collapse

Advertisement


Author Topic: Scopes for 2021 WA Muzzleloader season?  (Read 25370 times)

Offline Limhangerslayer

  • Non-Hunting & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 1114
  • Location: Dryside
Re: Scopes for 2021 WA Muzzleloader season?
« Reply #315 on: January 14, 2021, 06:28:36 PM »
There were roughly 14k muzzleloader elk tags sold in 2019 in WA. Say even just 25% would buy a scope. That's 3500 scopes, made in China for $150, sold here for $350, 30% taxes, a scope manufacturer would be looking at $140 margins. That's nearly 500k for the company that makes one.  The only extra cost in R&D would be the engineer sitting on the computer for a day or two removing the magnification from one of their existing scope bodies. Why wouldn't a company make the leap?
thereís no R&D needed, Utah had the 1x season and vortex has a scope already. Just out of stock.  If it becomes legal they will push them out afterwards.  There are lots of red dots to use.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2021, 07:03:37 PM by Limhangerslayer »

Offline Wizekrakr

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Pilgrim
  • *
  • Join Date: Dec 2020
  • Posts: 15
  • Location: Port Orchard
    • Don Davis
  • Groups: NRA
Re: Scopes for 2021 WA Muzzleloader season?
« Reply #316 on: January 14, 2021, 07:40:45 PM »
There were roughly 14k muzzleloader elk tags sold in 2019 in WA. Say even just 25% would buy a scope. That's 3500 scopes, made in China for $150, sold here for $350, 30% taxes, a scope manufacturer would be looking at $140 margins. That's nearly 500k for the company that makes one.  The only extra cost in R&D would be the engineer sitting on the computer for a day or two removing the magnification from one of their existing scope bodies. Why wouldn't a company make the leap?
thereís no R&D needed, Utah had the 1x season and vortex has a scope already. Just out of stock.  If it becomes legal they will push them out afterwards.  There are lots of red dots to use.

Current Regs say it is unlawful to have any electrical device or equipment attached to a muzzle loader.  That would include Red dot scopes.

Offline Limhangerslayer

  • Non-Hunting & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 1114
  • Location: Dryside
Re: Scopes for 2021 WA Muzzleloader season?
« Reply #317 on: January 14, 2021, 07:46:30 PM »
There were roughly 14k muzzleloader elk tags sold in 2019 in WA. Say even just 25% would buy a scope. That's 3500 scopes, made in China for $150, sold here for $350, 30% taxes, a scope manufacturer would be looking at $140 margins. That's nearly 500k for the company that makes one.  The only extra cost in R&D would be the engineer sitting on the computer for a day or two removing the magnification from one of their existing scope bodies. Why wouldn't a company make the leap?
thereís no R&D needed, Utah had the 1x season and vortex has a scope already. Just out of stock.  If it becomes legal they will push them out afterwards.  There are lots of red dots to use.

Current Regs say it is unlawful to have any electrical device or equipment attached to a muzzle loader.  That would include Red dot scopes.
:dunno: wasnít talking about current regs?  And neither was this thread

Offline Wizekrakr

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Pilgrim
  • *
  • Join Date: Dec 2020
  • Posts: 15
  • Location: Port Orchard
    • Don Davis
  • Groups: NRA
Re: Scopes for 2021 WA Muzzleloader season?
« Reply #318 on: January 14, 2021, 08:00:17 PM »
There are 7  scope makers that I can find that once made a 1x scope that muzzle loader hunters used in the states that have legalized it.  Thompson Center, Nikon, Weaver, Sightron, Traditions, Vortex and Nightforce.   All have been discontinued.  Except for Nightforce none sold for more that $149 that I can find.  Finding one online today is next to impossible.  If this rule is approved by the department, I agree it will not make any difference in game harvest or hunter crowding. It will be rare to see a muzzle loader hunter in the field with a scope on their rifle.  And I too doubt that any of those scope companies will ramp up their 1x scope operations just for Washington state.

