observatory bulls numbers down next year

[greenhead_killer]

well, since the tribes are SO dependent on what the AMERICAN GOVERNMENT provides for them, i.e. our tax dollars, why dont we either A: give the tribes financial assistance, or b: let them have their way with THEIR animals and the land they inhabit. *censored*, this stuff has been going on for long enough, lets make a decision.

[Harborhunter]

just because we use cars doesnt mean most of our cultural heritage is not still intact. we practice the same things weve been practicing for hundreds of years. stories, language, dance and singing is also a huge part of our culture that has been passed down. i wish more people understood reservation life. you can bring to light whatever you want. hopefully it does some good and the abusers will be punished more appropriately. but dont think that by trying to put tribal hunting in a bad light as a whole is going to accomplish much.


and sled. get over it. and shut up about it.

Bigbulls, having the abusers being punished properly is a big part about what this whole argument is about.  It's like anything, the few always ruin it for the many.  We know not all native hunters abuse their privileges, but the people who do are really starting to piss people off.  Hunters who buy state licenses pay good money for them, and when observations like Ribka's happen obviously it is not going to sit too well. Tribal hunting as well as poaching by other people is putting a hurt on our animals and I doubt many people will deny that.  I will also add that I have been trying to do my part and have been able to catch a poacher, so I am not another one of those people who will do nothing.  Stupid people also piss me off too, so I see we have something in common.   Lastly, do not give me crap about being uneducated until you maybe start capitalizing letters and using correct punctuation.   

[270Shooter]

I have not read all of the posts in this thread, so I do not know where this topic has gone but today I was on the reservation looking for ducks and as we passes a house (natives) there were skinned deer carcasses hanging from the tree in the yard, unfortunately it looked like the deer had been hanging for a very long time. We're talking like 2-3 weeks plus. I know some people hang their deer for a short time but this seemed ridiculous and there was no way they were going to be able to eat either of these deer.

Thats some subsistance hunting for you

[greenhead_killer]

I have not read all of the posts in this thread, so I do not know where this topic has gone but today I was on the reservation looking for ducks and as we passes a house (natives) there were skinned deer carcasses hanging from the tree in the yard, unfortunately it looked like the deer had been hanging for a very long time. We're talking like 2-3 weeks plus. I know some people hang their deer for a short time but this seemed ridiculous and there was no way they were going to be able to eat either of these deer.

Thats some subsistance hunting for you

i think thats more of what we will see and have been seeing for some time...i think a few good apples and the rest bad is more the story these days....have yet to see anything to change my tune

[Pinetar]

igotbigbulls- You are right, your ancestors would not want you to i
give up your hunting rights and I don't want you to either. Nobody should ever mess with someones cultural heritage. This is one of the most important things that we have. However we could change our ways and times of our hunting without giving up much.

A lot of unforeseen things have changed that were not thought of when the treaty was written. When the treaty was written they had no clue that there would be huge cities and pavement around every corner which means less area for wildlife, they didn't know that we would have high powered rifles, atv's, pickup trucks, rangefinders, scopes and rifles that shoot 1000 yards. They had no idea that their would be so many people living on winter ranges and the backyards of our wildlife. They had no idea that their would be so many different kinds of issues that could jeopardize our wildlife.

I'm pretty sure that my ancestors and yours did their best to write  and understand these treaties and they were very smart people but there was just no way that they could have been written back then to work for today. Just like our hunting and fishing regulations have to be changed and re-written every three years to continue to work. Example: If too many bulls get killed in the 340 Manastash unit over the last three years than they will give less permits over the next three years.
I don't pretend to know all the answers or solutions but we must all start very soon to come up with the answers or our grandkids are screwed. 
If we continue to shoot elk and deer all winter long on our winter range it won't take long and we will decimate our wildlife and then we will not have much left to fight and argue about on our favorite hunting talk forum. lol
I'm not pointing fingers at you by any means as I do not even know you and I know not all native hunters abuse their privileges, but I have personally seen a lot of abuse in the last couple of years and it is very frustrating         

have a good night

[sled]

just because we use cars doesnt mean most of our cultural heritage is not still intact. we practice the same things weve been practicing for hundreds of years. stories, language, dance and singing is also a huge part of our culture that has been passed down. i wish more people understood reservation life. you can bring to light whatever you want. hopefully it does some good and the abusers will be punished more appropriately. but dont think that by trying to put tribal hunting in a bad light as a whole is going to accomplish much.

and sled. get over it. and shut up about it.

