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Author Topic: New in 2020 The raw pelt with evidence of sex  (Read 4316 times)

Offline cougforester

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Re: New in 2020 The raw pelt with evidence of sex
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2020, 02:48:03 PM »
This was made known to applicants that it would be an additional requirement in order to hunt spring bear. If you donít want to comply fully with it, you should not hunt apply for the tag.

FTFY

You're right. I just didn't want to be too mean  :chuckle:

Offline Special T

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Re: New in 2020 The raw pelt with evidence of sex
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2020, 04:05:30 PM »
I posted the wdfw link and the data in the thread on this rule change proposal.

Yes we wernt reporting enough for the wdfw  but the difference is statistically insignificant. There are 2 bear MGT units that "overharvested" shows. And just barely. The units are kind of goofy but down around the puget sound was the unit stepping on the line. The North cascades went over the threshold 2x in 10 years.

I'll bet that if we are good and dont kill to many shows we MIGHT have a chance at OTC but our evidence of compliance has to be overwhelming.


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What youre missing there is that none of the sows taken were checked by wdfw to see if they were nursing cubs, and most of them were fall bears.  The cat ladies on the commission think every sow killed in the spring is nursing.  Pelt checks can prove one way or another.
Fair enough and perhaps it will put the issue to rest if they have the data.... so guys be extra careful out there.

My point however was that  early or late  most of the state doesn't harvest too many females, and there certainly isnt a shortage of bears anywhere, but certainly not on the coast.

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Offline hunter399

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Re: New in 2020 The raw pelt with evidence of sex
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2020, 05:23:43 AM »
OTC spring bear ,ya right like that's gonna happen.

Lot of people hsd that same attitude about the fall bear changes, and look how that went.  This can be done, but we need to put the nursing sows argument to rest.  Mandatory hide sealing for a few years is the ONLY way to do that.  Instead of constantly bitching and being a defeatist, maybe actually try to work on getting changes made.  If everybody had your defeatist attitude we would never see any change at all.  Same as your attitude on the cougar proposals.  Were likely going to get a significant harvest quota increase.  Is that going to solve the problem?  Not a chance, but its a start.
  You constantly bitch and moan about whats wrong with wdfw, but any time people try to find solutions and make changes you just run your mouth about that too and say its a waste of time.  You must just enjoy being miserable and having things to complain about since you seem to be so against anybody seeking positive changes.
Honestly I look at things through a financial prospective of how much money they will lose from selling permits .The fall bear season was a financial gain ,with selling two tags.See how that works out .To tell ya the truth I was against giving out two tags,August opener for bear was good enough for me.The cougar proposal until I see the new regs I'm not counting it as a winner for hunters just yet.But you read the proposal even in there they are concerned about the sale of there big game package. Financial is something that WDFW look at before changes are made.
On topic yes as a permit holder I will do what as is recommended to participate in the hunt ,which I know it was when I appled .
OTC spring bear would I buy a tag -yes
Do I think it's gonna happen-no

Look at it as it sits now ,you want everybody to carry out there bear hide on the pipe dream of a OTC spring bear season for how many years.With no guarantee of changes .
« Last Edit: March 26, 2020, 07:40:49 AM by hunter399 »
Two birds in the Bush is always better than one in the hand-that way you can always go to the Bush and hunt another day .conservation=Better hunting.
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Offline dilleytech

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Re: New in 2020 The raw pelt with evidence of sex
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2020, 08:51:11 AM »
People wonít even send in a tooth. They think guys are going to pack a wet hide out of the backcountry just to comply with the law? Sadly most wont. If they want full compliance they need to clarify the exact pieces of the hide they need to seal not the entire thing.

We should expect a drastic decline in reported harvests this spring. But I suppose thatís what they want..

Offline Bango skank

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Re: New in 2020 The raw pelt with evidence of sex
« Reply #19 on: March 28, 2020, 08:56:30 AM »
People wonít even send in a tooth. They think guys are going to pack a wet hide out of the backcountry just to comply with the law? Sadly most wont. If they want full compliance they need to clarify the exact pieces of the hide they need to seal not the entire thing.

We should expect a drastic decline in reported harvests this spring. But I suppose thatís what they want..

Do you really think there are that many bear hunters that dont want to keep the hides?  I bet most do want them.  And just like cougar, a taxidermist wont take an unsealed spring bear hide now.  If you want to keep the hide, have it tanned, rugged or whatever, you will have to have it checked.  I really dont think the percentage of guys hunting spring bear that dont want to keep the hides is very significant.

The tooth thing is a bad comparison because a guy could always keep his hide, meat, skull and not send in the tooth, there was nothing to stop him from doing that.  But now if you want to take your hide in to a taxidermist, youll have to have it sealed or the taxi wont take it.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2020, 09:04:30 AM by Bango skank »

Offline The scout

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Re: New in 2020 The raw pelt with evidence of sex
« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2020, 09:06:18 AM »
I agree with you Bango the number is not very significant, but I personally have zero interest in keeping the hide from a bear I shoot. I have lost count of how many I have killed and I have packed out one hide thinking I might be able to trade it for euroing the skull

Offline hunter399

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Re: New in 2020 The raw pelt with evidence of sex
« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2020, 09:08:40 AM »
People wonít even send in a tooth. They think guys are going to pack a wet hide out of the backcountry just to comply with the law? Sadly most wont. If they want full compliance they need to clarify the exact pieces of the hide they need to seal not the entire thing.

