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Author Topic: Blues Elk Substantial Decline and the Root Cause  (Read 4211 times)

Offline idahohuntr

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Re: Blues Elk Substantial Decline and the Root Cause
« Reply #30 on: May 14, 2021, 10:24:41 AM »
One of the few things the state might have some ability to manage is bears.  All other causes, not so much.  Given the extraordinary number of bears, the well documented effect of bears on calves, and the issue of low calf recruitment it's just mind numbing we dont have spring general seasons...with a 2 bear limit.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood..." - TR

Offline Pathfinder101

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Re: Blues Elk Substantial Decline and the Root Cause
« Reply #31 on: May 14, 2021, 11:36:40 AM »
 :yeah:  That seems like a useful solution. 
Does it "fix" the problem?
 No. 
Will it help?
 You bet. 
Every dead mature adult bear will = x number of elk calves that don't get eaten... :twocents:
Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes.  That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

Offline Caseyd

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Re: Blues Elk Substantial Decline and the Root Cause
« Reply #32 on: May 14, 2021, 12:44:15 PM »
Yeah, really nice 6x8.  It was a great hunt but not easy.

Good to hear.  I'm a little nervous to draw a tag right now.  Been trying for 20 years...

I switched to points 3 years back. Couldnít stand the thought of actually drawing

Offline trophyhunt

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Re: Blues Elk Substantial Decline and the Root Cause
« Reply #33 on: May 14, 2021, 12:49:51 PM »
Yeah, really nice 6x8.  It was a great hunt but not easy.

Good to hear.  I'm a little nervous to draw a tag right now.  Been trying for 20 years...

I switched to points 3 years back. Couldnít stand the thought of actually drawing
I think I quit putting in about 3 years ago as well, a dream of drawing turned into a nigh mare of utter failure.
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Offline Gettin Birdie

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Re: Blues Elk Substantial Decline and the Root Cause
« Reply #34 on: May 14, 2021, 02:06:18 PM »
My dad and I drew the muzzy deer hunt in Dayton area in 2017 I think.  Anyways, we camped at a popular place starts with a p I believe...only one other hunter stayed there, he was from Selah and we only saw one other hunter who was from the Westside (25 tags).  The point of that, is that there wasn't much pressure at all and I saw more elk than deer, but not by much, could have shot a blue mountain unicorn if the season was a week later.  Saw an ok amount of elk, which isn't saying much, but the deer were damn near nonexistent, ended up getting permission on a farm lower down and we shot our deer there.  Here is the big takeaway though, the guy in our camp saw two cougars after cow calling and killed one of them.  I was on a nearby piece of broughton land?  a big section of nice land, only saw a couple does and a small spike.  Anyways, I was going in and out over some fingers and crested this one, when I heard a doe sounding the alarm, barking, except she was running towards me, eventually she saw me and went uphill into the draw.  I thought damn, another hunter must be out here, but then shortly after saw a cougar that was following her, I only had my muzzy and it was about 200 yards away or I would have blasted it.  It saw me and slowly slunk away.  So, that's three cougars (verified by sight) within a square mile of land.  Cougars are a huge problem, along with bear and now wolf.  I have more to post later, but some of it involves the district bio in Clarkston, I won't name names, but dude is a sleezeball. 

Offline trophyhunt

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Re: Blues Elk Substantial Decline and the Root Cause
« Reply #35 on: May 14, 2021, 02:24:09 PM »
What baffles me is Iíve spring bear hunted the blues 5-6 times, plus helped people about the same amount. Glassed miles and miles of country and Iíve never seen a cat! Crap ton of bears and one wolf but no cougars!! I know they are a problem, but Iím just baffled why I havenít seen one yet!  Now that I say this, I bet I see one next week when I head down for a few days!! Lol
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Offline emac

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Re: Blues Elk Substantial Decline and the Root Cause
« Reply #36 on: May 14, 2021, 03:46:20 PM »
Wik?? He is a public servant so you can name names

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Offline Pathfinder101

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Re: Blues Elk Substantial Decline and the Root Cause
« Reply #37 on: May 14, 2021, 03:50:57 PM »
What baffles me is Iíve spring bear hunted the blues 5-6 times, plus helped people about the same amount. Glassed miles and miles of country and Iíve never seen a cat! Crap ton of bears and one wolf but no cougars!! I know they are a problem, but Iím just baffled why I havenít seen one yet!  Now that I say this, I bet I see one next week when I head down for a few days!! Lol

I haven't seen one in the flesh either, but anyone with a trail camera in the Blues will tell you that there are too many...
Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes.  That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

Offline Flaming Antler Outdoors

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Re: Blues Elk Substantial Decline and the Root Cause
« Reply #38 on: May 15, 2021, 09:10:43 AM »
The umatilla natives aren't the only tribe that has rights to slaughter the herd with no accountability either. The Nez Perce  come from Idaho and shoot from trucks and shine bulls . I've seen it first hand

I was up there several years ago ran into a 2 Umatilla Tribal Members who were working on their 3rd bull tag.  The two bulls that were down were 320 type bulls. Sounded like they got to hunt "elders" tags for them.  This was just after the big bull Dan Agnew killed.  I mention this because outside of predator issue I would be curious as to how many actual tags were issued for Dayton area each year between tribes and non tribal plus poaching plus predator/wolves introduction and......uh never mind if figured out why there isn't any elk.  Oregon's Wenaha and Mt. Emily are turning into the same. 
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Offline nwwanderer

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Re: Blues Elk Substantial Decline and the Root Cause
« Reply #39 on: May 15, 2021, 12:42:09 PM »
Have on several occasions, spotted more bears than deer in 154.  Please support OTC spring bear tags for the blue mountains.