  Ill shut up about it and get over it when the tribe members stop poaching!!!  It might be legal for you, but as long as you take more than one deer, and elk a year I consider that poaching.
  I am pretty sure the the federal gov would allow you to live off the reservation like everyone else now so dont cry about that life anymore. 
  This is a free country, times change, and everyone should have to live by the same laws.  Why cant you accept that?  It is a shame what happened many moons ago I agree, but come on man this is 2012.
  Sing and dance all you want, but there are simply not enough resource to be overharvested Unethically anymore.  understand that its not difficult!

Bigbulls, having the abusers being punished properly is a big part about what this whole argument is about.  It's like anything, the few always ruin it for the many.  We know not all native hunters abuse their privileges, but the people who do are really starting to piss people off.  Hunters who buy state licenses pay good money for them, and when observations like Ribka's happen obviously it is not going to sit too well. Tribal hunting as well as poaching by other people is putting a hurt on our animals and I doubt many people will deny that.  I will also add that I have been trying to do my part and have been able to catch a poacher, so I am not another one of those people who will do nothing.  Stupid people also piss me off too, so I see we have something in common.   Lastly, do not give me crap about being uneducated until you maybe start capitalizing letters and using correct punctuation.

[HairTrigger]

Pinetar I am sure you don't live where your ancestors lived an we do have regulations for fishing an hunting

[sled]

All good things come to an end sooner or later!

[igotbigbulls]

Are you refering to your hunting seasons?

[PlateauNDN]

I have not read all of the posts in this thread, so I do not know where this topic has gone but today I was on the reservation looking for ducks and as we passes a house (natives) there were skinned deer carcasses hanging from the tree in the yard, unfortunately it looked like the deer had been hanging for a very long time. We're talking like 2-3 weeks plus. I know some people hang their deer for a short time but this seemed ridiculous and there was no way they were going to be able to eat either of these deer.

Thats some subsistance hunting for you

You have a general area for this residence?  If it's still in the state that you mentioned then it can be pursued for wastage.  Also does anybody have any info. regarding these incidents?  Pics, video, lic. plates or anything usable for possible violations? 

[coteyd]

If you hunt more then what the rules allow you are poaching and poaching costs everybody. I moved from TN about 4 years ago and have not had a deer since. There I had deer meat in my freezer all year and that is all I needed. Where I lived we were allowed to take 3 does a day and 3 Bucks for the year. I would take 2 or 3 deer total for the year. That is all I could eat in a year I would not take more just because I was allowed. I would hunt and be able to donate meat but I did not hunt just to give meat away only if a family truly needed meat and it was very seldom that happen. In fact I only did that once because I had to pay the butcher to process that deer and I do not have alot of money to pay for that. I hunt for the meat and the pleasure of being outdoors in the wild. I know we were talking about elk but they do not have elk in abundance there and are trying to make a come back after almost dying out and hunting stopped. So just so you know the elk hunting will stop for everyone if the elk are not here. So whatever race you need to be active in keeping everybody to limits. Trust me elk hunting will go away if numbers drop.

[colockumelk]

Pinetar I am sure you don't live where your ancestors lived an we do have regulations for fishing an hunting

The only regulation you have is that from January 1st to August 31st you can't harvest cows or does.  UNLESS....  you get a special permit to do so from your tribal council for ceremonies etc.  There are also some small areas that are closed off to protect deer and elk around the feed stations.  Other than that you have no limits on how many animals you can harvest.  I would not consider this effective or responsible game managment.   

I have said it a million times people.  Get pictures.  If this stuff is happening.  We all know it is happening.  It is not enough to just talk about it anymore.  Pictures is what will solve the problem and bring some positive change. And do NOT under any circumstance get confrontational.  No picture is worth getting in a fight and especially isn't worth getting killed over.    Whether its a gut pile, pictures of waste and abuse, video of it happening, pictures of tribal members hunting in the mountains, pictures of elk and deer in a truck etc.  Anything and everything.  Just talking about it isn't enough.  We need pictures.  Pictures show a pattern of conduct and events.  This is what we need to bring light to this subject. 

Unfortunately I think we could send and show the Yakamas a million pictures and they would not change.  I think they will only change when they are put in the public spot light with pictures that are "not flattering".  This is I think the only way that any real and positive changes will occur.  Maybe I am wrong but history shows that I am right.

And the other thing I have said time and time again, tribes impose harvest restrictions and modern game management practises on its members and still keep their traditions alive.  Most of the other tribes in America, and the Northwest somehow have managed to do this.  So why cant the Yakamas.  Also it is a SHARED resource.  So why is the WDFW the ONLY ones supporting and doing anything to ensure the proper managment and continuation of our elk and deer?  Why is it that the Yakamas think they should be able to sit back and do NOTHING to help out with our shared resource?  People talk about the "fair share" doctrine.  Well if we have to "share" in a "fair" way then shouldn't the Yakamas pay for half the mangement and conservation costs.  If the Yakamas and the treaty etc says they have a right to HALF the animals then okay this should also mean they should pay HALF the cost of these animals.  As it is they pay NOTHING 

[Rainier10]

 :yeah:Pictures are worth a thousand words.

