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Author Topic: Why late archery?  (Read 5182 times)

Offline baldopepper

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Why late archery?
« on: November 21, 2021, 11:00:25 AM »
Can't attest to any other units, but I can't understand why a late archery hunt in 121. As most who hunted it noted, whitetail numbers in this unit were down rather dramatically this year.  I can't believe that another 20 days of being chased during the height of the rut is a good thing.  Don't suspect the hunter success will be terribly high, but just having more hunters in the field disturbing and chasing during the rut is not helpful.  Just my opinion

Offline boneaddict

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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2021, 12:11:05 PM »
I’m more bothered by antlerless harvest.  No idea if that still includes that, but you have antlerless harvest for 65 and older antlerless harvest for 18 and under, antlerless harvest for veterans, antlerless harvest for disability, antlerless harvest for those with covid, antlerless harvest for all the illegals that were separated at the border, antlerless harvest for….And then second, and third and maybe now fourth tags.  Mind blown. 

Online zwickeyman

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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2021, 12:23:39 PM »
I’m more bothered by antlerless harvest.  No idea if that still includes that, but you have antlerless harvest for 65 and older antlerless harvest for 18 and under, antlerless harvest for veterans, antlerless harvest for disability, antlerless harvest for those with covid, antlerless harvest for all the illegals that were separated at the border, antlerless harvest for….And then second, and third and maybe now fourth tags.  Mind blown.

 :yeah:

 There shouldnt be any Mule Deer Doe harvest period. Wa is the worst managed Western State

Except for Colockum Elk. Its the only thing they have done right for the most part
The mountains are calling and I must go

Offline buckfvr

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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2021, 12:25:18 PM »
You may see a change next year but not this year, too late for that.  You may also see late modern buck go permit if not gone period.  No doe permits for anyone imho. Baldo, only thing I will say is archery hunting late whitetail (anytime actually) is almost entirely sitting on your behind in one fashion or another over a bait pile.  No chasing involved.  Look for everything to change by next year when I suspect baiting goes by the way side in the name of CWD.  Success rates will plummet to all time lows because of no bait and low numbers.    :twocents:

Offline KFhunter

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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2021, 12:26:27 PM »
...and no tags sold

Offline buckfvr

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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2021, 12:28:57 PM »
...and no tags sold

And that right there is THE ONLY thing that will promote change at wdfw.

Offline boneaddict

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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2021, 12:32:05 PM »
I almost think we are beyond that.  They’ll just tax something else.   Game populations ruined so badly, no need for hunting period. 

Offline baldopepper

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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2021, 12:38:23 PM »
I’m more bothered by antlerless harvest.  No idea if that still includes that, but you have antlerless harvest for 65 and older antlerless harvest for 18 and under, antlerless harvest for veterans, antlerless harvest for disability, antlerless harvest for those with covid, antlerless harvest for all the illegals that were separated at the border, antlerless harvest for….And then second, and third and maybe now fourth tags.  Mind blown.
I totally agree with that.. Don't know about the west side units, but don't know of any east side units that can support or need an antlerless hunt. Pure and simply, if you want/need to bring back a herd, you quit shooting the does.

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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2021, 01:30:21 PM »
I can’t believe the sentiment of hunters and the ammo we continue to give Wdfw and /or antis to shut down all hunting opportunity.   

Blows my mind!!

When not just start a petition to take away all opportunities…….period??!!

What is the success rate in the late archery???  Anyone take the time to look?   What’s the difference between someone that filled tags in the early season vs someone that wants to fill them in the late season. 

And for curious minds…..121 late archery is “buck only”, no youth does, no 65 / older does, no dissolved does, no special permit does and no second deer tags given out. 

For heavens sakes guys…..stop giving the anti hunting group, to include our Wdfw more ammo to shut things down.   

If you want to chase deer in the late season have at it.   If you want it shut down, do your part and stop hunting in the general season too.    :bash: :bash:

Offline baldopepper

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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2021, 01:48:42 PM »
I can’t believe the sentiment of hunters and the ammo we continue to give Wdfw and /or antis to shut down all hunting opportunity.   

Blows my mind!!

When not just start a petition to take away all opportunities…….period??!!

