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Author Topic: The whitetails cometh....  (Read 4920 times)

Offline Alchase

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Re: The whitetails cometh....
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2021, 06:33:05 PM »
Whitetails are more aggressive and territorial than MD.  While there range can does overlap in certain areas, they do not get along and over time MD will get pushed out and leave.  That is why Central WA has had an any buck tag for WT for years. 

Texas Mule deer would disagree with you.

I also believed this before moving to Oklahoma. After reading up on Texas Muleys they have had no problem competing with whitetails. There is no winter range or migration there, yet you can find both in the same Game Units.
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Offline buckfvr

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Re: The whitetails cometh....
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2021, 06:44:56 PM »
I think it has more to do with crop depredation (any whitetail buck) than mule conflict.  Thats an old line that has been around as long as I can remember but really hasnt been thought to be significant.  Also, summer temps in central wa make the threat of blue tongue even worse than it is in the Blues or the northeast.  Yes we know they are there but not in great numbers that habitat would suggest.

Offline Jonathan_S

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Re: The whitetails cometh....
« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2021, 08:46:03 AM »
Whitetails are more aggressive and territorial than MD.  While there range can does overlap in certain areas, they do not get along and over time MD will get pushed out and leave.  That is why Central WA has had an any buck tag for WT for years. 

Texas Mule deer would disagree with you.

I also believed this before moving to Oklahoma. After reading up on Texas Muleys they have had no problem competing with whitetails. There is no winter range or migration there, yet you can find both in the same Game Units.

 :yeah: also there would have to be mule deer in some of the 300 series units for me to care about them  :dunno:
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Offline elkboy

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Re: The whitetails cometh....
« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2021, 08:53:44 AM »
Something else to consider is that we have altered the landscape in favor of whitetails, with forest patches becoming denser due to fire suppression and irrigated or otherwise productive farm fields producing higher quality forage that whitetails need. A good example is where I live- the Palouse- which was historically shrub steppe and ponderosa woodland, and was mule deer habitat. Now, with denser forest patches and lots of garbanzo beans and winter wheat, it is known more for white-tailed deer.

Offline DOUBLELUNG

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Re: The whitetails cometh....
« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2021, 01:45:27 PM »
Something else to consider is that we have altered the landscape in favor of whitetails, with forest patches becoming denser due to fire suppression and irrigated or otherwise productive farm fields producing higher quality forage that whitetails need. A good example is where I live- the Palouse- which was historically shrub steppe and ponderosa woodland, and was mule deer habitat. Now, with denser forest patches and lots of garbanzo beans and winter wheat, it is known more for white-tailed deer.
I agree that human effects are a bigger factor in changes in mule deer and whitetail abundance than direct competition between the two species.  In addition to the habitat changes, when both species are hunted under common general seasons outside the rut, mule deer are harvested at a higher rate than whitetails.

The Black Hills of Wyoming and South Dakota offer an interesting situation where the opposite is true.  The BHNF is managed for ponderosa pine very similar to private industrial forest lands with primarily even-age management and seed tree clearcuts being the norm.  This has opened up the habitat and favored mule deer over whitetails, it is one of the few public land areas where both species overlap that mule deer abundance has increased and whitetails declined.
As long as we have the habitat, we can argue forever about who gets to kill what and when.  No habitat = no game.

Offline Karl Blanchard

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Re: The whitetails cometh....
« Reply #20 on: January 18, 2021, 02:13:58 PM »
Whitetails are more aggressive and territorial than MD.  While there range can does overlap in certain areas, they do not get along and over time MD will get pushed out and leave.  That is why Central WA has had an any buck tag for WT for years.
this isn't entirely accurate. 300 series guys don't have a whitetail season at all except 373, 379,  and 381.
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Offline elkboy

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Re: The whitetails cometh....
« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2021, 02:34:47 PM »
Something else to consider is that we have altered the landscape in favor of whitetails, with forest patches becoming denser due to fire suppression and irrigated or otherwise productive farm fields producing higher quality forage that whitetails need. A good example is where I live- the Palouse- which was historically shrub steppe and ponderosa woodland, and was mule deer habitat. Now, with denser forest patches and lots of garbanzo beans and winter wheat, it is known more for white-tailed deer.
I agree that human effects are a bigger factor in changes in mule deer and whitetail abundance than direct competition between the two species.  In addition to the habitat changes, when both species are hunted under common general seasons outside the rut, mule deer are harvested at a higher rate than whitetails.

The Black Hills of Wyoming and South Dakota offer an interesting situation where the opposite is true.  The BHNF is managed for ponderosa pine very similar to private industrial forest lands with primarily even-age management and seed tree clearcuts being the norm.  This has opened up the habitat and favored mule deer over whitetails, it is one of the few public land areas where both species overlap that mule deer abundance has increased and whitetails declined.

Very cool example, Doublelung.  I think that is another example of why restoring open-structured ponderosa pine is the way to go in places like the east Cascades.  Reminds me also of the irregular thinning and prescribed fire that WDFW did in the Sinlahekin Valley to help mule deer and bighorn sheep.     

Offline gutsnthegrass

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Re: The whitetails cometh....
« Reply #22 on: January 20, 2021, 08:21:36 AM »
One of the guys in camp this year saw a whitetail doe up on Stormy mt. in the Entiat this last season.  I shot a small buck down low in the Entiat, but have never seen them as high a Stormy.

Offline DOUBLELUNG

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Re: The whitetails cometh....
« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2021, 05:00:29 PM »
One of the guys in camp this year saw a whitetail doe up on Stormy mt. in the Entiat this last season.  I shot a small buck down low in the Entiat, but have never seen them as high a Stormy.
A coworker saw one there also, south side of Stormy?
As long as we have the habitat, we can argue forever about who gets to kill what and when.  No habitat = no game.

 


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