First pin opinions please

[DoubleJ]

I've finally got my bow broadhead tuned.  My 30 yard pin hits 6" high at 20 yards and my 20 yard pin hits 6" low at 30 yards.  6" is the gap. 

Here's the rest of the info:

1.  I can practice everyday out to 30 yards.
2.  I can practice out to whatever distance i chose on the weekends but only a short bit.  In my opinion, i'm not able to practice 30+ near enough but, it is what it is.
3.  I will be deer hunting mulies in central wa.  And elk hunting wet side so i have a need for more long distance pins as well as short distance pins.
4.  I don't want 47 pins in my sight.  I'd like to stay at 4

What would you do.  Make the first pin 20 yards and go from there or make the first pin 30 yards and compensate for shorter shots.

[Buckmark]

Go back to rifle huntiing....
There are way to many variables in bow hunting to explain, 6 inches could be a foot given range estimation, string jump etc
you need to get your pins closer, start at your max comfortable, acurate range and work back from there...
just my 

[buckfvr]

20, 30, 40, and 50.

[TheHunt]

My first 20 yard pin and is always green.

I have a wrapped 7 deadly pins by spot hogg.   LOVE that site....

20
30
40
50
60
70
80

[Button Nubbs]

20, 30, 40, 50. Are you really going to want to hold your pin 6" low in the heat of the moment? That could easily be the difference between a wounded and a dead animal.

[DoubleJ]

20, 30, 40, 50. Are you really going to want to hold your pin 6" low in the heat of the moment? That could easily be the difference between a wounded and a dead animal.

Best point I've seen made.  Thank you.

[bloodhound]

i would say it depends on how fast your bow is, but in your case 20,30, and so on. i have 30 and up but i only have about a 2-3in drop if i put my 20 on the 30 yard target. which wont matter since the animal is gonna flinch down anyway. but 6 inches is just too much drop in my opinion.

[dreamingbig]

I have 20 30 40 50 60 and the top of my bubble is 70.  5 pin spot hogg hunter hogg it.

[D-Rock425]

You have issues.   If your broadheads are hitting that bad at 20 and 30 yards you are only going to have more problems the further out you shoot.

[DoubleJ]

You have issues.   If your broadheads are hitting that bad at 20 and 30 yards you are only going to have more problems the further out you shoot.

Going to shoot a lighter BH tonight to see if I can tighten that up.

[pullnpray]

what set up are you shooting?

[D-Rock425]

what set up are you shooting?

[dreamingbig]

6" is a lot of drop.  I am shooting a 495 grain arrow out of my hoyt maxxis and I only have 3.5 - 4" drop from 20 yards to 30 yards.

[D-Rock425]

6" is a lot of drop.  I am shooting a 495 grain arrow out of my hoyt maxxis and I only have 3.5 - 4" drop from 20 yards to 30 yards.

I think he's getting bad broadhead flight.   I think they are diving on him.

[Special T]

I'm guessing the difference in dropp is beteen BH and feild tips? If it were me I woul go 20-50 BUT would practice a bunch with feild tips (everyday) then change over clser to hunting season and recalibrate for you broad heads. ( move the pins)  The best thing to do is find a BH that shoots as close to you Feild tip as possible.  If you think your max range is 50 shoot at 50 with both your BH and feild tip and see how much differnce you have then... It maight be alot! 

[DoubleJ]

what set up are you shooting?

AR-34 Don't know my actual speed but IBO for this bow is 315fps.
27" draw
67lbs (WAY too much for my shoulder but I'm working out to make it work)

Carbon Express Piledriver 350 cut at 27"
125gn Magnus Snuffers
Zeon Fusion vanes
Carbon Express inserts and nocks
Total arrow weight: 444gn

My KE calculator has this setup at 214fps and 45.4 lbs of KE

I am pretty sure I can drop to a 100gn head and gain a few FPS without giving up KE but, FOC is going to drop.  I'd like to go with 85gn heads but, I think that may throw the FOC off too much.  And I kind of feel like the "punch" of a 125gn or 100gn is worth the speed trade off.  Am I correct in thinking this?

According to my calculator, my FOC right now is 13.2%
FOC with 100gn head is 11.1%
FOC with 85gn head is 9.7%
Thoughts?