What is the success rate in the late archery???  Anyone take the time to look?   What’s the difference between someone that filled tags in the early season vs someone that wants to fill them in the late season. 

And for curious minds…..121 late archery is “buck only”, no youth does, no 65 / older does, no dissolved does, no special permit does and no second deer tags given out. 

For heavens sakes guys…..stop giving the anti hunting group, to include our Wdfw more ammo to shut things down.   

If you want to chase deer in the late season have at it.   If you want it shut down, do your part and stop hunting in the general season too.    :bash: :bash:
Has nothing to do with anti's vs hunters. Watched Utah years ago continue down the hunter opportunity route and finally figure out they had decimated many herds. Many units had to be closed entirely and reopened on a limited draw basis only. Now there are virtually no OTC deer permits and late hunts and antlerless hunting are very limited. Nothing will cause hunting to disappear quicker than hunters coniunesly eating tag soup.  Managing the deer herds correctly is foremost, supposedly hunting is a tool for that and the major justification for hunting

Offline buggy

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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2021, 02:24:53 PM »
I've seen several members suggest more restrictions (less tags, no doe tags, point restrictions, etc) over the last few years. While I agree that something needs to be done to help herds my fear is that it's a one way street. I'm relatively young and no I haven't done any research yet (sorry) but I'm curious if anyone remembers a time where they increased opportunity after a herd recovered?

Offline baldopepper

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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2021, 02:43:52 PM »
Yes, as I stated previously Utah went from complete.closures to reopening, albeit on permit basis. Bad from the point of view that the big family groups seemed to disappear when only one or two members drew, but good from a deer herd recovery basis.  With the herd numbers in some of the units what they are, we are only a hard winter away from a complete disaster. 

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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2021, 05:34:10 PM »
I don't disagree that something needs to be done, but to just pick a user group and suggest that is the problem and will fix our deer numbers is a false narrative.  If that was the case and we thought eliminating one of the the user groups opportunity....we should just eliminate all rifle hunting seasons being that is the largest user group that hands down kills the majority of animals.....maybe not from a percentage standpoint but definitely as it pertains to total number of deer being shot.

From now on, Washington should be a primitive weapon state.  I would vote for that long before I ever agree to giving up more opportunity.  Less animals would be killed and at least the tradition of hunting with family and friends would remain intact. 

I understand what you saying about 121 and the blue tongue damage this year.  Reality is the late bow season will not change how long it takes these deer to recover.  The deer that died from blue tongue are....well dead.  The ones that weren't effected are very healthy and very much alive.  The pressure of bow hunters will undoubtedly be the same as it has been every year during this hunt.  Less animals will be killed due to the smaller number of animals to harvest.  The sun will rise and fall and next year will bring a new hunting season.  Harvest numbers will remain low as the heard rebuilds and with any luck and a little bit of actual give a F&*& from out game department, we will have a healthy heard again in the years to come. 

As a disclaimer:::

I also rifle hunt so my suggestion of taking away that user groups opportunity is said in gest. 

I also spend about 25-35% of my year in 121 and have not seen the decline of numbers in my general area.  Our heard has remained very healthy and strong.  Our does are as fat as they have been and we have had a great fawn year with most does having twins. 

I see the predator problem in 121 being a far bigger problem than any hunting.  I have at least 5-6 cougars that roam my property throughout the year and have pictures of at least 18 different bears this spring.  We have killed 4 bears off the property and it won't put a dent in the population....OHHHHH AND NOW THERE IS NO SPRING SEASON FOR 2022!!!  Where does the problem lie??   :bash: :bash: :bash:



At the end of the day, I am tired of surrendering opportunity to out state because we feel a few bow hunters are going to kill all the deer.....that simply is not the case.  If people were truly that concerned, blue tongue was in full swing long before the rifle season started....and the locals would not have shot the buck they did, to then now be appalled that bow hunters now get to hunt a season that has existed for a decade or longer. 


Offline Katmai Guy

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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2021, 05:48:09 PM »
I don't disagree that something needs to be done, but to just pick a user group and suggest that is the problem and will fix our deer numbers is a false narrative.  If that was the case and we thought eliminating one of the the user groups opportunity....we should just eliminate all rifle hunting seasons being that is the largest user group that hands down kills the majority of animals.....maybe not from a percentage standpoint but definitely as it pertains to total number of deer being shot.