[PlateauNDN]

Nice post Colock as usual.   I was reading an article earlier and it got me thinking as it did to the person that wrote it.  I find myself stuck between a rock and a hard place.  I believe and practice our traditions and I also believe in conservation.  I may not always agree with one side but I do believe in the idea of conservation and the impact many have when they overharvest and abuse the Rights that many have fought and died for us to enjoy.

I say rock and hard place because what I do is not the popular opinion of most here on the Yakama Reservation.  By speaking my mind in regards to the overharvesting of branched bulls and trophy bucks for the sole purporse of the size of the rack in my mind is a sport and should be treated as such.  Not everybody shares my opinion when I say this because they always revert to the "sustenance clause" and I again rebuttal with, why not shoot a cow or doe then?

I hunt for sustenance first and foremost and to harvest more than one bull or buck a year in my mind is a waste.  I find every scenario to apply to the situation and it doesn't always sink in or the message gets lost with being an "Uncle Tom" or taking the side of Non-Tribal Members.  Which is not the case.  I will stand and be heard whether people like it or not because that is "my right" and it may not be the popular thing to do but it is still the right thing to do regardless.

Here is the article from the Fall 2011 edition of Hunting the Rez Magazine.

"From the Editor

I am always humbled and in a state of awe by what is provided for us in the way of sustenance and experiences by our creator.  As I reflect on what has transpired and the events over the last year, which marks on year of quarterly magazine issues, I’m reminded of the many great people of whom I’ve had the good fortune to cross paths.  Two of the truly admirable individuals that we, at Hunting the Rez were privileged to meet and hunt with were Jim Kinsey and Jana Waller of Skull Bound TV.

Jim and Jana called in August to discuss coming to Indian Country to do an antelope hunt.  As we talked about expectations and logistics, I couldn’t help but notice how content, fulfilled and genuinely happy the couple is while pursuing their adventures and living their dream.  They have a deep respect for conservation and the balance of nature.  As the hunt came to be and good friends were made, I began to question my own journey through life.  I thought about things such as where I am going, what I am doing and what I hope to accomplish.  These are tough questions that we all face at many different stages of our lives.  I thought about things from different perspectives and was reminded that everything is God’s creation and we are just along for the ride.  Native Americans through tradition and culture, are taught about the creation of all things and the ties we all share with Mother Earth, the spirits and the elements.

Balance and harmony must be attained in order for this natural state to remain.  We must acknowledge Mother Earth and her delicate balance.  We should always be asking ourselves “Are we doing right by her?”  After some serious thought, I have to admit that at times, we are not.

I was recently given a reminder of how we need to be more thoughtful and respectful of Mother Earth and the Creator.  First, a little history refresher to help you understand where I am coming from.  Indian Nations lived in an environment, prior to European contact where hunting and fishing was vital to life.  It was sacred as water.  Our ancestors hunted and fished and harvest what was needed to survive, nothing was wasted.  Today, hunting and fishing to survive is no longer needed.  We can go to a crockery store and buy food at our leisure if we financially able to do so.  Today, hunting has spiritual meaning and helps to keep ourselves in spiritual contact with God’s Creation.  There is also the element of joy we derive from hunting as a sport.  By partaking in the latter, are we neglecting or ignoring the balance of life?  I think these types of question are in the back of our minds at times and we chose to ignore them.  Whose responsibility is it to maintain this balance?  We must listen to our environment, to Mother Earth.  She Is talking to us, but not many people listen.  Some of us who do listen for her cries for help are sometimes at a loss and don’t know what we can do to help her. 
This came to me as I was attending a council meeting with the leaders of our Tribe.

The Fish and Game department wanted to host a coyote hunt to eradicate some of the predator problems that exist here in Rocky Boy.  We were reminded by the Chairman before we make any such decision to burn sweet grass and ask for permission to do so.  The role that the coyote plays is reenacted in one of our most important ceremonies and it is here where respect and permission are required.  Again the balance of life is brought up.  It seems at times that everything is so far out of balance that we might not be able to fix it.  Maybe we are fooling ourselves into thinking that we can play a role in fixing some of these problems.  Maybe Mother Nature will show us exactly who is in control.  I believe that if we don’t pay attention to Mother Earth she will give us a reminder.  As hunters, anglers and lovers of all things outdoors, let us be mindful and respectful of Mother Earth.

Jason Belcourt
Editor"

[HairTrigger]

Good post plateau jason is a pretty cool guy to talk to