We should expect a drastic decline in reported harvests this spring. But I suppose thatís what they want..

Do you really think there are that many bear hunters that dont want to keep the hides?  I bet most do want them.  And just like cougar, a taxidermist wont take an unsealed spring bear hide now.  If you want to keep the hide, have it tanned, rugged or whatever, you will have to have it checked.  I really dont think the percentage of guys hunting spring bear that dont want to keep the hides is very significant.

The tooth thing is a bad comparison because a guy could always keep his hide, meat, skull and not send in the tooth, there was nothing to stop him from doing that.  But now if you want to take your hide in to a taxidermist, youll have to have it sealed or the taxi wont take it.
All I'm saying if I shoot a spring bear 5-10 miles off the road or away from the truck ,I'm going to be thinking about you the whole time packing that hide Bango. :chuckle: :chuckle:
Two birds in the Bush is always better than one in the hand-that way you can always go to the Bush and hunt another day .conservation=Better hunting.
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Offline dilleytech

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Re: New in 2020 The raw pelt with evidence of sex
« Reply #22 on: March 29, 2020, 08:27:36 AM »
People wonít even send in a tooth. They think guys are going to pack a wet hide out of the backcountry just to comply with the law? Sadly most wont. If they want full compliance they need to clarify the exact pieces of the hide they need to seal not the entire thing.

We should expect a drastic decline in reported harvests this spring. But I suppose thatís what they want..

Do you really think there are that many bear hunters that dont want to keep the hides?  I bet most do want them.  And just like cougar, a taxidermist wont take an unsealed spring bear hide now.  If you want to keep the hide, have it tanned, rugged or whatever, you will have to have it checked.  I really dont think the percentage of guys hunting spring bear that dont want to keep the hides is very significant.

The tooth thing is a bad comparison because a guy could always keep his hide, meat, skull and not send in the tooth, there was nothing to stop him from doing that.  But now if you want to take your hide in to a taxidermist, youll have to have it sealed or the taxi wont take it.

Absolutely and Iím one of them. Bear hunters tend to be guys who kill them on a regular basis and how many bear hides do you need? The guy who randomly kills a bear on a deer hunt once in his life is usually not the guy going on spring bear hunts every year. I have no interest in a bear hide at this point. Also I got my cougar rug last year. Further cougars would likely be for the meat and predator control same with bears. One bear rug one cougar rug one bear hide and one bear shoulder mount Is good for our house. My bear hide from last fall went into the garbage.

This rule needs clarified to specific portions of the hide if thereís any realistic compliance.

Offline Bango skank

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Re: New in 2020 The raw pelt with evidence of sex
« Reply #23 on: March 29, 2020, 08:34:59 AM »
People wonít even send in a tooth. They think guys are going to pack a wet hide out of the backcountry just to comply with the law? Sadly most wont. If they want full compliance they need to clarify the exact pieces of the hide they need to seal not the entire thing.

We should expect a drastic decline in reported harvests this spring. But I suppose thatís what they want..

Do you really think there are that many bear hunters that dont want to keep the hides?  I bet most do want them.  And just like cougar, a taxidermist wont take an unsealed spring bear hide now.  If you want to keep the hide, have it tanned, rugged or whatever, you will have to have it checked.  I really dont think the percentage of guys hunting spring bear that dont want to keep the hides is very significant.

The tooth thing is a bad comparison because a guy could always keep his hide, meat, skull and not send in the tooth, there was nothing to stop him from doing that.  But now if you want to take your hide in to a taxidermist, youll have to have it sealed or the taxi wont take it.

Absolutely and Iím one of them. Bear hunters tend to be guys who kill them on a regular basis and how many bear hides do you need? The guy who randomly kills a bear on a deer hunt once in his life is usually not the guy going on spring bear hunts every year. I have no interest in a bear hide at this point. Also I got my cougar rug last year. Further cougars would likely be for the meat and predator control same with bears. One bear rug one cougar rug one bear hide and one bear shoulder mount Is good for our house. My bear hide from last fall went into the garbage.

This rule needs clarified to specific portions of the hide if thereís any realistic compliance.

Nobody goes on spring bear hunts every year in washington.  Ive drawn one time out of 9 years applying.  Lot of people draw spring bear having never killed a bear, or at least very few.  I know some people dont want the hides, but i just dont believe that percentage is all that large.  And for those that dont want the hides, and are bothered by the hide sealing requirement, the answer is simple, dont spply for spring bear, hunt them in the fall.  Because the regs are quite clear, the hide must be presented to a wdfw official for inspection and sealing.  Nothing about that needs clarification imo.  Pack the hide out, chuck it after its sealed.  If thats too much work for ya then dont hunt them in the spring.