[DoubleJ]

Damnit, now I feel like I'm way overthinking this

[sebek556]

  maybe you have too much foc causing the rapid drop? try 100 grn tips once and see.. are your field tips dropping 6in as well? as I said in another thread I have a spare or two 100 grain monte cs you could give a try if yah want. 
as far as your sight, you know you best. set it how you feel it should be.

[whacker1]

Why not just set your first pin at 25 yards and be 3 inches high or low depending on if you were at 20 or 30? 

Wouldn't that solve your problem?

[pullnpray]

are your sure your arrow weighs 444gr? thos carbons a 11.3gpi right? you factored in the nock and insert weight and vain weight? your FOC seems to be high but thats what im personaly thinking have you paper tuned/ walk back tuned your bow yet? im also showin a bow with those specs shooting a 473gr arrow(thinking it might be closer to what it actually weighs) 236ft/sec here is a good ibo/foc/arrow weight clac http://www.backcountrybowhunting.com/articles/calc/

[DoubleJ]

I have the Piledriver 350's at 10.3gpi, not the piledriver hunter 350's that are 11.3gpi

[DoubleJ]

And I have a D-Loop with peep and cat whiskers.  Estimating 100gn on string

[DoubleJ]

maybe you have too much foc causing the rapid drop? try 100 grn tips once and see.. are your field tips dropping 6in as well? as I said in another thread I have a spare or two 100 grain monte cs you could give a try if yah want. 
as far as your sight, you know you best. set it how you feel it should be.

Going to try 100gn and 85gn tips later.  I have both.  Couldn't tell you about field points yet.  I was working on BH tunning and hadn't put points on yet

[pullnpray]

or wrap your arrows and throw some lumanocks in them it should drop your FOC down a bit.. if you really want to stay in the 125gr BH category remember to tune your bow after you choose which one each ones gonna fly diff.

[Button Nubbs]

If you haven't shot field tips yet how did you broadhead tune? True broadhead tuning involves moving your rest in small increments and shooting a field tip and broadhead until they both come together.

[DoubleJ]

If you haven't shot field tips yet how did you broadhead tune? True broadhead tuning involves moving your rest in small increments and shooting a field tip and broadhead until they both come together.

Chit.  I'm doing it wrong.  I thought it was shooting BH's and moving the rest in small incriments until they're hitting bullseye THEN shoot points and adjust the sights until they're hitting bullseye

[et1702]

If you haven't shot field tips yet how did you broadhead tune? True broadhead tuning involves moving your rest in small increments and shooting a field tip and broadhead until they both come together.

Chit.  I'm doing it wrong.  I thought it was shooting BH's and moving the rest in small incriments until they're hitting bullseye THEN shoot points and adjust the sights until they're hitting bullseye

hey Double J,

Do you ever get out to east King County?  I live in Duvall, WA and have plenty of room to shoot.  Also, been shooting bows for over 33 years, and can get you & bow tuned properly in short order. 

You should be shooting field point thru paper first.  Look up paper tuning on Eastmans site.  After you paper tune w/field points (i.e., shooting a bullet hole thru paper from only a couple yards from paper).  Step back a few more yards and make sure you are still shooting a bullet hole.  This will get you real close to shooting field points and BH in same spot.  After shooting thru paper, continue using FP's and set your sights; 20, 30, 40, 50, etc.  If you aren't comfortable shooting longer distances yet, just set up 20 & 30.  Make sure you are grouping your field points before switching to BH's.  You should not need to move sights at all to get same grain BH to hit same spot as FP's if your bow is tuned properly.  If they aren't same POI (because BHs can magnify any slight bow tuning issues), then you make very slight adjustments to rest based on where BH's are impacting.  Once FPs and BH's are same POI (i.e., ignore moving sights until FPs and BHs are same POI), then you can move the sights (if necessary) to bring you back to bullseye.

Also, based on your comment about shooting 67lbs and it hurting your shoulder.  BHs will also magnify any imperfections in your shooting form (i.e., might be you, not the bow tune or BH's fault).  I would turn the bow down a bit and make sure it is comfortable to shoot.  Once you are grouping your FP's and/or busting knocks at 20 to 30yards, then you can crank up poundage a little at a time until you get to your desired hunting weight.  Also, only after your shooting form is good and you have reached your desired hunting weight, now is the time to try to get BH's to fly correctly.

