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Author Topic: 7 calves attacked yesterday  (Read 2461 times)

Offline KFhunter

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Re: 7 calves attacked yesterday
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2020, 09:54:00 PM »
When you say you were trailing a pack of wolves, what do you mean?

following very fresh tracks in the snow with my snowmobile


I was looking for lion tracks, cause I had a mt lion tag in my pocket and a backpack full of calls and decoys  :tup:

Offline Buckhunter24

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Re: 7 calves attacked yesterday
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2020, 09:58:35 PM »
 :tup:

Offline buglebrush

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Re: 7 calves attacked yesterday
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2020, 10:45:49 PM »
Poison. 

Offline Skyvalhunter

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Re: 7 calves attacked yesterday
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2020, 05:48:48 AM »
With what

Offline CGDucksandDeer

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Re: 7 calves attacked yesterday
« Reply #19 on: July 15, 2020, 02:09:32 PM »
I think a rancher who protected his assets in the face of inaction by the government would certainly have a strong case for dismissal. The wolves in that are are no longer protected federally. He'd need to worry only about state charges and they have refused to allow removal even after removal criteria, a criteria which was agreed upon by a diverse panel, has been met, and then some. I'm not a fan of poaching. I'm also not a fan of seeing people lose their livelihood due to their elected officials playing politics. I'd certainly vote not guilty.

That might be true, except that this will be the 5th year in a row that the state has authorized lethal wolf removal to protect livestock for one of the two ranches currently experiencing cattle depredations by the Wedge Pack (Diamond M). Is the state swooping in to protect a private operation on public lands 5 summers in a row good business?

And this case gets even more complicated by the fact that range riding was inconsistent in this area in 2019 (remember that investigation and article about the riders taking trips to the Davenport Hotel when they were billing range rider hours in the northern Kettle Range?).

And again this spring, when WDFW determined there was a gap in range rider coverage in May during the first four depredations in the Wedge, and since then there has not been a publicly available assessment of range rider coverage or other non-lethal deterrence efforts over the time period of the most recent injuries to cattle.

It's a crappy situation, as the Wedge wolves are exhibiting chronic depredation behavior, and action will be needed. But the ranch involved hasn't consistently met the state's conflict avoidance requirements (Wolf-Livestock Interaction Protocol), and has enjoyed the support of expensive state wolf killing the past four summers. The social response, and some form of involvement from the Governor, should be expected. Hopefully it doesn't lead to worse for everyone involved in the form of an initiative or legislation.

Offline KFhunter

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Re: 7 calves attacked yesterday
« Reply #20 on: July 15, 2020, 03:01:34 PM »
I think a rancher who protected his assets in the face of inaction by the government would certainly have a strong case for dismissal. The wolves in that are are no longer protected federally. He'd need to worry only about state charges and they have refused to allow removal even after removal criteria, a criteria which was agreed upon by a diverse panel, has been met, and then some. I'm not a fan of poaching. I'm also not a fan of seeing people lose their livelihood due to their elected officials playing politics. I'd certainly vote not guilty.

That might be true, except that this will be the 5th year in a row that the state has authorized lethal wolf removal to protect livestock for one of the two ranches currently experiencing cattle depredations by the Wedge Pack (Diamond M). Is the state swooping in to protect a private operation on public lands 5 summers in a row good business?

This statement above is full of half truths and misconceptions.  The Diamond M is the largest cattle ranch by far in the area where the wolves first took a major foothold in Washington.  Of course they're going to have the most problems.  Also, a lot of the depredations (and all of the depredations prior to June) was all on private land. 
I don't have the exact number, but I think it was a majority of the total depredations did occur on private lands.   This is victim shaming and ousting the name of the ranch involved which WDFW decided to withhold that information due to public threats...yet here you are ousting them?
   


And this case gets even more complicated by the fact that range riding was inconsistent in this area in 2019 (remember that investigation and article about the riders taking trips to the Davenport Hotel when they were billing range rider hours in the northern Kettle Range?).

The range riding was inconsistent because it was full of grift, and was front loaded with pro-wolf agenda people. The ranchers had a major distrust for the range rider program, as they should have.  The first range rider on the wedge was some old hippy who drove up in his truck, went down a few back roads then left about 15 minutes later.  Now, the range rider program has improved greatly, but its still more of a cattle corpse finding operation than it is prevention.  This ranch ate the range rider cost for years, they do it themselves, but the state will not allow them to kill wolves unless caught in the act,  which is dammed difficult if WDFW won't tell you where the wolves are!   