From now on, Washington should be a primitive weapon state.  I would vote for that long before I ever agree to giving up more opportunity.  Less animals would be killed and at least the tradition of hunting with family and friends would remain intact. 

I understand what you saying about 121 and the blue tongue damage this year.  Reality is the late bow season will not change how long it takes these deer to recover.  The deer that died from blue tongue are....well dead.  The ones that weren't effected are very healthy and very much alive.  The pressure of bow hunters will undoubtedly be the same as it has been every year during this hunt.  Less animals will be killed due to the smaller number of animals to harvest.  The sun will rise and fall and next year will bring a new hunting season.  Harvest numbers will remain low as the heard rebuilds and with any luck and a little bit of actual give a F&*& from out game department, we will have a healthy heard again in the years to come. 

As a disclaimer:::

I also rifle hunt so my suggestion of taking away that user groups opportunity is said in gest. 

I also spend about 25-35% of my year in 121 and have not seen the decline of numbers in my general area.  Our heard has remained very healthy and strong.  Our does are as fat as they have been and we have had a great fawn year with most does having twins. 

I see the predator problem in 121 being a far bigger problem than any hunting.  I have at least 5-6 cougars that roam my property throughout the year and have pictures of at least 18 different bears this spring.  We have killed 4 bears off the property and it won't put a dent in the population....OHHHHH AND NOW THERE IS NO SPRING SEASON FOR 2022!!!  Where does the problem lie??   :bash: :bash: :bash:



At the end of the day, I am tired of surrendering opportunity to out state because we feel a few bow hunters are going to kill all the deer.....that simply is not the case.  If people were truly that concerned, blue tongue was in full swing long before the rifle season started....and the locals would not have shot the buck they did, to then now be appalled that bow hunters now get to hunt a season that has existed for a decade or longer.

Thank you
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Offline Seabass

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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2021, 05:51:59 PM »
The Mule deer problem and white tail problem are NOT the same. I understand there is an argument to be made about limiting MD tags as they have been in decline for quite some time.

The white tail problem we have this year is a disease issue that happens from time to time…WT WILL make a comeback as they always do. They were doing just fine in most units until this year. Take a deep breath…it will all work it’s self out.


Offline baldopepper

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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2021, 06:53:48 PM »
I don't disagree that something needs to be done, but to just pick a user group and suggest that is the problem and will fix our deer numbers is a false narrative.  If that was the case and we thought eliminating one of the the user groups opportunity....we should just eliminate all rifle hunting seasons being that is the largest user group that hands down kills the majority of animals.....maybe not from a percentage standpoint but definitely as it pertains to total number of deer being shot.

From now on, Washington should be a primitive weapon state.  I would vote for that long before I ever agree to giving up more opportunity.  Less animals would be killed and at least the tradition of hunting with family and friends would remain intact. 

I understand what you saying about 121 and the blue tongue damage this year.  Reality is the late bow season will not change how long it takes these deer to recover.  The deer that died from blue tongue are....well dead.  The ones that weren't effected are very healthy and very much alive.  The pressure of bow hunters will undoubtedly be the same as it has been every year during this hunt.  Less animals will be killed due to the smaller number of animals to harvest.  The sun will rise and fall and next year will bring a new hunting season.  Harvest numbers will remain low as the heard rebuilds and with any luck and a little bit of actual give a F&*& from out game department, we will have a healthy heard again in the years to come. 

As a disclaimer:::

I also rifle hunt so my suggestion of taking away that user groups opportunity is said in gest. 

I also spend about 25-35% of my year in 121 and have not seen the decline of numbers in my general area.  Our heard has remained very healthy and strong.  Our does are as fat as they have been and we have had a great fawn year with most does having twins. 

