Colockum Elk Herd (UPDATED)

[leed]

I never said I was against blocking roads already closed.
First off, your barking up the wrong tree.  I told you once before.  WDFW DOES NOT OWN the land under thetrees in 328. What you refer to as the Colockum is the Naneum Ridge State Forest owned by DNR!  Talk to DN about roads not WDFW.  WDFW only controls the wintering grounds now. Remember, the land exchange. You were aware of that weren't you?
Harvest, escapement all take palce on DNR lands. Even breeding!  Only thig that happens in the wintering area is well, a bit of rest and eating.  So, are you telling me the occasional turkey huntere, chukar hunter or 4-wheeler is causing the herd to decline?  They have not conducted any in depth recreational or vegetation studies in the wintering grouds.  Wouldn't you as a lands manager want to know ALL of the possible influences on the area? Wouldn't you want to the the forage quality?  Apparently they don't. They are ONLY focused on roads and shutting them all down.
Just some food for thought.

[colockumelk]

Okay we are apparantly talking about 2 different things. I will try to ne more specific. Yes I know DNR owns Naneum ridge and most of 328. I was aware about the land deal. Yes I know 2/3 of the elk harvest is in 328. My big push right now is to close and block the roads that are already shut down. Doing anything else will take some time with the DNR.

I am firm that something needs to be done about how easy it is to access the Athur Coffin elk reserve. It was supposed to provide escapement and protection for the elk. Which it did. But now all it does is congregate most of the elk in one spot. The spikes get pushed out and get shot by the hunters that camo around the perimeter. The branch bulls are easy pickings for the poachers and tribal hunters. If we could broker a deal to provide a roadless zone a mile around it you wouldn't have to close any roads down. The road density on the naneum basin is way higher than other places. You could close 20% of those roads and would still have more miles of road than most places. Although the point is moot for now since dnr owns it. Hopefully we can close up every single closed road though. This alone will help a lot.

Leed you asked for and I shall send you a PM in the AM.

[C-Money]

I was up in the Colockum Saturday. A trip up was long overdue. I went and glassed one of "my spots" and viewed healthy looking elk. Most of the cows had fat little calves with them and all looked calm. Not sure where all the big boys were, obviously they were not with the cows. We saw 4 bulls, all looked no bigger than spike size. To far away even to count points. They looked like they were fine, enjoying a mild winter day. We did find a fresh set of lion tracks not far from where the herd was. Light snow came in as evening approched, very relaxing day.

[Special T]

It sounds like you 2 aren't that far off from what you think we both need. Probably some PMs will clarify.

[JLS]

Sounds about right leed!

Don't get too upset..... I meant this

 "At least not in the winter area. What is hurting them is uncontrolled harvest and by the way the ELIMINATED the ENFORCEMENT SERGEANT position here last month. They didn't tell you that did they!"

The Sgt position was replaced by a field officer.

[colockumelk]

My numbers were a little off. When it comes to how many cow permits they could give out. These are based off of old harvest reports and reports taken from other similar gmu's. But based off of them this is what we know.  The Colockum elk herd has about 1,000 calves a year. Or about 500 female calves. 350 cows a year die of natural causes . This leaves a surplus of 159 cows a year that can be harvested and keep the herd number at the same level.  But since we want to shrink the herd by about 400 or so ( to get it from the current level of 4,900 down to the herd objective of 4,500) The reduction of 400 should be done over about three years. So take the 150 you already need to harvest each year and add about 150 to it to decrease the herd by 400 in three years. So to bring the herd down to 4,500 you need to harvest 300 cows a year.

Now that we have decided how many a year need to be harvested we need to split up how many of the 300 each user group gets. Rifle hunters get 65% (194), Muzzle Loaders get 15% (46) and Archers get 20% (60). Now to determine how many permits you need to issue in order to harvest the 300 you must look at your estimated harvest percent.  (Estimates are 10% high) Rifle success rate is 85%, Muzzle Loader is 50%, and Archery is 25%.

Now that we have figured out how many cows we want to harvest each year over the next three years, how many cows each user group gets and what the harvest success rate would be. We can now determine how many permits each user group would need to reach the harvest objective. Rifle hunters get 230 permits, muzzle loaders get 92 permits, and archers get 240 permits.

Let's say our science, math and estimates were spot on ( it wouldn't and each year the numbers would get tweaked based off of aerial surveys and harvest reports) and our elk herd is at the objective of 4,500 animals. Now we just want to maintain a steady population of 4,500 animals. Using the same numbers above but now only harvesting 150 cows a year we get this. Rifle hunters get 97 animals, muzzle loaders get 23 animals and archers get 30 animals. Which means rifle hunters get 115 antlerless permits, muzzle loaders get 46 permits and archers get 120 permits.

