Tribal hunting bills introduced

[lokidog]

I dont know why these bills even need to be brought up, maybe to help you all understand them better, can already do what they say without needing this

I think it's obvious that the intent is to allow access behind locked gates, by motorized vehicle. No it doesn't specifically say that, but like you said, tribal members already have the right to hunt state land in their ceded area.

This new bill says the state cannot deny access. Which to me means the state cannot put up a gate, or if they do, the tribes will whine about it and demand to be given keys.

Is that not the way you understand it?

Uh, yeah.....  You know what all you tribal punks that want to take advantage of the system (no offense meant to those of you that appear to be somewhat ethical), the law may allow you to hunt wherever, but walk your butts in there.     I try to be nice and sensitive and understanding and all that, but give me a friggin break, and the wildlife too.  All of you know this is not a good thing for the resource, many just don't seem to care.   

    By the way offense taken.....

I'm sorry you were offended as you do seem to be one of the ethical ones that actually cares for the resource that I referred to in my exception, and yes, I have done a lot of these things having a degree in biology, worked for various state and federal agencies, taught high school biology, been a hunter ed instructor, girl scout leader, etc.

So, again, this is not referring to you, it is referring to those that would drive into closed areas and shoot five or more trophy bulls under the guise of "feeding their families" with no actual concern for the resource and habitat.  And, no, I have not seen this personally in this state (I have in OR) as I do not live on the eastside in the areas of concern.  I have read enough posts in the last three years or so to guess that this is an actual problem and not something just made up by one or two troublemaking hotheads.

If this offends you, again, I am sorry, but maybe you and your ethical cohorts need to get the rest under control so that those of us that do not have special privelages don't lump you in with the rest.

[mfswallace]

lokidog I'm not here to pick fights but seem to be finding them. You seem to care for our natural resources, I get that. Have you met with bios about concerns of herd management or forest practices? This tribal punk has on numerous occasions and have continued to do so for 20 plus years. Have you gone on to Dnr lands and done clean up? This tribal punk has. Have you volunteered on habitat enhancement? I have. Have you worked on herd augmentation and voluntarily given up right in the name of conservation? This punk/somewhat ethical tribal member has. I don't know you or your contributions to the great outdoors we are trying hard to save for future generations. As for the bills in question the gate keys matters very little to me personally, however I could build an arguement for allowing acess due to the huge difference in the two user groups. the 2nd bill doesn't change too many things as far as i can see. The state should still take precidence when its a saftey issue. The tribes already have jurisdiction of their own members within the ceded lands.

Please explain the difference    not wanting a fight just explain why tribal hunters are so different than everyone else...

[huntnphool]

As for the bills in question the gate keys matters very little to me personally, however I could build an arguement for allowing acess due to the huge difference in the two user groups.

Allowing access is not in question here, the treaties guarantee you that. However, as far as I know the treaties say nothing about allowing vehicles. Nobody has a issue with indians walking, biking or riding horses in.

[Green broke]

I dont know why these bills even need to be brought up, maybe to help you all understand them better, can already do what they say without needing this

I think it's obvious that the intent is to allow access behind locked gates, by motorized vehicle. No it doesn't specifically say that, but like you said, tribal members already have the right to hunt state land in their ceded area.

This new bill says the state cannot deny access. Which to me means the state cannot put up a gate, or if they do, the tribes will whine about it and demand to be given keys.

Is that not the way you understand it?

Uh, yeah.....  You know what all you tribal punks that want to take advantage of the system (no offense meant to those of you that appear to be somewhat ethical), the law may allow you to hunt wherever, but walk your butts in there.     I try to be nice and sensitive and understanding and all that, but give me a friggin break, and the wildlife too.  All of you know this is not a good thing for the resource, many just don't seem to care.   

    By the way offense taken.....

I'm sorry you were offended as you do seem to be one of the ethical ones that actually cares for the resource that I referred to in my exception, and yes, I have done a lot of these things having a degree in biology, worked for various state and federal agencies, taught high school biology, been a hunter ed instructor, girl scout leader, etc.