I see the predator problem in 121 being a far bigger problem than any hunting.  I have at least 5-6 cougars that roam my property throughout the year and have pictures of at least 18 different bears this spring.  We have killed 4 bears off the property and it won't put a dent in the population....OHHHHH AND NOW THERE IS NO SPRING SEASON FOR 2022!!!  Where does the problem lie??   :bash: :bash: :bash:



At the end of the day, I am tired of surrendering opportunity to out state because we feel a few bow hunters are going to kill all the deer.....that simply is not the case.  If people were truly that concerned, blue tongue was in full swing long before the rifle season started....and the locals would not have shot the buck they did, to then now be appalled that bow hunters now get to hunt a season that has existed for a decade or longer.
Not my intent to single out the archery people, I was also opposed to the modern weapon late hunt. I ve been hunting 121 for over 25 years and have watched the whitetail numbers decline consistently over the years.  Where I used to commonly have 15-20 whiteys show up daily around the house, I now occasionally see 1 or 2. Yes, the ones I see are fat and healthy looking, there just aren't the numbers anymore  I don't like lost opportunity anymore than anyone else, but as I posted earlier, I went thru this scenario in the 60's in Utah and it was not good. Everyone there said the old "don't worry, they,'ll come back", they didn't until closures and major restrictions happened that totally changed deer hunting opportunities.
Blue tongue did hit our area (glass carefully the big fields on the west side of Bissell road and you'll easily see 5 deer carcuses, all whitetails and most likely blue tongue-we checked them out carefully) I don't think it hit our area as hard as others. I just fill we need to give up some of the special hunts now rather than all of them later

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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2021, 06:58:52 PM »
Yeah, I know it hit our area....but not near as hard as others.  I also know south of our place on the hunter sedonia road saw some die....but I have yet to find a dead one on or around our property.  We are higher though which apparently made a big difference. 

Offline KFhunter

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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2021, 07:14:37 PM »
I don't disagree that something needs to be done, but to just pick a user group and suggest that is the problem and will fix our deer numbers is a false narrative.  If that was the case and we thought eliminating one of the the user groups opportunity....we should just eliminate all rifle hunting seasons being that is the largest user group that hands down kills the majority of animals.....maybe not from a percentage standpoint but definitely as it pertains to total number of deer being shot.

From now on, Washington should be a primitive weapon state.  I would vote for that long before I ever agree to giving up more opportunity.  Less animals would be killed and at least the tradition of hunting with family and friends would remain intact. 

I understand what you saying about 121 and the blue tongue damage this year.  Reality is the late bow season will not change how long it takes these deer to recover.  The deer that died from blue tongue are....well dead.  The ones that weren't effected are very healthy and very much alive.  The pressure of bow hunters will undoubtedly be the same as it has been every year during this hunt.  Less animals will be killed due to the smaller number of animals to harvest.  The sun will rise and fall and next year will bring a new hunting season.  Harvest numbers will remain low as the heard rebuilds and with any luck and a little bit of actual give a F&*& from out game department, we will have a healthy heard again in the years to come. 

As a disclaimer:::

I also rifle hunt so my suggestion of taking away that user groups opportunity is said in gest. 

I also spend about 25-35% of my year in 121 and have not seen the decline of numbers in my general area.  Our heard has remained very healthy and strong.  Our does are as fat as they have been and we have had a great fawn year with most does having twins. 

I see the predator problem in 121 being a far bigger problem than any hunting.  I have at least 5-6 cougars that roam my property throughout the year and have pictures of at least 18 different bears this spring.  We have killed 4 bears off the property and it won't put a dent in the population....OHHHHH AND NOW THERE IS NO SPRING SEASON FOR 2022!!!  Where does the problem lie??   :bash: :bash: :bash:



At the end of the day, I am tired of surrendering opportunity to out state because we feel a few bow hunters are going to kill all the deer.....that simply is not the case.  If people were truly that concerned, blue tongue was in full swing long before the rifle season started....and the locals would not have shot the buck they did, to then now be appalled that bow hunters now get to hunt a season that has existed for a decade or longer.
Not my intent to single out the archery people, I was also opposed to the modern weapon late hunt. I ve been hunting 121 for over 25 years and have watched the whitetail numbers decline consistently over the years.  Where I used to commonly have 15-20 whiteys show up daily around the house, I now occasionally see 1 or 2. Yes, the ones I see are fat and healthy looking, there just aren't the numbers anymore  I don't like lost opportunity anymore than anyone else, but as I posted earlier, I went thru this scenario in the 60's in Utah and it was not good. Everyone there said the old "don't worry, they,'ll come back", they didn't until closures and major restrictions happened that totally changed deer hunting opportunities.
Blue tongue did hit our area (glass carefully the big fields on the west side of Bissell road and you'll easily see 5 deer carcuses, all whitetails and most likely blue tongue-we checked them out carefully) I don't think it hit our area as hard as others. I just fill we need to give up some of the special hunts now rather than all of them later

by reducing hunting for people all you're doing, and advocating for, is making more wolf/cougar/bear/coyote chit   