[Rainier10]

I was over there this weekend and the cow numbers went down by three on Saturday.  There were two different herds of elk on the private property in the 3911 area.  I helped chase one herd of 50 back up to the national forest and the permit master hunters shot three in the other herd and that sent them running back up the hill.  That second herd actually ran up only to another landowners property but that landowner doesn't complain about the elk so they were safe.  I went back on Sunday and didn't see any elk in the farmers fields that had been complaining.

[HUNTINCOUPLE]

Boy thats a lot of thinken and math to figure how many elks to kill. I hope i gets to help.with the killen part. 

[Krawdaddy20]

When was the last time you were in the Colockum, during a hunt? What they are doing is working, with the "True Spike Bull," restriction. I have seen it myself.

[colockumelk]

When was the last time you were in the Colockum, during a hunt? What they are doing is working, with the "True Spike Bull," restriction. I have seen it myself.

I hunted in the Colockum for 5 days during bow season. I covered 40 miles on foot and saw over 200 elk.  It is not working nearly as well as the WDFW had hoped for.  Out of those 200 elk, 8 were branch bulls and 4 were yearling bulls.  True spike is still not allowing enough spikes to live through the rifle season to offset the amount of branch bulls killed ny tribal hunters and poachers. Hence the decrease in branch bulls.

[coachcw]

I hunted from sept to dec probilly 15-20 days of hard hunting in the cloc . I only saw a dozen or so spikes with 3-4 true spikes , and 60-70 bdiffernt branched bulls , hundreds of cows . Of the bulls we saw 20 or so where maure sixes and fives  of those only 2-3 had any age on them . I would love to see the preasure lowwered so some of the genetics could get 7-10 years old .

[leed]

"Out of those 200 elk, 8 were branch bulls and 4 were yearling bulls. " If that's all you saw in five days and 40 miles you have no idea where they are! I could cover 4 miles in 5 hours and see 30+n bulls!  I agree. It's working, slowly, but working.

[colockumelk]

"Out of those 200 elk, 8 were branch bulls and 4 were yearling bulls. " If that's all you saw in five days and 40 miles you have no idea where they are! I could cover 4 miles in 5 hours and see 30+n bulls!  I agree. It's working, slowly, but working.

Really I beg to differ. How'd you do this year?

[idahoelkhunter300wby]

Aaron, don't even try to make them all happy. Some of these guys would argue with you about what color the sky is!  The majority of us know how bad the herd has gotten.  If anyone thinks that hunting true spikes on the Colockum now is a healthy hunt, they obviously never saw how good the hunting was up there 10 years ago. And the reason the hunting was so good was because the herd was healthy and full of mature bulls that hadn't been poached or "tribaled".
Just ignore the idiots and keep doin what your doin! Some of us appreciate your dedication and passion!

[lokidog]

I was up in the Colockum Saturday. A trip up was long overdue. I went and glassed one of "my spots" and viewed healthy looking elk. Most of the cows had fat little calves with them and all looked calm. Not sure where all the big boys were, obviously they were not with the cows. We saw 4 bulls, all looked no bigger than spike size. To far away even to count points. They looked like they were fine, enjoying a mild winter day. We did find a fresh set of lion tracks not far from where the herd was. Light snow came in as evening approched, very relaxing day.

Unhealthy herd does not mean they are all standing around starving.  There can and will be healthy animals in an unhealthy herd.  Population may be a better term than herd since there are generally many herds in a population of animals.  For an extreme example of this, if you have an island that can easily suppport 500 elk and only 450 live there, you might assume that this would be a healthy herd/population.  Now, if you were told that of these 450 healthy elk, none are bulls, is this still a healthy population?  It is definitely a healthy herd as there are 450 fat happy cows there, but they eventually get old and die without replacing themselves.  The dwindling number of cows will still be healthy individuals but the population of elk is not.

Pretty much any biologist having any knowledge of elk will agree that increased road density has a negative impact on elk populations.  Whether it is from increased contact with non-hunters leading to increased energy expenditures or increased contact with hunters, legal and tribal and poachers (not being hunters, of course) leading to higher percentages of animals being directly killed, easier access will increase human-elk contact.  Decreased access will lead to decreased human-elk contact and, all other factors remaining the same, this will lead to healthier individuals and a healthier population.