And again this spring, when WDFW determined there was a gap in range rider coverage in May during the first four depredations in the Wedge, and since then there has not been a publicly available assessment of range rider coverage or other non-lethal deterrence efforts over the time period of the most recent injuries to cattle.

That goes back to what I was saying earlier, there's simply too much ground to cover with little to no visibility,  and due to WDFW abject failure to collar wolves (and share that info) it was set up for failure from the get go.  It cannot succeed without 1) a lot of wolves collared and 2) a lot of range riders and 3) information sharing with range riders

It's a crappy situation, as the Wedge wolves are exhibiting chronic depredation behavior, and action will be needed. But the ranch involved hasn't consistently met the state's conflict avoidance requirements (Wolf-Livestock Interaction Protocol), and has enjoyed the support of expensive state wolf killing the past four summers. The social response, and some form of involvement from the Governor, should be expected. Hopefully it doesn't lead to worse for everyone involved in the form of an initiative or legislation.

This is another half-truth at best,  according to WDFW the ranch has complied with ALL conflict avoidance measures including fladery, range riders, strobes, hazing and other crap that don't and won't ever work.


You won't be able to come on HW and spread half-truths and misconceptions, nor will you get to victim shame the ranchers who are trying their best to run a ranch and comply with WDFW conflict specialists.

You're either seriously mislead, or spreading lies on purpose.

Offline pianoman9701

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Re: 7 calves attacked yesterday
« Reply #21 on: July 15, 2020, 03:42:50 PM »
I think a rancher who protected his assets in the face of inaction by the government would certainly have a strong case for dismissal. The wolves in that are are no longer protected federally. He'd need to worry only about state charges and they have refused to allow removal even after removal criteria, a criteria which was agreed upon by a diverse panel, has been met, and then some. I'm not a fan of poaching. I'm also not a fan of seeing people lose their livelihood due to their elected officials playing politics. I'd certainly vote not guilty.

That might be true, except that this will be the 5th year in a row that the state has authorized lethal wolf removal to protect livestock for one of the two ranches currently experiencing cattle depredations by the Wedge Pack (Diamond M). Is the state swooping in to protect a private operation on public lands 5 summers in a row good business?

And this case gets even more complicated by the fact that range riding was inconsistent in this area in 2019 (remember that investigation and article about the riders taking trips to the Davenport Hotel when they were billing range rider hours in the northern Kettle Range?).

And again this spring, when WDFW determined there was a gap in range rider coverage in May during the first four depredations in the Wedge, and since then there has not been a publicly available assessment of range rider coverage or other non-lethal deterrence efforts over the time period of the most recent injuries to cattle.

It's a crappy situation, as the Wedge wolves are exhibiting chronic depredation behavior, and action will be needed. But the ranch involved hasn't consistently met the state's conflict avoidance requirements (Wolf-Livestock Interaction Protocol), and has enjoyed the support of expensive state wolf killing the past four summers. The social response, and some form of involvement from the Governor, should be expected. Hopefully it doesn't lead to worse for everyone involved in the form of an initiative or legislation.

Are you joking? Diamond M has been there for generations. The wolves were exterminated there for a reason - they don't belong there. If they belong anywhere in WA, they belong way up in the mountains in wilderness areas where they can decimate elk and deer populations. The WDF&Wolves allowed the Canadian wolves into the state about 16 years ago without a plan in place, promising reparations to ranchers who had verified wolf predation. These predations have been verified and reverified, and reverified. There is no ROI in the plan that says after so many years the ranchers will stop being paid. They will be payed...by endless taxpayer dollars into a program that never should have happened in the first place. Non-lethal measures have been shoved down the same throats that the whole, horrible wolf plan was. The two ranches you're talking about are, I believe, the two biggest in the state and have the most at risk. They supply most of us with beef. As the prices of meat continues to rise, that's the ROI we should be thinking about and making it so that these people are able to stay in business and continue to feed our people and manage the land their families have had for over 100 years.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2020, 04:03:33 PM by pianoman9701 »
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Offline westside bull

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Re: 7 calves attacked yesterday
« Reply #22 on: July 15, 2020, 05:16:44 PM »
Well said Pianoman.

Offline Ghost Hunter

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Re: 7 calves attacked yesterday
« Reply #23 on: July 15, 2020, 05:39:19 PM »
10 has to hit the pocket  book..  Curious how close the calf kills were to me?  Been too busy to run around much.  Cattle aren't in the woods till June, wouldn't expect range riders? 
Are they tracking with airplanes,.  Had one flying the area yesterday
Economy failure = Too many people spending money they don't have on things they don't need to impress people they don't like.