Offline Gettin Birdie

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Re: Blues Elk Substantial Decline and the Root Cause
« Reply #40 on: May 15, 2021, 01:22:43 PM »
So, I moved to Clarkston a few years back and it was the year they created the new 'George Creek Hunt' for cow elk.  I did some research of the area and unit and it seemed like there was a decent harvest rate in the area, it's part of 181 I believe - Almota.  I used up three points and figured what the hell, was probably moving the next year anyways out of state.  I hit and got drawn on the muzzy only tag there, it was a new area there wasn't much info out on it yet.  Due to this and me being new to the area I asked Paul Wik if he could give me some information about the area, etc. etc.  He was so "busy" that I had to schedule a meeting with him, which I did for a week later, leaving me with an hour before work.  I showed up at the given time, walked by his office and stuck my head in, he was b.s.ing with someone and just acted like he didn't see me or recognize me, I indicated I'd just wait outside his office.  I sat out there for twenty minutes listening to them just b.s. and eventually figured it out that this guy was a *censored* and to just leave.  What they were discussing was interesting though.  It was right after there was a meeting about the elk management in the blues, in dayton I believe, with anyone from the public welcome to show up.  People as per expected showed up and voiced what they saw as the problems and asked what was going to be done about it... Cougar, bear and wolf wrecking the elk population there, as the locals and others had noticed.  Paul and his cohort were just badmouthing all of these individuals and acting as if their opinions didn't matter or were just stupid and that they were equally stupid.  Pissed me off to hear that crap, part of why I left.  On top of that, he said something along the lines of - These people just don't understand, our governor (Inslee) is a cougar/wolf lover and there are other oppositions from other wildlife groups, individuals, etc.  He was basically, kowtowing to all the other groups except the hunters and fisherman who he is supposed to represent.  If he had any balls, he'd manage things the way they are meant to be instead of just serving as a sychophant for inslee and crew and raise the quota, etc. in the blues for cougar.  Left me utterly disgusted, so I just left.  Saw the truth that day though.  Later on, the hunt descriptions finally come out and the hunt I chose was literally just to be used to push the elk out of the george creek area and into the private farms/ranches surrounding it so that they could kill them with landowner tags.  They essentially were trying to get rid of the elk entirely in that area for the landowners.  And, not one surrounding landowner would let me on, as they all had tags.  This was verified with other individuals as to why this hunt was made, I was livid, three points spent on a useless F****** tag, all to appease landowners and that's it, while exterminating a small elk population.  I had scouted quite a bit beforehand since I got no info from ol pauly boy.  Took a couple deer outta there, but elk was a waste.  So, in the end, the district bio there doesn't give two craps about any of us hunters.  Horn hunting seasons/areas got shut down around there as well, but guess what big horn hunter was out in a copter harassing the elk (counts?) knowing where they'd drop them horns and stressing them out, yep good ol pauly.  I worked out of that office, and was hoping to work there long term, peaced out of there after that, worked at other offices in the state as well, saw my fair share of crap, left me having no hope for WA.  Sad, these people don't represent what it is meant to, managing fish and game.  Literally worked with young people who were anti-gun and anti-hunting, these people will eventually be taking over management roles, young woke college morons.  You like butterflies, cool, go work for greenpeace or some enviro org.  The muley population there has been dwindling as well, terribly.  Anyways, good luck to all on this issue, just remember, don't trust the district bio, question everyone no matter how vested they seem and keep on him/others when pushing for change.  I peaced when I didn't even get an interview for a job I was well qualified for and a lower pay, the guy has a habit of hiring his buddies, I could have sued, have to interview due to agreements with permanents, but just said forget it.  Anyways, sorry for the long story, but working on the inside left me with different insight.       

Offline Gettin Birdie

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Re: Blues Elk Substantial Decline and the Root Cause
« Reply #41 on: May 15, 2021, 01:25:11 PM »
Oh, and I've killed a bear outta there and seen plenty - it was at one point the highest density per square mile in the state around dayton/tucannon area.  Also, wolves howling on the eastside of the blues while hunting blue mountain unicorns, shut the elk up quick.  Trifecta of problems. 

Offline jstone

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Re: Blues Elk Substantial Decline and the Root Cause
« Reply #42 on: May 15, 2021, 01:27:51 PM »
Lots of people who work for this state are not qualified to do what they do. Either they lied their way in or they are buddies. I have the same at my job. They call it Talent. I call it BS. Inefficient.!!!

Offline emac

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Re: Blues Elk Substantial Decline and the Root Cause
« Reply #43 on: May 15, 2021, 05:34:02 PM »
The nez peirce are way worse than the umatilla tribe.  They slaughter the elk in the lick creek tucannon mountain view and wenha units.  No tags no limits.  The like to shoot cows hang em near the roads so there sent is there during the rut and shoot the bulls when they come in.  Dont take an ounce of meat of the cows just use them as bait.  I have witnessed this firsthand and have talked to numerous of them that have told me this is there tactic.

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Offline Timberstalker

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Re: Blues Elk Substantial Decline and the Root Cause
« Reply #44 on: May 15, 2021, 06:35:37 PM »
Absolutely they do this. I watched them kill a bull and 5 cows in 2019.  I was a mile away and watched them jump out of their Toyota and open up.  I was waiting for the arrows to fly, but no dice.
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