Pike fishing on the Pend Oreille River

[TommyH]

Just waiting for a good report from YJ guide service.......... wanting to get on the water just need a bit of motivation to get out there!

[teal101]

Yea and Muskies and Pike are the same family.  Why are they not complaing about those.  Is it because they are not making it into the river systems?

The Muskies were brought in to select lakes with no runoff into Salmon waters.  There was one lake in Grant County that had runoff into the Columbia that was planted.  There were means in place to keep the Muskies from making it down to the river, but they failed so the lake was scrapped as a Tiger lake. 

The difference is the WDFW controlled where they put the Tigers and they control how many there are since they are sterile and need artificial supplementation.  The Pike are invasive from other waters and can breed at will.

The big issue is they do not want the Pike to make it into the Columbia river system.  While not all the habitat is suitable for Pike, there are spots where they would flourish such as the mouth of the Okanogan.  The Salmon and Steelhead DO NOT need ANOTHER obstacle in their fight for survival in this state.  Diet studies on Pike and Musky show that in the summer they feed primarily on trash fish and sunfish in the shallows.  When they move to deeper water in the winter/spring they are exposed to Salmonids more often and the diet can shift towards trout as is the case with Curlew Lake Tigers.  In the winter/spring up to 40% of the Musky diet is comprised of Trout in Curlew lake per the WDFW.  On the other hand, the water is colder in the winter and spring thus the fish are more lethargic and their dietary needs are lower.  While their diet may consist of 40% Salmonids, the total number of fish is not the same as it would be in the warmer months.  It;s hard to say how the Pike will adapt in the Columbia.  The issue is the Tigers are controlled in Curlew, therefore limiting their impact on the Salmonids.  In the Columbia, Pike will not be controlled and there is a possibility of devastation to native Salmonid populations.

[YJ Guide Service]

I guess my biggest question with this whole thing is how do these fish all live together in places like Lake Michigan which has Muskies, Pike, Chinook, Coho, Smallmouth, Walleye, etc. This is a awesome fisheries for a multitude of diffrent types of Salmon. Why is Washington State an exception? Canada as well as many bodies of water back east have Pike and Muskie and their fisheries are flurishing. I cant seem to get a answer to why Washington State is so diffrent.  Here are a few pics of the fish we caught last weekend. Just my thoughts on this subject. I'm a die hard Salmon fisherman as well, fishing Salmon from July through Oct so I'm not Pike bias.

[teal101]

I guess my biggest question with this whole thing is how do these fish all live together in places like Lake Michigan which has Muskies, Pike, Chinook, Coho, Smallmouth, Walleye, etc. This is a awesome fisheries for a multitude of diffrent types of Salmon. Why is Washington State an exception? Canada as well as many bodies of water back east have Pike and Muskie and their fisheries are flurishing. I cant seem to get a answer to why Washington State is so diffrent.  Here are a few pics of the fish we caught last weekend. Just my thoughts on this subject. I'm a die hard Salmon fisherman as well, fishing Salmon from July through Oct so I'm not Pike bias.

The only Salmon back east that is native is the Atlantic Salmon.  All the rest are introduced from our waters.  They havent faced the same obstacles destroying their habitat and decimating their populations for the past 200 years.  They flourish over there because of proper management and habitat.  Takes by predatory fish are negligible.

Our salmon are in a much different boat than those back east.  You can not deny that fact that Pike will prey on Salmon and Steelhead parr and smolt.  The extent and percent of their diet is up to debate at this point, but in my opinion and the states opinion any percent of the pikes diet being consisting of these threatened species is too many.  They have already had to deal with the logging choking the rivers with sawdust and the false floods associated with moving large log jams.  They have already had to deal with losing important parts of their ecosystem like the beaver that helped shape the habitat to what the salmon require.  Their habitat has been trampled and muddied by years of cattle ranching.  55% of total salmon habitat has been lost since the Euro Americans have come to the PNW.  The dams, especially Grand Coulee have cause mass extinction of genetically distinct populations.  Sockeye only breed in TWO upper Columbia lakes now, cut off from many of their original breeding grounds above the dam.  Then there was the introduction of the Walleye to the system and the Smallmouth Bass.  Adding another obstacle , whether big or small, is ignorant.

You also pointed out one of the big reasons Pike fluorish along side many other species when Muskie are present.  Pike breed before Muskie and the Pike smolts prey upon the newly hatched Muskie smolts as they breed in similar habitat.  The Muskie provide a great forage base for the Pike, lessening the need for other forage at times and reducing their impact on other predators.  If the Pike are eating Perch, they will eat Walleye.  If they eat Rainbow Trout, they will eat Salmon.  As I said before, their diet changes seasonally as prey comes and goes and their position in the water column changes based on temperature.

[Machias]

Do you ever fish using deadbaits?  I caught all my HUGE pike in England on deadbaits.  BIG pike are more scavenger than predators.  Lots and lots of studies in the UK, if you want BIG pike you rarely catch them on moving baits, they are nearly all caught using deadbaits.

[teal101]

Do you ever fish using deadbaits?  I caught all my HUGE pike in England on deadbaits.  BIG pike are more scavenger than predators.  Lots and lots of studies in the UK, if you want BIG pike you rarely catch them on moving baits, they are nearly all caught using deadbaits.

All fish are scavengers.  Lures are generally designed to mimic wounded bait fish over healthy bait fish, hence the erratic swimming actions of many.  Fish are opportunistic feeders, they will feed one whatever they can get so long as it has a good nourishment to energy expended ratio.  Muskie guys back east use live rigged suckers a lot for big Muskie.  I dont see why it would not work here.