So, again, this is not referring to you, it is referring to those that would drive into closed areas and shoot five or more trophy bulls under the guise of "feeding their families" with no actual concern for the resource and habitat.  And, no, I have not seen this personally in this state (I have in OR) as I do not live on the eastside in the areas of concern.  I have read enough posts in the last three years or so to guess that this is an actual problem and not something just made up by one or two troublemaking hotheads.

If this offends you, again, I am sorry, but maybe you and your ethical cohorts need to get the rest under control so that those of us that do not have special privelages don't lump you in with the rest.

  Apology accepted. I maybe a little sensitive, I apologize too. Now I will play devils advocate and defend(an unknown) my eastside relatives. I will tell you I do not try to defend market(meat or antler) hunting in any way shape or form. Maybe some from the Yak nation are true hunters. I think a generalization would be that a true hunter can harvest an animal that is in the top 10% in terms of trophy quality.( just a generalization) It also is to some a status as a hunter to produce big animals(this is a time tested measurement). I do not advocate gross overharvest but if I was a Yak I probably would exercise my rights on trophy class animals too, I think most members of this site would given the oppurtunity.(while being aware of herd health)

[mfswallace]

GREEN BROKE------where'd you go

lokidog I'm not here to pick fights but seem to be finding them. You seem to care for our natural resources, I get that. Have you met with bios about concerns of herd management or forest practices? This tribal punk has on numerous occasions and have continued to do so for 20 plus years. Have you gone on to Dnr lands and done clean up? This tribal punk has. Have you volunteered on habitat enhancement? I have. Have you worked on herd augmentation and voluntarily given up right in the name of conservation? This punk/somewhat ethical tribal member has. I don't know you or your contributions to the great outdoors we are trying hard to save for future generations. As for the bills in question the gate keys matters very little to me personally, however I could build an arguement for allowing acess due to the huge difference in the two user groups. the 2nd bill doesn't change too many things as far as i can see. The state should still take precidence when its a saftey issue. The tribes already have jurisdiction of their own members within the ceded lands.

Please explain the difference    not wanting a fight just explain why tribal hunters are so different than everyone else...

[Green broke]

lokidog I'm not here to pick fights but seem to be finding them. You seem to care for our natural resources, I get that. Have you met with bios about concerns of herd management or forest practices? This tribal punk has on numerous occasions and have continued to do so for 20 plus years. Have you gone on to Dnr lands and done clean up? This tribal punk has. Have you volunteered on habitat enhancement? I have. Have you worked on herd augmentation and voluntarily given up right in the name of conservation? This punk/somewhat ethical tribal member has. I don't know you or your contributions to the great outdoors we are trying hard to save for future generations. As for the bills in question the gate keys matters very little to me personally, however I could build an arguement for allowing acess due to the huge difference in the two user groups. the 2nd bill doesn't change too many things as far as i can see. The state should still take precidence when its a saftey issue. The tribes already have jurisdiction of their own members within the ceded lands.

Please explain the difference    not wanting a fight just explain why tribal hunters are so different than everyone else...

I'm here. I sarted to explain my views earlier. Its a slippery slope for me to navigate when it comes to our differences. I have a responsibility to provide(and a ton of self placed pressure to produce).I do agree that there are many similarities but I would guess that few "sportsman" have been burdened/blessed with expectations that are placed upon myself and many other tribal hunters. I draw differences in meanings of bringing meat home(usually back to the rez) and its powers to heal and nourish, this is steeped in beliefs, but the mind is a powerful thing. We believe there is more than whats physically here and it ties into the hunting/gathering traditions. I have to watch what I say and apologize for my limitations. This is where (from a management perspective) I come to a "user group status" and feel the wildlife should be managed accordingly. The justifaction for gate keys may be to improve herd health by opening more area? I said it before and will say it again I do not need a key or acess to be sucessful in bringing meat home.  I hope I was able to give a little and hope nobody pukes from my post.(this post probably belongs in the  speak your mind thread)

[Green broke]

As for the bills in question the gate keys matters very little to me personally, however I could build an arguement for allowing acess due to the huge difference in the two user groups.