Offline ribka

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Re: 7 calves attacked yesterday
« Reply #24 on: July 15, 2020, 06:49:55 PM »


I see Mitch friedman, the self admitted eco terrorist and anti hunting advocate, is paying you to post lies and misinformation again.  You've been called out on multiple lies on here then ran away. Is CNW running out of scam money again like your wolf psychologist and the range riders?  :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: I see you're now trying to profit off of AOC's green energy scam now

https://www.conservationnw.org/conservation-can-create-jobs/

and now the social justice

https://www.conservationnw.org/commitment-to-justice-equity-diversity-and-inclusion/



No one on here believes your nonsense.  Before you post you should remind people on here you are a paid propagandist for the anti hunting CNW.

Ask Mitch when he spent 20 years in the eco terrorist group Earth First and was spiking thousands of trees to shut down logging if he ever paid the hospital bills of hard working loggers who were injured and missed work because of his activity of illegally and criminally spiking trees.

And a big thanks to Mitch for helping ruin mule deer, moose and elk hunting here in Washington, N ID  and E Oregon. And a another big thanks to Mitch for wiping out the mountain caribou herds in N ID and BC.



I think a rancher who protected his assets in the face of inaction by the government would certainly have a strong case for dismissal. The wolves in that are are no longer protected federally. He'd need to worry only about state charges and they have refused to allow removal even after removal criteria, a criteria which was agreed upon by a diverse panel, has been met, and then some. I'm not a fan of poaching. I'm also not a fan of seeing people lose their livelihood due to their elected officials playing politics. I'd certainly vote not guilty.

That might be true, except that this will be the 5th year in a row that the state has authorized lethal wolf removal to protect livestock for one of the two ranches currently experiencing cattle depredations by the Wedge Pack (Diamond M). Is the state swooping in to protect a private operation on public lands 5 summers in a row good business?

And this case gets even more complicated by the fact that range riding was inconsistent in this area in 2019 (remember that investigation and article about the riders taking trips to the Davenport Hotel when they were billing range rider hours in the northern Kettle Range?).

And again this spring, when WDFW determined there was a gap in range rider coverage in May during the first four depredations in the Wedge, and since then there has not been a publicly available assessment of range rider coverage or other non-lethal deterrence efforts over the time period of the most recent injuries to cattle.

It's a crappy situation, as the Wedge wolves are exhibiting chronic depredation behavior, and action will be needed. But the ranch involved hasn't consistently met the state's conflict avoidance requirements (Wolf-Livestock Interaction Protocol), and has enjoyed the support of expensive state wolf killing the past four summers. The social response, and some form of involvement from the Governor, should be expected. Hopefully it doesn't lead to worse for everyone involved in the form of an initiative or legislation.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2020, 07:04:10 PM by ribka »

Offline Dale Gribble

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Re: 7 calves attacked yesterday
« Reply #25 on: July 15, 2020, 06:59:37 PM »
 :yeah:

Good ol chase, coming to HW to spread CNW’s lies again, dang near thought he’d given up as of late.

Offline ribka

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Re: 7 calves attacked yesterday
« Reply #26 on: July 15, 2020, 07:07:26 PM »
:yeah:

Good ol chase, coming to HW to spread CNW’s lies again, dang near thought he’d given up as of late.

He has a communications degree ( no science, math  classes) but lectures others on wildlife management and science like everyone else are ignorant uneducated children.  :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:

And you can thank CNW for shutting down all timber management so we now have huge fires all over the west destroying wildlife  habitat. These folks are dangerous idiots.

Chase I just checked out CNW's social media. Wow CNW was really pushing the Cascade griz re introduction. Guessing CNW must have really wanted to monetize that after making a mint off of the failed wolf introduction.

Just more parasitic activity
« Last Edit: July 15, 2020, 09:05:23 PM by ribka »

Offline Ridgeratt

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Re: 7 calves attacked yesterday
« Reply #27 on: July 16, 2020, 07:09:47 AM »
I think a rancher who protected his assets in the face of inaction by the government would certainly have a strong case for dismissal. The wolves in that are are no longer protected federally. He'd need to worry only about state charges and they have refused to allow removal even after removal criteria, a criteria which was agreed upon by a diverse panel, has been met, and then some. I'm not a fan of poaching. I'm also not a fan of seeing people lose their livelihood due to their elected officials playing politics. I'd certainly vote not guilty.

