Free: Contests & Raffles.
Ill admit I haven't read through this whole thread but at face value, my opinion, just another way to do away with "game animals", short and sweet, "if there are no animals to hunt (elk, deer, moose etc, any animals you eat) and "nature" is taking care of the balance, then why do you all need these guns". Something to ponder. Wolves, cougars, predators in general, even with growing human population and expansion, they want more predators? Once again, something to ponder.
I kind of went off on the predator thing hits a nerve every time! I do think helping the jaguars recover would be great. I was just agreeing that we actually need a lot of these predators near and around the liberal areas to get some reasonable controls back. Jaguars in those areas mentioned would be great.
Quote from: bigmacc on June 17, 2021, 03:40:32 PMIll admit I haven't read through this whole thread but at face value, my opinion, just another way to do away with "game animals", short and sweet, "if there are no animals to hunt (elk, deer, moose etc, any animals you eat) and "nature" is taking care of the balance, then why do you all need these guns". Something to ponder. Wolves, cougars, predators in general, even with growing human population and expansion, they want more predators? Once again, something to ponder. I think this is a true agenda item of many extreme groups constantly pushing more predators into the landscape. It seemed too much like a conspiracy theory to me for a while but watching their actions I have come to believe this is a Real agenda item of these groups. I think it would be super cool to have jaguars in the southwest but have same concerns already mentioned. It was interesting to see these groups “support” caribou in north Idaho and Washington when they felt like they could use it to close vast areas to logging and snowmobiles etc etc. I don’t think it worked as well as hoped and as soon as we got wolves they basically screwed the the caribou in favor of more and more wolves. It appears they have little regard for the actual species but just what that species can do for their bigger agenda. Wolves and the lawsuits we dealt with and they kept moving the population numbers higher and higher no population number was enough. This all convinced me they are trying to break the North American wildlife model with predators and basically eliminating any surplus ungulates to hunt. I’m ok with wolves in Idaho it’s been interesting and fun to have another animal to hunt and trap and managed at the RIGHT level I don’t mind having them. My first reaction is to get super excited when I see something about re-introducing Jaguar. I would love to see one in the wild. Better yet would to be able to chase one with hounds and not to shoot it but just catch one would be amazing. But then I get nervous when I think about how wolves and grizzlies have been handled. They just want MORE never management. One of there favorite tricks is to use re introduction of endangered species is to shut down vast areas to almost any use. There is a lot of history with large predator reintroduction that should make any hunter and conservationist nervous.
I think melanistic mt lion is a myth."Black Panther" just means a black or nearly black cat, but isn't a species.The only species of cat that can be black is Jaguars and Leopards.
Mountain lions do not have the Melanistic gene.No such thing as a black mountain lion.Jaguars and leopards do.What could possibly go wrong with reintroducing a apex predator 2-3 times the weight of a cougar, into a habitat owned by cougars and coyotes for a a hundred years?We could start with downtown San Francisco
Quote from: Alchase on July 17, 2021, 07:01:16 PMMountain lions do not have the Melanistic gene.No such thing as a black mountain lion.Jaguars and leopards do.What could possibly go wrong with reintroducing a apex predator 2-3 times the weight of a cougar, into a habitat owned by cougars and coyotes for a a hundred years?We could start with downtown San Francisco Melanism is a genetic mutation. I see no reason why cougars are precluded from having a mutated gene.Last year I saw a cougar cross the road. Got a pretty good look at it and it sure looked black to me. I've seen quite a few and I never saw anything like it. Another person said they saw a black cougar in the same area.I wish I had a picture but it was there and then gone.