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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2021, 07:26:12 PM »
I would consider a complete, one year, shutdown of all deer and elk hunting statewide it WDFW would allow and one year of hound hunting cats (one year / year round) and hound hunting / baiting of bears (one year / year round) to reduce the population of predators. 

Allow all hunters to take up to two bears and 1 cat in that year.... period and lets see what happens to out ungulate population.   



Offline KFhunter

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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2021, 07:28:30 PM »
ummm


the commission just voted down a spring bear hunt, what chance is there of turning over a voter referendum and allowing hounds?   


and how could enough hunters get hounds up and running within a year?   That's a lifestyle - you're married to your dogs

Offline Seabass

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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2021, 07:31:51 PM »
I would consider a complete, one year, shutdown of all deer and elk hunting statewide it WDFW would allow and one year of hound hunting cats (one year / year round) and hound hunting / baiting of bears (one year / year round) to reduce the population of predators. 

Allow all hunters to take up to two bears and 1 cat in that year.... period and lets see what happens to out ungulate population.   

Sort of like 2 weeks to flatten the curve?  :chuckle:

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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2021, 07:32:37 PM »
ummm


the commission just voted down a spring bear hunt, what chance is there of turning over a voter referendum and allowing hounds?   


and how could enough hunters get hounds up and running within a year?   That's a lifestyle - you're married to your dogs

Get the commission to say yes and let hunters to figure the rest.  I get the fact it is not gonna happen and not realist......thus I'm not giving up any more opportunity and other hunters should feel the same way. 

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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2021, 07:33:03 PM »
I would consider a complete, one year, shutdown of all deer and elk hunting statewide it WDFW would allow and one year of hound hunting cats (one year / year round) and hound hunting / baiting of bears (one year / year round) to reduce the population of predators. 

Allow all hunters to take up to two bears and 1 cat in that year.... period and lets see what happens to out ungulate population.   

Sort of like 2 weeks to flatten the curve?  :chuckle:

I’m with you though…that’s a decent idea which is exactly why it won’t happen.

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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2021, 07:33:57 PM »
 :chuckle:

I was getting worried you found some shrooms in the cow patties out back

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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2021, 07:55:29 PM »
Guess the various predators don't like mule deer, there numbers around me have increased dramatically over the past few years. Again this year seemed to be a very healthy population of  fawns. Don't suppose it had anything to do with a apr, no late hunts, no various antlerless hunts on them. No question the predators are out of control around us, especially the lions, but obviously hunting restrictions are  helping mulies thrive.

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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #25 on: November 21, 2021, 08:20:47 PM »
Guess the various predators don't like mule deer, there numbers around me have increased dramatically over the past few years. Again this year seemed to be a very healthy population of  fawns. Don't suppose it had anything to do with a apr, no late hunts, no various antlerless hunts on them. No question the predators are out of control around us, especially the lions, but obviously hunting restrictions are  helping mulies thrive.

The mule deer down by you have far fewer predators than the deer up canyon.  I run cameras on a couple properties, one not far from you off the hwy and have only seen one cougar and one bear in two years.  The mule deer thrive in that area and I have to believe it is because the lack of predators relative to further away from the hwy properties.....and the increase in residency / human presence.  I also know of some large tracts that have sold that do not allow hunting any longer which decreases the human predation.  Now if the bucks had time to grow so we had quality mule deer.....that would be something else.  I would be a huge proponent of WDFW moving to a 4 pt minimum for mule deer in the area.   ;)

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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2021, 08:33:14 PM »
Guess the various predators don't like mule deer, there numbers around me have increased dramatically over the past few years. Again this year seemed to be a very healthy population of  fawns. Don't suppose it had anything to do with a apr, no late hunts, no various antlerless hunts on them. No question the predators are out of control around us, especially the lions, but obviously hunting restrictions are  helping mulies thrive.

