Year round Bull Elk season

[hunter399]

I always try to come back to "operation cody" and how many animals are getting taken out of season by non natives and that is just what one game warden wrote about.  How many others were taken that nobody knows about.

The OP talks about elk in the back of trucks that are visible.  Why are they visible?  Because it is their right to harvest them and take them home.  The people in operation cody didn't have those rights.  They didn't get caulk because they had an elk in the back of their truck in the drive thru at McDonald's.  They did it so nobody would see them but they still did it.

People are upset at the tribal harvest because they can see it.  I assure you there is just as much overharvest by non natives that you don't see.

I Agree with your above statement 100%
I don't really care how many Elk a year any native harvest.
I guess my end goal would be harvest reporting,enforcement of bag limits,and a little more tribes working with WDFW to come up with management plans that can work for the tribe and the greater good of deer and elk herds.
Of course any enforcement of anything would be done by there own people.

[ctwiggs1]

The WHITE man gave them those rights.... 

Yes, they can shoot bulls year around.

"They" didn't give "them" anything. 

It was contractually agreed upon in a treaty between two nations.  That treaty is enforced and honored (on the USA end of things) by our Constitution; the supreme law of the land. 

To the OPs point, it is what it is.  The Colockum and Yakima herds are primary targets for local natives.  If you don't want to share that with them then you just need to hunt elsewhere. 

Heck, if someone told me I could shoot an extra elk every year, I wouldn't hesitate.  Our elk is usually gone by May. 

[HillHound]

like I always say and I don’t think anybody could argue with me it’s pretty hard to manage a hen house if the wolves are kept out but the fox is let in. I really wish there was a way the tribes and wdfw could actually work together and actually get harvest numbers from both groups and actually make commonsense rules and regulations for both groups to sustain the population, again for both groups. But then there are those that believe the resource will be gone eventually anyway so why not take as much as you possibly can now, after all it is their right.

[trophyhunt]

So you guys that post support for the natives (wrongs)rights, and say you don’t care, what is your opinion on ZERO limits, how about selling meat for jerky (illegal even by tribal law), and single members killing dozens of bulls each year to supply that business?  Does your support still make you feel warm and fuzzy inside??  Most of us are aware that it’s just a few bad apples on both sides, but c’mon man! 

[ctwiggs1]

So you guys that post support for the natives (wrongs)rights, and say you don’t care, what is your opinion on ZERO limits, how about selling meat for jerky (illegal even by tribal law), and single members killing dozens of bulls each year to supply that business?  Does your support still make you feel warm and fuzzy inside??  Most of us are aware that it’s just a few bad apples on both sides, but c’mon man!

I'm totally with you Jerry.  If they're violating the treaty or if they're violating their own take laws, some sort of consequence should be in order.  I don't expect that I'd be able to convince the tribes to enforce their laws better by trashing talking on the internet though.

My standing as an American citizen supercedes  (marginally) my status as a hunter.  The US Constitution and all it supports are the fundamental doctrine of my allegiance to my nation.  I've literally taken an oath to put my life on the line to defend that document.  That document says that the treaties (even if they weren't written very well) are law.  So that's it.  They're law.

[Rainier10]

I always try to come back to "operation cody" and how many animals are getting taken out of season by non natives and that is just what one game warden wrote about.  How many others were taken that nobody knows about.

The OP talks about elk in the back of trucks that are visible.  Why are they visible?  Because it is their right to harvest them and take them home.  The people in operation cody didn't have those rights.  They didn't get caulk because they had an elk in the back of their truck in the drive thru at McDonald's.  They did it so nobody would see them but they still did it.

People are upset at the tribal harvest because they can see it.  I assure you there is just as much overharvest by non natives that you don't see.

I Agree with your above statement 100%
I don't really care how many Elk a year any native harvest.
I guess my end goal would be harvest reporting,enforcement of bag limits,and a little more tribes working with WDFW to come up with management plans that can work for the tribe and the greater good of deer and elk herds.
Of course any enforcement of anything would be done by there own people.

I'm right there with you man.

[Skyvalhunter]

Wishful thinking

[Rainier10]

So you guys that post support for the natives (wrongs)rights, and say you don’t care, what is your opinion on ZERO limits, how about selling meat for jerky (illegal even by tribal law), and single members killing dozens of bulls each year to supply that business?  Does your support still make you feel warm and fuzzy inside??  Most of us are aware that it’s just a few bad apples on both sides, but c’mon man!