Quote from: Humptulips on July 17, 2021, 07:20:26 PMQuote from: Alchase on July 17, 2021, 07:01:16 PMMountain lions do not have the Melanistic gene.No such thing as a black mountain lion.Jaguars and leopards do.What could possibly go wrong with reintroducing a apex predator 2-3 times the weight of a cougar, into a habitat owned by cougars and coyotes for a a hundred years?We could start with downtown San Francisco Melanism is a genetic mutation. I see no reason why cougars are precluded from having a mutated gene.Last year I saw a cougar cross the road. Got a pretty good look at it and it sure looked black to me. I've seen quite a few and I never saw anything like it. Another person said they saw a black cougar in the same area.I wish I had a picture but it was there and then gone.“ Mammals with this mutation are known as melanistic. In big cats, black panthers are actually jaguars or leopards. If you look closely enough, or have enough bright light, you can see spots amongst the dark fur. There has never been a confirmed or documented case of a melanistic mountain lion in the United States. Mistaken identities may also occur with the cougar's smaller relative, the bobcat. Bobcats can be melanistic too, but this is extremely rare with only 12 reported sightings across all of North America. ”https://emammal.si.edu/
I used to think it was cool to see a wolf. That changed sometime back in the 80s. I’d just assume not repeat.
Quote from: LDennis24 on June 15, 2021, 03:34:51 PMQuote from: ducks4days on June 15, 2021, 02:32:25 PMWhy do people have such a *censored* for reintroducing species which have been extirpated from places? How would this population survive without a continuously connected genetic group on the landscape? How would they fare competing with native predators such as wolves, cougars, and bears? Do they have the genetic memory to target wild prey and not focus on livestock?Jaguars thrive in Central and South America, reintroducing them in the continental US would do a disservice both to the jaguars and to the continental US.Rumor has it bigfoot was supposed manage the wolf population and keep them in check, but Dan-o failed to get the communication across and now wolves are all over I feel like you don't fully understand what kind of environment jaguars live in. And maybe you didn't read the whole article. They clearly would not be reintroducing them into areas that have wolves as that is not the right environment for them. Maybe they will cross paths with red wolves, and Arizona wolves, maybe not. What the article doesnt mention is that there is already a population of jaguars in the U.S. around the states bordering the gulf. People see them every so often. They have always been there. They would probably have ZERO problems establishing in area's like South Texas and Louisiana, Mississippi etc. All this whiny ranting over liberals wanting predators and blah blah blah about competing with other predators. Read a little more about it. They would most likely live where literally NO wolves live. Except for Arizona where jaguars are already found living in the same areas as wolves. There are very few cougars left in the South from the historical extermination attempts and bears are few in the South as well. If you consider yourself a true sportsman then you shouldn't mind helping out a species of animal that is endangered and giving up some areas for their benefit. I still agree with hound hunting cougars and bears. I agree with hunting wolves. I don't agree with exterminating an entire species from an area. Not helping them is a disservice to conservation which is what we as hunters should stand for. If your just into killing stuff with a gun go to a ranch somewhere and pay to shoot an ear tagged animal. I for one enjoy wildlife and the experience of seeing them in the wild acting naturally. Don't be greedy...I am 100% against it, and here is why:Specifically, you don't understand the lying dirtbags behind reintroduction.Remember wolves........ 15o wolves and 15 breeding pairs.Oh wait.... we meant 300 wolves and 30 breeding pairs.Oh wait..... We meant more than that, and will continually sue you for years while delaying delisting.If wolf introduction taught me anything, it's that you can count on the reintro folks to lie like nobody's business.I am not anti-wolf, but I am 100% against these dirtbags.