That might be true, except that this will be the 5th year in a row that the state has authorized lethal wolf removal to protect livestock for one of the two ranches currently experiencing cattle depredations by the Wedge Pack (Diamond M). Is the state swooping in to protect a private operation on public lands 5 summers in a row good business?

And this case gets even more complicated by the fact that range riding was inconsistent in this area in 2019 (remember that investigation and article about the riders taking trips to the Davenport Hotel when they were billing range rider hours in the northern Kettle Range?).

And again this spring, when WDFW determined there was a gap in range rider coverage in May during the first four depredations in the Wedge, and since then there has not been a publicly available assessment of range rider coverage or other non-lethal deterrence efforts over the time period of the most recent injuries to cattle.

It's a crappy situation, as the Wedge wolves are exhibiting chronic depredation behavior, and action will be needed. But the ranch involved hasn't consistently met the state's conflict avoidance requirements (Wolf-Livestock Interaction Protocol), and has enjoyed the support of expensive state wolf killing the past four summers. The social response, and some form of involvement from the Governor, should be expected. Hopefully it doesn't lead to worse for everyone involved in the form of an initiative or legislation.

https://chewelahindependent.com/wdfw-refers-range-rider-inconsistencies-to-prosecutors/

MORE WOLF DRAMA: Investigation singles out two range riders who filed hours for work in Stevens County when they were allegedly in Spokane…
The Spokesman-Review is reporting that a WDFW investigation alleges that two range riders were in Spokane when they were supposed to be in Ferry County as part of nonlethal deterrents against wolves. WDFW has turned in their investigation findings to a Thurston County prosecutor, Eli Francovich reports.

The range riders denied the allegations to the Spokesman-Review.

According to the investigation, range riders Arron and Jolene Scotten said they worked and were paid for days they did not work.

WDFW recommended second degree theft chargers be brought up against the two range riders. On Sept. 4 and 5, they claimed to have worked a combined 25 hours, but were allegedly in Spokane buying building supplies. On Sept. 18, Scotten claimed to have worked seven hours, but the investigation said he stayed the night at the Davenport Hotel on Sept. 18 and 19. Jolene Scotten claimed to have worked eight hours on Sept. 19 but phone records place her in Spokane.




 

WDFW contracts out $352,000 total in range rider contracts. The state agency manages the range riders, not the cattle producers. The state alleges that the Scottens stole around $2,000.

Conservation Northwest released a statement saying that the range riders were not under contract with the conservation group, but that they do operate their own range rider pilot program.

Arron Scotten told the Spokesman-Review that he loans his phone out which is why the phone records show him in Spokane.

He did not get a state contract in 2019 because of the WDFW investigation.

The Spokesman-Review reported that Scotten had teamed up with former WDFW biologist and Chewelah resident Jay Shepherd to form the Northeast Washington Wolf-Cattle Collaborative. Scotten resigned his seat on the board of the collaborative on Nov. 9, 2018, Shepherd told the Spokane paper, saying that he wanted to be paid by the organization but that it is illegal for board members to be paid by the nonprofit they serve.

Shepard said shortly after he resigned, they learned of the WDFW investigation into him. He also told the Spokesman that people should use caution in drawing conclusions since its a politicized issue.

Some conservation groups point out that wolf depredations occurred when the Scottens should have been patrolling. Some of these depredations led to lethal removal of wolves.



Chase

Why is it that you claim no affiliation to the Range riders who abused the program, But one of your own members of CNW formed the collaboration that they were being perhaps funded by?

Your website lists this person as the Wolf Lead?

https://www.conservationnw.org/meet-our-staff/jay-shepherd/

Is this just coincidence?


« Last Edit: July 16, 2020, 07:16:09 AM by Ridgeratt »

Offline ribka

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Re: 7 calves attacked yesterday
« Reply #28 on: July 16, 2020, 09:38:33 AM »
Chase and CNW have called out already multiple times for lying and misinformation on here over the years. A few years ago I brought to Chase's attention that CNW staff were active members in anti hunting organizations trying to ban hunting and trapping. Not surprised he is lying again.I guess Mitch is running out of money at CNW after milking the wolf scam for years  so he ordered Chase to make the rounds again on sportsmen's sites and social media to spread fake CNW news. 



I think a rancher who protected his assets in the face of inaction by the government would certainly have a strong case for dismissal. The wolves in that are are no longer protected federally. He'd need to worry only about state charges and they have refused to allow removal even after removal criteria, a criteria which was agreed upon by a diverse panel, has been met, and then some. I'm not a fan of poaching. I'm also not a fan of seeing people lose their livelihood due to their elected officials playing politics. I'd certainly vote not guilty.