Offline Wizekrakr

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Pilgrim
  • *
  • Join Date: Dec 2020
  • Posts: 15
  • Location: Port Orchard
    • Don Davis
  • Groups: NRA
Re: Scopes for 2021 WA Muzzleloader season?
« Reply #319 on: January 14, 2021, 08:03:51 PM »
There were roughly 14k muzzleloader elk tags sold in 2019 in WA. Say even just 25% would buy a scope. That's 3500 scopes, made in China for $150, sold here for $350, 30% taxes, a scope manufacturer would be looking at $140 margins. That's nearly 500k for the company that makes one.  The only extra cost in R&D would be the engineer sitting on the computer for a day or two removing the magnification from one of their existing scope bodies. Why wouldn't a company make the leap?
thereís no R&D needed, Utah had the 1x season and vortex has a scope already. Just out of stock.  If it becomes legal they will push them out afterwards.  There are lots of red dots to use.
So what indication do you have that the department will do away with the electrical device prohibition that is in THE CURRENT REGS if they decide to approve 1x scopes? The answer is none.
Current Regs say it is unlawful to have any electrical device or equipment attached to a muzzle loader.  That would include Red dot scopes.
:dunno: wasnít talking about current regs?  And neither was this thread

Offline actionshooter

  • Past Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Old Salt
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2007
  • Posts: 5182
  • Location: Olympia
    • https://www.instagram.com/steve.bell.actionshooter/
Re: Scopes for 2021 WA Muzzleloader season?
« Reply #320 on: January 14, 2021, 09:21:21 PM »
 :rolleyes: 
Rainier Arms Shooting Team
Rainier Arms, Fortis Manufacturing, Timney Triggers
Vortex Optics, Viking Tactics, Sporting Systems Vancouver

Offline Limhangerslayer

  • Non-Hunting & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 1114
  • Location: Dryside
Re: Scopes for 2021 WA Muzzleloader season?
« Reply #321 on: January 14, 2021, 10:07:58 PM »
There are 7  scope makers that I can find that once made a 1x scope that muzzle loader hunters used in the states that have legalized it.  Thompson Center, Nikon, Weaver, Sightron, Traditions, Vortex and Nightforce.   All have been discontinued.  Except for Nightforce none sold for more that $149 that I can find.  Finding one online today is next to impossible.  If this rule is approved by the department, I agree it will not make any difference in game harvest or hunter crowding. It will be rare to see a muzzle loader hunter in the field with a scope on their rifle.  And I too doubt that any of those scope companies will ramp up their 1x scope operations just for Washington state.
lmao, check into it.  Vortex built one for Utah when they had a 1x restriction. They havenít had one for a couple years.  Demand is down they quit making them.  If Washington okís it they have another market.  Game on!!?

Offline Tenkara

  • Non-Hunting & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Longhunter
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2015
  • Posts: 538
Re: Scopes for 2021 WA Muzzleloader season?
« Reply #322 on: January 15, 2021, 01:37:59 PM »
There were roughly 14k muzzleloader elk tags sold in 2019 in WA. Say even just 25% would buy a scope. That's 3500 scopes, made in China for $150, sold here for $350, 30% taxes, a scope manufacturer would be looking at $140 margins. That's nearly 500k for the company that makes one.  The only extra cost in R&D would be the engineer sitting on the computer for a day or two removing the magnification from one of their existing scope bodies. Why wouldn't a company make the leap?
Your numbers way off,  your retail number is double of the suggested retail for the vortex scope.

Offline Tenkara

  • Non-Hunting & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Longhunter
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2015
  • Posts: 538

Offline Bob33

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2009
  • Posts: 19681
  • Groups: SCI, RMEF, NRA
Re: Scopes for 2021 WA Muzzleloader season?
« Reply #324 on: January 15, 2021, 01:51:45 PM »
There are 7  scope makers that I can find that once made a 1x scope that muzzle loader hunters used in the states that have legalized it.  Thompson Center, Nikon, Weaver, Sightron, Traditions, Vortex and Nightforce.   All have been discontinued.  Except for Nightforce none sold for more that $149 that I can find.  Finding one online today is next to impossible.  If this rule is approved by the department, I agree it will not make any difference in game harvest or hunter crowding. It will be rare to see a muzzle loader hunter in the field with a scope on their rifle.  And I too doubt that any of those scope companies will ramp up their 1x scope operations just for Washington state.
Interestingly enough, I googled 1x scopes and found a Tradition 1x for $59. I bought it just in case.
Nature. It's cheaper than therapy.

Offline Tenkara

  • Non-Hunting & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Longhunter
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2015
  • Posts: 538
Re: Scopes for 2021 WA Muzzleloader season?
« Reply #325 on: January 15, 2021, 02:01:39 PM »
There are 7  scope makers that I can find that once made a 1x scope that muzzle loader hunters used in the states that have legalized it.  Thompson Center, Nikon, Weaver, Sightron, Traditions, Vortex and Nightforce.   All have been discontinued.  Except for Nightforce none sold for more that $149 that I can find.  Finding one online today is next to impossible.  If this rule is approved by the department, I agree it will not make any difference in game harvest or hunter crowding. It will be rare to see a muzzle loader hunter in the field with a scope on their rifle.  And I too doubt that any of those scope companies will ramp up their 1x scope operations just for Washington state.
Interestingly enough, I googled 1x scopes and found a Tradition 1x for $59. I bought it just in case.
Thanks Bob,  looks like I got the last one.

