.  Or they might have shot him, and aren't saying anything yet.

I don't think he had a plan, heading the  one-way road to paradise isn't really a good way to hide from the authorities.  I would imagine that when he ran from the car, he really wasn't properly equipped

I think he had a plan. I think he knew they would be looking for him for the Skyway shooting. I think he heavily armed himself,  had a bullet proof vest and survival gear and headed to paradise to kill as many people as he could before heading into the wilderness to hide(kind of like the Norway Killings). I think he wanted to be seen as some sort of bad a** that the news likes to make a hero out of.

Paradise has one way in, imagine trying to get assets into the area when the 911 call comes in of an active shooter at the lodge.

I would say that the Ranger that died is a hero. Everything happens for a reason. It would seem that in the grand scheme of things, she gave her life to save many.....Again RIP..

Apparently they still haven't reached and identified the body yet.  I hope it turns out to be him, and not as Ed Troyer pointed out, another possible victim, or an unrelated victim of the mountain.

But your theory about his intension's could be correct.  I looked at a map, and if I understand his location correctly, he was for all purposes in the greater Paradise area.  Barnes Flat is just below the lowest parking lot, east of the sewage treatment center.  I would guess less than 300 yards from the visitor center

[Knocker of rocks]

KING TV is reporting he was found and identified.  He was wearing jeans, a t-shirt and one shoe.  Ed Troyer has stated thgat there is no sign of trauma or violence, and one may assume that hypothermia was the cause of death

[MikeWalking]

KING TV is reporting he was found and identified.  He was wearing jeans, a t-shirt and one shoe.  Ed Troyer has stated thgat there is no sign of trauma or violence, and one may assume that hypothermia was the cause of death

Wow, a real survivalist huh?

A M F

[colockumelk]

KING TV is reporting he was found and identified.  He was wearing jeans, a t-shirt and one shoe.  Ed Troyer has stated thgat there is no sign of trauma or violence, and one may assume that hypothermia was the cause of death

Wow, a real survivalist huh?

A M F

  my sentiments exactly.  A M F  Your last day on this earth may have been cold but where your going its pretty Dang hot.