That might be true, except that this will be the 5th year in a row that the state has authorized lethal wolf removal to protect livestock for one of the two ranches currently experiencing cattle depredations by the Wedge Pack (Diamond M). Is the state swooping in to protect a private operation on public lands 5 summers in a row good business?

And this case gets even more complicated by the fact that range riding was inconsistent in this area in 2019 (remember that investigation and article about the riders taking trips to the Davenport Hotel when they were billing range rider hours in the northern Kettle Range?).

And again this spring, when WDFW determined there was a gap in range rider coverage in May during the first four depredations in the Wedge, and since then there has not been a publicly available assessment of range rider coverage or other non-lethal deterrence efforts over the time period of the most recent injuries to cattle.

It's a crappy situation, as the Wedge wolves are exhibiting chronic depredation behavior, and action will be needed. But the ranch involved hasn't consistently met the state's conflict avoidance requirements (Wolf-Livestock Interaction Protocol), and has enjoyed the support of expensive state wolf killing the past four summers. The social response, and some form of involvement from the Governor, should be expected. Hopefully it doesn't lead to worse for everyone involved in the form of an initiative or legislation.

https://chewelahindependent.com/wdfw-refers-range-rider-inconsistencies-to-prosecutors/

MORE WOLF DRAMA: Investigation singles out two range riders who filed hours for work in Stevens County when they were allegedly in Spokane…
The Spokesman-Review is reporting that a WDFW investigation alleges that two range riders were in Spokane when they were supposed to be in Ferry County as part of nonlethal deterrents against wolves. WDFW has turned in their investigation findings to a Thurston County prosecutor, Eli Francovich reports.

The range riders denied the allegations to the Spokesman-Review.

According to the investigation, range riders Arron and Jolene Scotten said they worked and were paid for days they did not work.

WDFW recommended second degree theft chargers be brought up against the two range riders. On Sept. 4 and 5, they claimed to have worked a combined 25 hours, but were allegedly in Spokane buying building supplies. On Sept. 18, Scotten claimed to have worked seven hours, but the investigation said he stayed the night at the Davenport Hotel on Sept. 18 and 19. Jolene Scotten claimed to have worked eight hours on Sept. 19 but phone records place her in Spokane.




 

WDFW contracts out $352,000 total in range rider contracts. The state agency manages the range riders, not the cattle producers. The state alleges that the Scottens stole around $2,000.

Conservation Northwest released a statement saying that the range riders were not under contract with the conservation group, but that they do operate their own range rider pilot program.

Arron Scotten told the Spokesman-Review that he loans his phone out which is why the phone records show him in Spokane.

He did not get a state contract in 2019 because of the WDFW investigation.

The Spokesman-Review reported that Scotten had teamed up with former WDFW biologist and Chewelah resident Jay Shepherd to form the Northeast Washington Wolf-Cattle Collaborative. Scotten resigned his seat on the board of the collaborative on Nov. 9, 2018, Shepherd told the Spokane paper, saying that he wanted to be paid by the organization but that it is illegal for board members to be paid by the nonprofit they serve.

Shepard said shortly after he resigned, they learned of the WDFW investigation into him. He also told the Spokesman that people should use caution in drawing conclusions since its a politicized issue.

Some conservation groups point out that wolf depredations occurred when the Scottens should have been patrolling. Some of these depredations led to lethal removal of wolves.



Chase

Why is it that you claim no affiliation to the Range riders who abused the program, But one of your own members of CNW formed the collaboration that they were being perhaps funded by?

Your website lists this person as the Wolf Lead?

https://www.conservationnw.org/meet-our-staff/jay-shepherd/

Is this just coincidence?

Offline idahohuntr

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Re: 7 calves attacked yesterday
« Reply #29 on: July 16, 2020, 10:20:12 AM »
WDFW should get out of any and all involvement with wolves.  Leave wolf management to state ag/livestock/ecology whoever and any others with interests in wolves (CNW, Sierra club...whoever else wants in on this bs).  WDFW should have nothing to do with this political mess that consumes huge amounts of sportsman's money...that is the biggest crime of all...sportsman resources being used in a fight largely between tree huggers and private cattle ranchers...the biggest loser in this: the Sportsman of Washington state.

*I might have a different opinion if I thought there was a chance for actual wolf management in this state, but given the politics, its just not in the realm of possibility.   
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood..." - TR

 


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