I am assuming you are speaking to me here on some of above.

I do support their rights.  They had a ton taken away and were given very little in return.  Our forefathers screwed them and we should at least honor what they were granted in exchange for everything they gave up.  Renegotiate if you want but don't just tear it up and say that doesn't apply anymore.

I never said I don't care and I am not sure anyone who has replied says they don't care about what is seen as abuse of those rights.
Edit: I found the post where hunter399 says he doesn't care how many they harvest followed by he wants reporting of harvest, enforcement of bag limits and for them to work with WDFW to manage the herds.

I am not happy about zero limits for some but I am not sure there is anything I can do about that. It is kind of like being pissed off the sun comes up every day in the east.  I can wish it would come up in the west but it just isn't going to happen so I can be pissed off about it or move on to what I can control.

Using the elk to sell jerky is frustrating.  I don't know that it is illegal by tribal law but if it is then it is.  Speeding is illegal and I do it all the time.  Not wearing a seatbelt is illegal and I do it all the time.  I would be willing to be that you do or have done something illegal before and paid absolutely consequences for your illegal behavior. It happens, we all do it on some level.

One member killing dozens of bulls is frustrating. Ever hear of the "kill em all boys"?  They shot a ton of deer, elk, bears, bobcats, all kinds of wildlife out of season and using illegal hunting methods greatly impacting the population and taking away opportunity from legal hunters.  I know you have read operation cody, all of those cases were non natives taking game outside normal seasons and way above legal limits.  It happens on both sides.

"Warm and fuzzy"?  I don't believe anyone in this thread said they feel "warm and fuzzy" about what is going on with the native harvest or the non native harvest.

[Stein]

They have rights to half the animals.  How they go about that is their business, they make their rules.  Same with crab, a few dudes pull in their entire half share.  It doesn't really matter how I feel about that.

I would also like to see them work with WDFW to manage the elk population.  I would also see WDFW at least appear to give a care about elk as well.

[OutHouse]

So you guys that post support for the natives (wrongs)rights, and say you don’t care, what is your opinion on ZERO limits, how about selling meat for jerky (illegal even by tribal law), and single members killing dozens of bulls each year to supply that business?  Does your support still make you feel warm and fuzzy inside??  Most of us are aware that it’s just a few bad apples on both sides, but c’mon man!

I am assuming you are speaking to me here on some of above.

I do support their rights.  They had a ton taken away and were given very little in return.  Our forefathers screwed them and we should at least honor what they were granted in exchange for everything they gave up.  Renegotiate if you want but don't just tear it up and say that doesn't apply anymore.

I never said I don't care and I am not sure anyone who has replied says they don't care about what is seen as abuse of those rights.

I am not happy about zero limits for some but I am not sure there is anything I can do about that. It is kind of like being pissed off the sun comes up every day in the east.  I can wish it would come up in the west but it just isn't going to happen so I can be pissed off about it or move on to what I can control.

Using the elk to sell jerky is frustrating.  I don't know that it is illegal by tribal law but if it is then it is.  Speeding is illegal and I do it all the time.  Not wearing a seatbelt is illegal and I do it all the time.  I would be willing to be that you do or have done something illegal before and paid absolutely consequences for your illegal behavior. It happens, we all do it on some level.

One member killing dozens of bulls is frustrating. Ever hear of the "kill em all boys"?  They shot a ton of deer, elk, bears, bobcats, all kinds of wildlife out of season and using illegal hunting methods greatly impacting the population and taking away opportunity from legal hunters.  I know you have read operation cody, all of those cases were non natives taking game outside normal seasons and way above legal limits.  It happens on both sides.

"Warm and fuzzy"?  I don't believe anyone in this thread said they feel "warm and fuzzy" about what is going on with the native harvest or the non native harvest.

That pretty much sums up my feelings on this as well. I don't know anyone in the "I don't care at all" category. The actual poaching by other groups is absolutely rampant, and is probably the major source of the problem. I reviewed files in a case where a guy here in central WA was killing dozens of deer per week and selling the bodies for $60 a piece. All of this was caught on a camera an informant was wearing. Unfortunately, the poaching was not the subject of that case, and the authorities had bigger fish to fry. Never heard about that investigation even starting as an independent investigation or going anywhere for that matter.