Allowing access is not in question here, the treaties guarantee you that. However, as far as I know the treaties say nothing about allowing vehicles. Nobody has a issue with indians walking, biking or riding horses in.

Huntnphool I wish your statement was accurate. We have been harassed on numerous occasions while walking in behind gates. From meeting my children and I with a drawn gun asking whats going on to our vehicle being vandalized.(and no this is not one of the threats i spoke of earlier. This was not a threat according to LE)

[lokidog]

As for the bills in question the gate keys matters very little to me personally, however I could build an arguement for allowing acess due to the huge difference in the two user groups.

Allowing access is not in question here, the treaties guarantee you that. However, as far as I know the treaties say nothing about allowing vehicles. Nobody has a issue with indians walking, biking or riding horses in.

Huntnphool I wish your statement was accurate. We have been harassed on numerous occasions while walking in behind gates. From meeting my children and I with a drawn gun asking whats going on to our vehicle being vandalized.(and no this is not one of the threats i spoke of earlier. This was not a threat according to LE)

Harassing you in your legal pursuit is not OK, I am sorry this has happened to you.  Hopefully, you understand the frustration of those of us that view special rights of any user group in our modern age unacceptable.  This does not excuse harrassment or vandalism which should be punished to the fullest.  The only way that a lot of this animosity will be assuaged is by the more enlightened tribal members, as you appear to be, to try to put a stop to the exploitation of the laws and resources by less enlightened individuals.  Many of us are attempting to put food on the table and have a chance at getting a "trophy" animal as well but have to follow the guidelines imposed by the State biologists that, theoretically, have the best interest of the herds in mind.  Good hunting.  Lokidog.

[mfswallace]

lokidog I'm not here to pick fights but seem to be finding them. You seem to care for our natural resources, I get that. Have you met with bios about concerns of herd management or forest practices? This tribal punk has on numerous occasions and have continued to do so for 20 plus years. Have you gone on to Dnr lands and done clean up? This tribal punk has. Have you volunteered on habitat enhancement? I have. Have you worked on herd augmentation and voluntarily given up right in the name of conservation? This punk/somewhat ethical tribal member has. I don't know you or your contributions to the great outdoors we are trying hard to save for future generations. As for the bills in question the gate keys matters very little to me personally, however I could build an arguement for allowing acess due to the huge difference in the two user groups. the 2nd bill doesn't change too many things as far as i can see. The state should still take precidence when its a saftey issue. The tribes already have jurisdiction of their own members within the ceded lands.

Please explain the difference    not wanting a fight just explain why tribal hunters are so different than everyone else...

I'm here. I sarted to explain my views earlier. Its a slippery slope for me to navigate when it comes to our differences. I have a responsibility to provide(and a ton of self placed pressure to produce).I do agree that there are many similarities but I would guess that few "sportsman" have been burdened/blessed with expectations that are placed upon myself and many other tribal hunters. I draw differences in meanings of bringing meat home(usually back to the rez) and its powers to heal and nourish, this is steeped in beliefs, but the mind is a powerful thing. We believe there is more than whats physically here and it ties into the hunting/gathering traditions. I have to watch what I say and apologize for my limitations. This is where (from a management perspective) I come to a "user group status" and feel the wildlife should be managed accordingly. The justifaction for gate keys may be to improve herd health by opening more area? I said it before and will say it again I do not need a key or acess to be sucessful in bringing meat home.  I hope I was able to give a little and hope nobody pukes from my post.

So it's to put meat on the table for the tribe, I get that.  My small family of 4 eat elk, deer, pheasant and duck *when able to harvest animals) as a staple because it is usually cheaper to buy $60 in groceries(bread, PBJ, granola bars and liquids), $100 in gas and $50 in ammo go hunt a few times then process and seal everything so we have something to eat when money runs out before the end of the month.......

