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Author Topic: Scopes for 2021 WA Muzzleloader season?  (Read 155159 times)

Offline Limhangerslayer

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Re: Scopes for 2021 WA Muzzleloader season?
« Reply #315 on: January 14, 2021, 06:28:36 PM »
There were roughly 14k muzzleloader elk tags sold in 2019 in WA. Say even just 25% would buy a scope. That's 3500 scopes, made in China for $150, sold here for $350, 30% taxes, a scope manufacturer would be looking at $140 margins. That's nearly 500k for the company that makes one.  The only extra cost in R&D would be the engineer sitting on the computer for a day or two removing the magnification from one of their existing scope bodies. Why wouldn't a company make the leap?
there’s no R&D needed, Utah had the 1x season and vortex has a scope already. Just out of stock.  If it becomes legal they will push them out afterwards.  There are lots of red dots to use.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2021, 07:03:37 PM by Limhangerslayer »

Offline Wizekrakr

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Re: Scopes for 2021 WA Muzzleloader season?
« Reply #316 on: January 14, 2021, 07:40:45 PM »
There were roughly 14k muzzleloader elk tags sold in 2019 in WA. Say even just 25% would buy a scope. That's 3500 scopes, made in China for $150, sold here for $350, 30% taxes, a scope manufacturer would be looking at $140 margins. That's nearly 500k for the company that makes one.  The only extra cost in R&D would be the engineer sitting on the computer for a day or two removing the magnification from one of their existing scope bodies. Why wouldn't a company make the leap?
there’s no R&D needed, Utah had the 1x season and vortex has a scope already. Just out of stock.  If it becomes legal they will push them out afterwards.  There are lots of red dots to use.

Current Regs say it is unlawful to have any electrical device or equipment attached to a muzzle loader.  That would include Red dot scopes.

Offline Limhangerslayer

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Re: Scopes for 2021 WA Muzzleloader season?
« Reply #317 on: January 14, 2021, 07:46:30 PM »
There were roughly 14k muzzleloader elk tags sold in 2019 in WA. Say even just 25% would buy a scope. That's 3500 scopes, made in China for $150, sold here for $350, 30% taxes, a scope manufacturer would be looking at $140 margins. That's nearly 500k for the company that makes one.  The only extra cost in R&D would be the engineer sitting on the computer for a day or two removing the magnification from one of their existing scope bodies. Why wouldn't a company make the leap?
there’s no R&D needed, Utah had the 1x season and vortex has a scope already. Just out of stock.  If it becomes legal they will push them out afterwards.  There are lots of red dots to use.

Current Regs say it is unlawful to have any electrical device or equipment attached to a muzzle loader.  That would include Red dot scopes.
:dunno: wasn’t talking about current regs?  And neither was this thread

Offline Wizekrakr

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Re: Scopes for 2021 WA Muzzleloader season?
« Reply #318 on: January 14, 2021, 08:00:17 PM »
There are 7  scope makers that I can find that once made a 1x scope that muzzle loader hunters used in the states that have legalized it.  Thompson Center, Nikon, Weaver, Sightron, Traditions, Vortex and Nightforce.   All have been discontinued.  Except for Nightforce none sold for more that $149 that I can find.  Finding one online today is next to impossible.  If this rule is approved by the department, I agree it will not make any difference in game harvest or hunter crowding. It will be rare to see a muzzle loader hunter in the field with a scope on their rifle.  And I too doubt that any of those scope companies will ramp up their 1x scope operations just for Washington state.

Offline Wizekrakr

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Re: Scopes for 2021 WA Muzzleloader season?
« Reply #319 on: January 14, 2021, 08:03:51 PM »
There were roughly 14k muzzleloader elk tags sold in 2019 in WA. Say even just 25% would buy a scope. That's 3500 scopes, made in China for $150, sold here for $350, 30% taxes, a scope manufacturer would be looking at $140 margins. That's nearly 500k for the company that makes one.  The only extra cost in R&D would be the engineer sitting on the computer for a day or two removing the magnification from one of their existing scope bodies. Why wouldn't a company make the leap?
there’s no R&D needed, Utah had the 1x season and vortex has a scope already. Just out of stock.  If it becomes legal they will push them out afterwards.  There are lots of red dots to use.
So what indication do you have that the department will do away with the electrical device prohibition that is in THE CURRENT REGS if they decide to approve 1x scopes? The answer is none.
Current Regs say it is unlawful to have any electrical device or equipment attached to a muzzle loader.  That would include Red dot scopes.
:dunno: wasn’t talking about current regs?  And neither was this thread

Offline actionshooter

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Re: Scopes for 2021 WA Muzzleloader season?
« Reply #320 on: January 14, 2021, 09:21:21 PM »
 :rolleyes: 