Quote from: ducks4days on June 15, 2021, 02:32:25 PMWhy do people have such a *censored* for reintroducing species which have been extirpated from places? How would this population survive without a continuously connected genetic group on the landscape? How would they fare competing with native predators such as wolves, cougars, and bears? Do they have the genetic memory to target wild prey and not focus on livestock?Jaguars thrive in Central and South America, reintroducing them in the continental US would do a disservice both to the jaguars and to the continental US.Rumor has it bigfoot was supposed manage the wolf population and keep them in check, but Dan-o failed to get the communication across and now wolves are all over I feel like you don't fully understand what kind of environment jaguars live in. And maybe you didn't read the whole article. They clearly would not be reintroducing them into areas that have wolves as that is not the right environment for them. Maybe they will cross paths with red wolves, and Arizona wolves, maybe not. What the article doesnt mention is that there is already a population of jaguars in the U.S. around the states bordering the gulf. People see them every so often. They have always been there. They would probably have ZERO problems establishing in area's like South Texas and Louisiana, Mississippi etc. All this whiny ranting over liberals wanting predators and blah blah blah about competing with other predators. Read a little more about it. They would most likely live where literally NO wolves live. Except for Arizona where jaguars are already found living in the same areas as wolves. There are very few cougars left in the South from the historical extermination attempts and bears are few in the South as well. If you consider yourself a true sportsman then you shouldn't mind helping out a species of animal that is endangered and giving up some areas for their benefit. I still agree with hound hunting cougars and bears. I agree with hunting wolves. I don't agree with exterminating an entire species from an area. Not helping them is a disservice to conservation which is what we as hunters should stand for. If your just into killing stuff with a gun go to a ranch somewhere and pay to shoot an ear tagged animal. I for one enjoy wildlife and the experience of seeing them in the wild acting naturally. Don't be greedy...
Why do people have such a *censored* for reintroducing species which have been extirpated from places? How would this population survive without a continuously connected genetic group on the landscape? How would they fare competing with native predators such as wolves, cougars, and bears? Do they have the genetic memory to target wild prey and not focus on livestock?Jaguars thrive in Central and South America, reintroducing them in the continental US would do a disservice both to the jaguars and to the continental US.
Quote from: Dan-o on June 15, 2021, 09:46:12 PMQuote from: LDennis24 on June 15, 2021, 03:34:51 PMQuote from: ducks4days on June 15, 2021, 02:32:25 PMWhy do people have such a *censored* for reintroducing species which have been extirpated from places? How would this population survive without a continuously connected genetic group on the landscape? How would they fare competing with native predators such as wolves, cougars, and bears? Do they have the genetic memory to target wild prey and not focus on livestock?Jaguars thrive in Central and South America, reintroducing them in the continental US would do a disservice both to the jaguars and to the continental US.Rumor has it bigfoot was supposed manage the wolf population and keep them in check, but Dan-o failed to get the communication across and now wolves are all over I feel like you don't fully understand what kind of environment jaguars live in. And maybe you didn't read the whole article. They clearly would not be reintroducing them into areas that have wolves as that is not the right environment for them. Maybe they will cross paths with red wolves, and Arizona wolves, maybe not. What the article doesnt mention is that there is already a population of jaguars in the U.S. around the states bordering the gulf. People see them every so often. They have always been there. They would probably have ZERO problems establishing in area's like South Texas and Louisiana, Mississippi etc. All this whiny ranting over liberals wanting predators and blah blah blah about competing with other predators. Read a little more about it. They would most likely live where literally NO wolves live. Except for Arizona where jaguars are already found living in the same areas as wolves. There are very few cougars left in the South from the historical extermination attempts and bears are few in the South as well. If you consider yourself a true sportsman then you shouldn't mind helping out a species of animal that is endangered and giving up some areas for their benefit. I still agree with hound hunting cougars and bears. I agree with hunting wolves. I don't agree with exterminating an entire species from an area. Not helping them is a disservice to conservation which is what we as hunters should stand for. If your just into killing stuff with a gun go to a ranch somewhere and pay to shoot an ear tagged animal. I for one enjoy wildlife and the experience of seeing them in the wild acting naturally. Don't be greedy...I am 100% against it, and here is why:Specifically, you don't understand the lying dirtbags behind reintroduction.Remember wolves........ 15o wolves and 15 breeding pairs.Oh wait.... we meant 300 wolves and 30 breeding pairs.Oh wait..... We meant more than that, and will continually sue you for years while delaying delisting.If wolf introduction taught me anything, it's that you can count on the reintro folks to lie like nobody's business.I am not anti-wolf, but I am 100% against these dirtbags.