Not sure I get the "opening more areas to 4x4's in order to keep herds healthy"....    

I get that you are a different type that doesn't need this and seem to be like Plat and some others here that are trying to foster cooperation throughout the tribes in being responsible stewards of the land.  There are "bad apples", on both sides of this tribal and non-tribal issue of saving something for those that follow but that is all the more reason to work together!!

Here's my perception/opinion with an honest question attached- it seems like the tribes try and hide or keep secrets to these kinds of activities(hunting/resource managment),  why ?? 
 
If all the harvest information was shared between state, fed and tribal agencies wouldn't we be able to better manage the land and animals?  Is there a negative aspect to knowing all you can about a subject that you need to find answers for??
 
I appreciate your time and thoughtfulness in trying to answer what you can 

[Green broke]

Your opinion on reporting is absolutely wrong and absolutely right. To confuse things more and educate/upset the general public. It is up to individual tribes to set standards of tagging and reporting. Many (not all)westside tribes report to nwifc. Seveal tribes have very strict reporting standards and even have incentive programs for reporting. I stated earlier this is a recent trend that continues to improve. Some tribes see no reason to place regulations or bag limits on their members( I have no dog in that fight and will not speak for or against them). With the composition of this state being(I believe the 3rd smallest land mass in the west, with the 3rd largest population) I think herd heath and management should be on the mind of all user groups. Not all think that reporting would improve state/tribal relations either(on this I myself am still a little undecided). If you look at recent expendatures by tribes on wildlife you may be pleasantly suprised. Tribes are hiring more and more bios and field staff with a focus on the future. So even if we are late to the management game at least we are here and moving in a positive direction. another positive is the tribes at times are not shackeled by politics when it comes to wildlife. They are also getting more involved in funding co-op projects with state agencies.

[huntnphool]

Your opinion on reporting is absolutely wrong and absolutely right. To confuse things more and educate/upset the general public. It is up to individual tribes to set standards of tagging and reporting. Many (not all)westside tribes report to nwifc. Seveal tribes have very strict reporting standards and even have incentive programs for reporting. I stated earlier this is a recent trend that continues to improve. Some tribes see no reason to place regulations or bag limits on their members( I have no dog in that fight and will not speak for or against them). With the composition of this state being(I believe the 3rd smallest land mass in the west, with the 3rd largest population) I think herd heath and management should be on the mind of all user groups. Not all think that reporting would improve state/tribal relations either(on this I myself am still a little undecided). If you look at recent expendatures by tribes on wildlife you may be pleasantly suprised. Tribes are hiring more and more bios and field staff with a focus on the future. So even if we are late to the management game at least we are here and moving in a positive direction. another positive is the tribes at times are not shackeled by politics when it comes to wildlife. They are also getting more involved in funding co-op projects with state agencies.

Good stuff GB, I can respect those views.

Any kind of harassment or intimidation is unacceptable IMO, and should be reported and dealt with by the authorities. 

[Warrior Wayz]

Treaty hunting rights are not rights granted to the tribes, rather they are rights reserved by the tribes.  By signing the treaty, the tribes retained those rights that they have possessed since time immorial.  www.wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/tribal/treaty_history.html

[Warrior Wayz]

FYI the Yakama Nation has 12 million acres that are ceeded and are not allowed to hunt in winter feeding areas (Dec. 15-Mar.31) and sanctuaries (Dec. 31-Mar.31) reguardless of GATES. 
www.ynwildlife.org/pdf/yakamahuntingrights.pdf

[Time Immemorial]

 
How ya like them apples
"Put that in your book"

[Warrior Wayz]

Another FYI, the Yakama Nation signed the treaty in 1855.  Washington did not become a state until 1889 as is the same with the State constitution.  Being the "ETHICAL" person that I am, I wonder who trumps whom??? When you add your 2 cents just make sure it isnt the 2 cents I dropped.