Offline BULLBLASTER

  • Chris McCarthy
  • Non-Hunting & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (+13)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: Oct 2008
  • Posts: 7724
  • Volleyfire brigade
Re: Scopes for 2021 WA Muzzleloader season?
« Reply #326 on: January 15, 2021, 02:09:35 PM »
Bob or tenkara can one or both of you install the scope on your muzzy and shoot for accuracy once you receive it? That would give us all on this thread a bit of data to support or disprove the accuracy claims. Maybe try shooting at extended ranges if you can also.  :tup:

Offline Tenkara

  • Non-Hunting & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Longhunter
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2015
  • Posts: 538
Re: Scopes for 2021 WA Muzzleloader season?
« Reply #327 on: January 15, 2021, 02:12:31 PM »
Bob or tenkara can one or both of you install the scope on your muzzy and shoot for accuracy once you receive it? That would give us all on this thread a bit of data to support or disprove the accuracy claims. Maybe try shooting at extended ranges if you can also.  :tup:
You bet.

Offline Bob33

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2009
  • Posts: 19681
  • Groups: SCI, RMEF, NRA
Re: Scopes for 2021 WA Muzzleloader season?
« Reply #328 on: January 15, 2021, 03:18:34 PM »
Bob or tenkara can one or both of you install the scope on your muzzy and shoot for accuracy once you receive it? That would give us all on this thread a bit of data to support or disprove the accuracy claims. Maybe try shooting at extended ranges if you can also.  :tup:
Sure, unless I sell it first for $350.  :chuckle:
Nature. It's cheaper than therapy.

Offline Dan-o

  • Past Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (+16)
  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2010
  • Posts: 12560
Re: Scopes for 2021 WA Muzzleloader season?
« Reply #329 on: January 15, 2021, 04:03:58 PM »
Bob or tenkara can one or both of you install the scope on your muzzy and shoot for accuracy once you receive it? That would give us all on this thread a bit of data to support or disprove the accuracy claims. Maybe try shooting at extended ranges if you can also.  :tup:
Sure, unless I sell it first for $350.  :chuckle:

I'll take it!!!!!!
Member:   Yakstrakgutp (or whatever we are)
I love the BFRO!!!
I wonder how many people will touch their nose to their screen trying to read this...

 


* Advertisement

* Recent Topics

Knife Sets by Stein
[Today at 11:26:25 AM]


Washington Mule Deer by Rainier10
[Today at 11:10:29 AM]


MEC 20 and 12 650 presses and components. Reload time! by GWP
[Today at 10:58:29 AM]


Well loser lounge for me.... by jstone
[Today at 10:57:23 AM]


Spring bear, 2021, DNRY by Troutpounder
[Today at 10:45:35 AM]


FS: 6mm Creedmoor Ammo by ellensburgpo
[Today at 10:43:06 AM]


Smith recommendation by Come Get Some
[Today at 10:42:32 AM]


Utah !!! by luvmystang67
[Today at 10:36:44 AM]


Post The Ammo/Reloading Supplies You Find In Stock Here! by Mulie87
[Today at 10:21:39 AM]


For sale , '90-92 YJ jeep wrangler by MountainWalk
[Today at 10:12:45 AM]


Best hunting preserves wa/or? by carpsniperg2
[Today at 10:09:18 AM]


What is your favorite .22?!!! by scotsman
[Today at 09:59:15 AM]


Kokanee Reports by salt n sage90
[Today at 09:51:14 AM]


WTT Varget for ?? by Wetwoodshunter
[Today at 09:24:11 AM]


WTT 6.5 Creed 140's for 147's by Mtnwalker
[Today at 09:08:31 AM]


Best All Around Carry Pistol for Versatile Use by konradcountry
[Today at 08:56:00 AM]


Arizona Elk and Antelope Draw by ELKBURGER
[Today at 08:51:32 AM]


Second run by medic6
[Today at 08:23:44 AM]


FS: Rem 700, AR-15 and Stevens 311C by robescc
[Today at 07:53:02 AM]


Starting a 501 C 3 by whacker1
[Today at 07:51:59 AM]