Hope this helps, and if you want to come out to Duvall area and shoot, just PM me and I'd be happy to help.

ET

[sebek556]

  great write up et

[MtnMuley]

Nice offer ET!

[coachcw]

I shoot a two pin mover top pin fixed 37 yards six inches high at 20 yards bottom pin adjustible from 40-90. I set my bottom at 50 and move from there .

[Button Nubbs]

Here is a great thread for you doublej.

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=539460

[DoubleJ]

Thanks for the offer ET but Duval is a bit too far.  KillBilly is in Oly and offered the same, just haven't gotten out there.

As an update, I had 2 Magnus Stinger 4 blade 85gn BH in my box so, I put them on.  Dead nuts perfect at 20, 25, and 30yds.  and FRICKIN' WAY FASTER than my 125gn Snuffers.  Hit identical to my 85gn field points and that was dead center bullseye.  I had to move my 30yd pin up a bit so, it is right under my 20yd pin.  I know I'm not supposed to but I peeked at a couple of BH shots as they flew and it was damned impressive to see how well they spun and how straight they flew.  They were a bit noisy though but, that has been an issue with every BH I've ever shot.  Mosquitos got too bad for me to see what the difference is between 20 and 30yds so, maybe tomorrow on that.  Looks like I've found my setup though.  Here's a pic of my sight pins right now.  Just the top 2.  The others aren't being used yet.

[DoubleJ]

I do wish I had a shooting machine though so every shot could be perfectly replicated.  Then I'd know that any imperfection in my shot was my fault and not the tuning.

[sirmissalot]

I contemplated making my top pin 30 before, instead of 20, but i whack a lot of grouse with my bow and usually they are 10 or 15 yards so I decided to stick with 20. I have 5 pins and am never going to shoot an animal further than 60 anyways

[Dirty Mike]

Thanks et, ive been looking for a good write up for a long tiMe

[jaymark6655]

I use four pins, 20, 30, 40, 50.  That way  if its closer than 20, I can just use 20 and there isn't much difference in aim.  If its longer than 50, I can put the 50 pin where I would aim and then look at where the 40 or 30 pins sits and that's my new aim point which gives me a 60 or 70 yard shot.  Anything further than that and I better have a rifle.

Yesterday I accidentally shot at 30 yards with my 20 yard pin, arrows where hitting about 6 to 8 inches low.  Just FYI.

[NWWABOWHNTR]

or wrap your arrows and throw some lumanocks in them it should drop your FOC down a bit.. if you really want to stay in the 125gr BH category remember to tune your bow after you choose which one each ones gonna fly diff.

Still illegal to hunt with

[BowBender87]

I switched from a multi pin sight to a single pin adjustable last year and it works great.  My hunting setup throws an arrow at 290 fps and my pins were very close together (20,30,40,50,60), making it at times very confusing in the "heat of the moment" trying to differentiate between all these pins.  So i made the switch, making things much simpler when you have that bull coming in.  The bulls I've shot have all been under 30 yards.  When I'm hunting, I split the difference between 20 and 30 yards...so its set at 25.  I can still shoot all the way to 40 yards and my arrow drops about 6 inches. Anything outside of that I will most likely be looking to get closer, especially in the timber. This is just my opinion and what works well for me.  The simpler I can keep things when drawing on a bull the better. Good luck! 

[whacker1]

I switched from a multi pin sight to a single pin adjustable last year and it works great.  My hunting setup throws an arrow at 290 fps and my pins were very close together (20,30,40,50,60), making it at times very confusing in the "heat of the moment" trying to differentiate between all these pins.  So i made the switch, making things much simpler when you have that bull coming in.  The bulls I've shot have all been under 30 yards.  When I'm hunting, I split the difference between 20 and 30 yards...so its set at 25.  I can still shoot all the way to 40 yards and my arrow drops about 6 inches. Anything outside of that I will most likely be looking to get closer, especially in the timber. This is just my opinion and what works well for me.  The simpler I can keep things when drawing on a bull the better. Good luck! 

This is my logic as well, but will be switching to a new bow in the next few weeks, which will tighten my groups based on speed as mine were farther apart than what you mentioned on my older bow