Offline Limhangerslayer

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Re: Scopes for 2021 WA Muzzleloader season?
« Reply #321 on: January 14, 2021, 10:07:58 PM »
There are 7  scope makers that I can find that once made a 1x scope that muzzle loader hunters used in the states that have legalized it.  Thompson Center, Nikon, Weaver, Sightron, Traditions, Vortex and Nightforce.   All have been discontinued.  Except for Nightforce none sold for more that $149 that I can find.  Finding one online today is next to impossible.  If this rule is approved by the department, I agree it will not make any difference in game harvest or hunter crowding. It will be rare to see a muzzle loader hunter in the field with a scope on their rifle.  And I too doubt that any of those scope companies will ramp up their 1x scope operations just for Washington state.
lmao, check into it.  Vortex built one for Utah when they had a 1x restriction. They haven’t had one for a couple years.  Demand is down they quit making them.  If Washington ok’s it they have another market.  Game on!!?

Offline Tenkara

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Re: Scopes for 2021 WA Muzzleloader season?
« Reply #322 on: January 15, 2021, 01:37:59 PM »
There were roughly 14k muzzleloader elk tags sold in 2019 in WA. Say even just 25% would buy a scope. That's 3500 scopes, made in China for $150, sold here for $350, 30% taxes, a scope manufacturer would be looking at $140 margins. That's nearly 500k for the company that makes one.  The only extra cost in R&D would be the engineer sitting on the computer for a day or two removing the magnification from one of their existing scope bodies. Why wouldn't a company make the leap?
Your numbers way off,  your retail number is double of the suggested retail for the vortex scope.

Offline Tenkara

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Offline Bob33

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Re: Scopes for 2021 WA Muzzleloader season?
« Reply #324 on: January 15, 2021, 01:51:45 PM »
There are 7  scope makers that I can find that once made a 1x scope that muzzle loader hunters used in the states that have legalized it.  Thompson Center, Nikon, Weaver, Sightron, Traditions, Vortex and Nightforce.   All have been discontinued.  Except for Nightforce none sold for more that $149 that I can find.  Finding one online today is next to impossible.  If this rule is approved by the department, I agree it will not make any difference in game harvest or hunter crowding. It will be rare to see a muzzle loader hunter in the field with a scope on their rifle.  And I too doubt that any of those scope companies will ramp up their 1x scope operations just for Washington state.
Interestingly enough, I googled 1x scopes and found a Tradition 1x for $59. I bought it just in case.
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Offline Tenkara

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Re: Scopes for 2021 WA Muzzleloader season?
« Reply #325 on: January 15, 2021, 02:01:39 PM »
There are 7  scope makers that I can find that once made a 1x scope that muzzle loader hunters used in the states that have legalized it.  Thompson Center, Nikon, Weaver, Sightron, Traditions, Vortex and Nightforce.   All have been discontinued.  Except for Nightforce none sold for more that $149 that I can find.  Finding one online today is next to impossible.  If this rule is approved by the department, I agree it will not make any difference in game harvest or hunter crowding. It will be rare to see a muzzle loader hunter in the field with a scope on their rifle.  And I too doubt that any of those scope companies will ramp up their 1x scope operations just for Washington state.
Interestingly enough, I googled 1x scopes and found a Tradition 1x for $59. I bought it just in case.
Thanks Bob,  looks like I got the last one.

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Re: Scopes for 2021 WA Muzzleloader season?
« Reply #326 on: January 15, 2021, 02:09:35 PM »
Bob or tenkara can one or both of you install the scope on your muzzy and shoot for accuracy once you receive it? That would give us all on this thread a bit of data to support or disprove the accuracy claims. Maybe try shooting at extended ranges if you can also.  :tup:

Offline Tenkara

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Re: Scopes for 2021 WA Muzzleloader season?
« Reply #327 on: January 15, 2021, 02:12:31 PM »
Bob or tenkara can one or both of you install the scope on your muzzy and shoot for accuracy once you receive it? That would give us all on this thread a bit of data to support or disprove the accuracy claims. Maybe try shooting at extended ranges if you can also.  :tup:
You bet.

Offline Bob33

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Re: Scopes for 2021 WA Muzzleloader season?
« Reply #328 on: January 15, 2021, 03:18:34 PM »
Bob or tenkara can one or both of you install the scope on your muzzy and shoot for accuracy once you receive it? That would give us all on this thread a bit of data to support or disprove the accuracy claims. Maybe try shooting at extended ranges if you can also.  :tup:
Sure, unless I sell it first for $350.  :chuckle:
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Re: Scopes for 2021 WA Muzzleloader season?
« Reply #329 on: January 15, 2021, 04:03:58 PM »
Bob or tenkara can one or both of you install the scope on your muzzy and shoot for accuracy once you receive it? That would give us all on this thread a bit of data to support or disprove the accuracy claims. Maybe try shooting at extended ranges if you can also.  :tup:
Sure, unless I sell it first for $350.  :chuckle:

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