Offline HillHound

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Re: New in 2020 The raw pelt with evidence of sex
« Reply #24 on: March 29, 2020, 08:44:09 AM »
Yep thatís where Iím at. Thatís the nice thing if itís too far back there and you donít want to pack the hide out pass on shooting  it and you still donít burn your tag and you can still use them both in the fall. Personally Iíve never let any of the work that was going to have to be done after the harvest weighing on my decision to shoot or not. I shoot it and then figure out what the hell Iím gonna do. Probably wouldnít have half the animals I had if I was worried about the work it would take to get it out

Offline dilleytech

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Re: New in 2020 The raw pelt with evidence of sex
« Reply #25 on: March 29, 2020, 09:02:18 AM »
People wonít even send in a tooth. They think guys are going to pack a wet hide out of the backcountry just to comply with the law? Sadly most wont. If they want full compliance they need to clarify the exact pieces of the hide they need to seal not the entire thing.

We should expect a drastic decline in reported harvests this spring. But I suppose thatís what they want..

Do you really think there are that many bear hunters that dont want to keep the hides?  I bet most do want them.  And just like cougar, a taxidermist wont take an unsealed spring bear hide now.  If you want to keep the hide, have it tanned, rugged or whatever, you will have to have it checked.  I really dont think the percentage of guys hunting spring bear that dont want to keep the hides is very significant.

The tooth thing is a bad comparison because a guy could always keep his hide, meat, skull and not send in the tooth, there was nothing to stop him from doing that.  But now if you want to take your hide in to a taxidermist, youll have to have it sealed or the taxi wont take it.

Absolutely and Iím one of them. Bear hunters tend to be guys who kill them on a regular basis and how many bear hides do you need? The guy who randomly kills a bear on a deer hunt once in his life is usually not the guy going on spring bear hunts every year. I have no interest in a bear hide at this point. Also I got my cougar rug last year. Further cougars would likely be for the meat and predator control same with bears. One bear rug one cougar rug one bear hide and one bear shoulder mount Is good for our house. My bear hide from last fall went into the garbage.

This rule needs clarified to specific portions of the hide if thereís any realistic compliance.

Nobody goes on spring bear hunts every year in washington.  Ive drawn one time out of 9 years applying.  Lot of people draw spring bear having never killed a bear, or at least very few.  I know some people dont want the hides, but i just dont believe that percentage is all that large.  And for those that dont want the hides, and are bothered by the hide sealing requirement, the answer is simple, dont spply for spring bear, hunt them in the fall.  Because the regs are quite clear, the hide must be presented to a wdfw official for inspection and sealing.  Nothing about that needs clarification imo.  Pack the hide out, chuck it after its sealed.  If thats too much work for ya then dont hunt them in the spring.

I wasnít talking about Washington only I meant the guys who go spring bear hunting out of state also every year or so such as Idaho. Which seems more and more common.

Offline dilleytech

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Re: New in 2020 The raw pelt with evidence of sex
« Reply #26 on: March 29, 2020, 09:28:40 AM »
I just think they could easily put something out saying what we require is proof of sex, patch of hide including at least one nipple, and the teeth or skull within 2 weeks of kill. Simple. They get what they need and more people fully comply.

Offline Bango skank

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Re: New in 2020 The raw pelt with evidence of sex
« Reply #27 on: March 29, 2020, 09:37:30 AM »
I just think they could easily put something out saying what we require is proof of sex, patch of hide including at least one nipple, and the teeth or skull within 2 weeks of kill. Simple. They get what they need and more people fully comply.

But they didnt. 

But they did announce the requirement, so if somebody is that put off by it, they shouldnt apply.  People being compliant with this is our only chance of getting otc or expanded spring bear.  Anybody who applys with the intention of not complying is screwing everybody else over, cause theyre too lazy to pack a hide.  Hunt the fall if you dont like it.

And interesting youre using guys hunting spring bear every year in idaho etc as justification for not packing out a spring hide in wa.  Idaho has hide sealing requirement on all bears, both spring and fall.

If you feel that wdfw could / should specify only a partial hide consisting of this or thst part is acceptable, start emailing wdfw and try to get that change made.  Have you actually gone to the department with this?

Offline dmoua

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Re: New in 2020 The raw pelt with evidence of sex
« Reply #28 on: March 29, 2020, 09:38:22 AM »
I just think they could easily put something out saying what we require is proof of sex, patch of hide including at least one nipple, and the teeth or skull within 2 weeks of kill. Simple. They get what they need and more people fully comply.

People don't even comply with just sending in the tooth.
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Offline Bango skank

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Re: New in 2020 The raw pelt with evidence of sex
« Reply #29 on: March 29, 2020, 09:42:44 AM »
I just think they could easily put something out saying what we require is proof of sex, patch of hide including at least one nipple, and the teeth or skull within 2 weeks of kill. Simple. They get what they need and more people fully comply.

People don't even comply with just sending in the tooth.

Yeah, but theyve been able to not comply with that, and still take besrs to the taxidermist.  Now with the hide sealing requirement, a taxi wont touch a non sealed spring bear.  So anybody who does want anything done with their hide will have no choice but to comply with the hide sealing.

 


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