[Rainier10]

Interesting story Outhouse.

There is not a doubt in my mind that tons of deer especially but elk also get whacked by workers at illegal grow operations on DNR and NF land.  I am sure that just as many get whacked by farmers who are sick of crop damage from deer and elk.

People get enraged by the few bad apples in the native community but that is only because you can see it.  You can see it because it is their right. 

The reason nobody is pissed about poaching is because it is illegal so people don't do it in broad daylight for all to see.  They don't post it on YouTube videos of how to break an elk down in minutes that they have harvested outside of traditional seasons.

[OutHouse]

Interesting story Outhouse.

There is not a doubt in my mind that tons of deer especially but elk also get whacked by workers at illegal grow operations on DNR and NF land.  I am sure that just as many get whacked by farmers who are sick of crop damage from deer and elk.

People get enraged by the few bad apples in the native community but that is only because you can see it.  You can see it because it is their right. 

The reason nobody is pissed about poaching is because it is illegal so people don't do it in broad daylight for all to see.  They don't post it on YouTube videos of how to break an elk down in minutes that they have harvested outside of traditional seasons.

Good points. What's visible is what's gonna take the brunt of the anger that's for sure.

[Rainier10]

Another thing to consider when wanting bag limits.  If you limit each native to one deer and one elk a year you may see harvest go up.  You can legally have a companion shoot your animal for you.  Those that want to abuse it could go to everyone in the tribe and get permission to harvest  their deer and elk.  If a deer and elk was taken for every member of the tribe that would have an even greater impact on the population.

Working with the WDFW is the best chance our wildlife has but look at this forum and how much hate and distrust so many of the members here have the WDFW.  So many think they don't have our interests or the wildlife's interest in mind.  Do you think natives are going to trust and want to work with WDFW/government?  Come on, our government already screwed them with the treaty.

It seems to me the best option for our herds is to control what we can and enforce what we can.  Stop non native poaching and overharvest.

[Dan-o]

So you guys that post support for the natives (wrongs)rights, and say you don’t care, what is your opinion on ZERO limits, how about selling meat for jerky (illegal even by tribal law), and single members killing dozens of bulls each year to supply that business?  Does your support still make you feel warm and fuzzy inside??  Most of us are aware that it’s just a few bad apples on both sides, but c’mon man!

I am assuming you are speaking to me here on some of above.

I do support their rights.  They had a ton taken away and were given very little in return.  Our forefathers screwed them and we should at least honor what they were granted in exchange for everything they gave up.  Renegotiate if you want but don't just tear it up and say that doesn't apply anymore.

I never said I don't care and I am not sure anyone who has replied says they don't care about what is seen as abuse of those rights.
Edit: I found the post where hunter399 says he doesn't care how many they harvest followed by he wants reporting of harvest, enforcement of bag limits and for them to work with WDFW to manage the herds.

I am not happy about zero limits for some but I am not sure there is anything I can do about that. It is kind of like being pissed off the sun comes up every day in the east.  I can wish it would come up in the west but it just isn't going to happen so I can be pissed off about it or move on to what I can control.

Using the elk to sell jerky is frustrating.  I don't know that it is illegal by tribal law but if it is then it is.  Speeding is illegal and I do it all the time.  Not wearing a seatbelt is illegal and I do it all the time.  I would be willing to be that you do or have done something illegal before and paid absolutely consequences for your illegal behavior. It happens, we all do it on some level.

One member killing dozens of bulls is frustrating. Ever hear of the "kill em all boys"?  They shot a ton of deer, elk, bears, bobcats, all kinds of wildlife out of season and using illegal hunting methods greatly impacting the population and taking away opportunity from legal hunters.  I know you have read operation cody, all of those cases were non natives taking game outside normal seasons and way above legal limits.  It happens on both sides.

"Warm and fuzzy"?  I don't believe anyone in this thread said they feel "warm and fuzzy" about what is going on with the native harvest or the non native harvest.

Right there with you, Rainier.

Pretending that a treaty negotiated between nations doesn't exist is not the answer. 

Geez, did saying that make me warm and fuzzy?

[nwwanderer]

North Idaho tribe is in the process of banning grass field burning for concessions on other fronts.  Seems to me we need people with positive ideas knocking on every tribal door, I know, I am a simpleton but those changes could come from inside the tribes, show them the value of a living bull.  Models all over the planet.