[YJ Guide Service]

I think when we as humans start messing with what nature is doing on its own we usually mess things up. I agree the Salmon have had and will continue to have a up hill battle in this state. Until more fish ladders and other measures are installed thats the reality of it. I dont agree that the Pike are going to be eating all the Salmon or Trout. The Pike do not live in the same waters as the Trout or Salmon first off. I dont think Pike like to live in faster moving water or deeper colder water like trout and Salmon do. Second they may be predators but they are also lazy predators. The dont choose to chase a fast swimming, smart fish such as Salmon or Trout. They prefer to feed on slow dumb fish such as Perch, Pike Minnow, White Fish, tinch etc. The proof of this is from the stomach surveys done on the river in 2009 by the state and tribe. They did surveys on 755 fish and the total number of trout in the stomachs if I remember correctly were 5, along with less than a handful of Bass, almost everything else was perch for the most part, along with Pike Minnow, crappie etc. I agree no one wants to see them in the Columbia River, I for one dont. I dont see how the state is going to try to remove something that is uncontainable in a river. I know their goal is to reduce the numbers but whats going to keep them from getting into the Columbia still, doesnt solve that problem. The only way for their plan to work is if the state gets Montana and Idaho on board to make sure they dont get here in the first place. I just think the Pike in this state are getting a bad rap. Seems like the Salmon could really benefit from the $500 million being spent to remove the Pike from the Pend Oreille River and Box Canyon. Its being funded by power companies, the tribe and other groups. Seems like it would make more sense to spend the money above Box Canyon where the Pike numbers are still low and the habitat isnt there. Like I said just my opinion on this. As far as deadbait we dont ever use it. If the river isnt froze then we catch as many or more than deadbaiters using lures. I just think the state has a great fishery on the PO River and could make it world class if they wanted to. The people of this state i'm sure enjoy catching a variety of fish, I know I do. People actually are coming all the way from back east to fish this fishery and do every year because of the great Pike fishing. Why do people enjoy catching Salmon so much, because they taste yummy and they fight good. Just like a Pike does, tastes great and fights good. Good fishing and hunting everyone..

[Machias]

I've caught hundreds on crank baits and spoons, but nothing over 18 pounds.  All my mid 20s and low 30 pounders came off of deadbaits.  The bigger the pike the less energy they expend for their food.  The British fisherman are world class pike fisherman, if their target is really oversized pike, they never use spoons or crankbaits.  Now as a guide I can see where your clients would much prefer good action.  Deadbaiting for monster pike is a slow action game.  It's a more specialized pursuit.

[YJ Guide Service]

I totally agree Machias the big one are always almost caught on deadbait. Big fish don't are definitely lazy fish. Kinda a boring way of fishing to me, I just cant do it lol. I wouldn't want to have someone pay me to fish with a bobber lol and its not that i don't show them the setup if they want to know. I like to get clients involved and casting, moving around finding the fish. We are in the mind set of teaching someone to locate and learn how to catch them. You always see the big ones though caught in the spring off shore with bait...

[teal101]

The one flaw in your post is the interaction of Pike and Trout & Salmon.  True, Pike do not routinely inhabit the faster flowing stretches of water nor the deep pools.  It is not the adult Trout and Salmon the state is worried about though, which live in those habitats.  It is the Parr and Smolt, the next generation of Salmonids, that do reside in prime Pike habitat that are the issue. 

Obviously Tench and Perch are going to be a major dietary factor for the Pike in Box Canyon, they are the most abundant fish in the system.  Salmonids in Box Canyon make up very little of the total biomass in the water, as shown by WDFW studies.  If the Pike are to make it into a system where Tench and Perch are not nearly as abundant, such as the Columbia, they will have to shift their diet.  The obvious choice is the most abundant easy to catch prey with the highest nutrient return.  This can include Salmonid Parr and Smolt, Pikeminnow, Suckers, Carp, Chubs. Darters, Walleye and Bass in the Columbia as well as various other species.

Again I'll reiterate, the majority of fish are opportunist feeders, or as you have put "lazy".  Bass are a perfect example of an ambush predator.  Fish are wild animals.  They will only expend as much energy as needed to gain nutrition.  Affording Pike the benefit of being lazy is near the same as saying bass will not chase a school of Shad, its just not true in a sense. 

Now, my stance is not anti Pike, its is FAR from it.  Muskie have earned a special place in my heart, and even though I hardly get the chance to pursue them, they are my favorite fish to pursue.  I can only assume fishing for Pike would be a very similar experience for me.  I have read a lot of literature regarding the Esox.  "Managing Muskies" by Gordon E. Hall is a fantastic compilation of various studies on the Pike, Muskie, and the Tiger Muskie, although obviously focused on the pure strain Muskie.  My intent is not to remove Pike from the system, only to share my opinion and facts I have learned about the habits of Esox compared to Salmonids.  My literature collection regarding Salmonids is extensive and quite enlightening.  I am in full agreement a Minimum size rule needs to be put in place on Pike.  This will promote growth of trophy fish while hopefully thinning the population.  I'm unsure of the logistics of a barrier preventing Pike from entering the Columbia river system, although I fear it is too late.  Time will tell. I'm done rambling now

Tight lines.

[YJ Guide Service]

Its all good Teal and all good information. The more people are educated about these fisheries the better, I think...Good fishing and hunting everyone 

[teal101]

Its all good Teal and all good information. The more people are educated about these fisheries the better, I think...Good fishing and hunting everyone

One of these days I'll have to make it over and get out on a trip with you.  It;s on the bucket list of things to do!