The mule deer down by you have far fewer predators than the deer up canyon.  I run cameras on a couple properties, one not far from you off the hwy and have only seen one cougar and one bear in two years.  The mule deer thrive in that area and I have to believe it is because the lack of predators relative to further away from the hwy properties.....and the increase in residency / human presence.  I also know of some large tracts that have sold that do not allow hunting any longer which decreases the human predation.  Now if the bucks had time to grow so we had quality mule deer.....that would be something else.  I would be a huge proponent of WDFW moving to a 4 pt minimum for mule deer in the area.   ;)
well, there is some truth to that, although we and our neighbor commonly have lion pics on our trail cams, but why wouldn't the whitetail also be taking advantage of that? Honestly, I would like to see us have the bucks only October hunt only and give the whiteys a break for a couple years. Kids could have shot several nice mule deer bucks last week, including one very nice 4x5, so they are around. We're due for a rough winter, and I'm concerned that ,combined with the blue tongue,could be devastating to our whitetails in the area.

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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2021, 08:46:54 PM »
Guess the various predators don't like mule deer, there numbers around me have increased dramatically over the past few years. Again this year seemed to be a very healthy population of  fawns. Don't suppose it had anything to do with a apr, no late hunts, no various antlerless hunts on them. No question the predators are out of control around us, especially the lions, but obviously hunting restrictions are  helping mulies thrive.

The mule deer down by you have far fewer predators than the deer up canyon.  I run cameras on a couple properties, one not far from you off the hwy and have only seen one cougar and one bear in two years.  The mule deer thrive in that area and I have to believe it is because the lack of predators relative to further away from the hwy properties.....and the increase in residency / human presence.  I also know of some large tracts that have sold that do not allow hunting any longer which decreases the human predation.  Now if the bucks had time to grow so we had quality mule deer.....that would be something else.  I would be a huge proponent of WDFW moving to a 4 pt minimum for mule deer in the area.   ;)
well, there is some truth to that, although we and our neighbor commonly have lion pics on our trail cams, but why wouldn't the whitetail also be taking advantage of that? Honestly, I would like to see us have the bucks only October hunt only and give the whiteys a break for a couple years. Kids could have shot several nice mule deer bucks last week, including one very nice 4x5, so they are around. We're due for a rough winter, and I'm concerned that ,combined with the blue tongue,could be devastating to our whitetails in the area.

It is super weird that the mule deer in that area tend to live where whitetail should and whitetail live where mulies would.  Still haven't figured that one out in the area.   :chuckle: :chuckle:

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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #28 on: November 21, 2021, 08:52:20 PM »
Yes, as I stated previously Utah went from complete.closures to reopening, albeit on permit basis. Bad from the point of view that the big family groups seemed to disappear when only one or two members drew, but good from a deer herd recovery basis.  With the herd numbers in some of the units what they are, we are only a hard winter away from a complete disaster.

I guess I was referring specifically to Washington. I understand that happened in Utah (btw I'm not a fan of making the whole state permit only if it can be avoided) but I have a hard time believing that Washington would do anything to bring it back. I guess in my short life time I've only seen opportunities decreased but not increased. (Please correct me if I'm wrong here.) I dont disagree that its being mismanaged and that something needs to change but I feel that once an opportunity is gone it's gone for good in this state. Maybe some old timers or someone with more knowledge than me can chime in.  :twocents:

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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #29 on: November 21, 2021, 08:53:21 PM »
Guess the various predators don't like mule deer, there numbers around me have increased dramatically over the past few years. Again this year seemed to be a very healthy population of  fawns. Don't suppose it had anything to do with a apr, no late hunts, no various antlerless hunts on them. No question the predators are out of control around us, especially the lions, but obviously hunting restrictions are  helping mulies thrive.

The mule deer down by you have far fewer predators than the deer up canyon.  I run cameras on a couple properties, one not far from you off the hwy and have only seen one cougar and one bear in two years.  The mule deer thrive in that area and I have to believe it is because the lack of predators relative to further away from the hwy properties.....and the increase in residency / human presence.  I also know of some large tracts that have sold that do not allow hunting any longer which decreases the human predation.  Now if the bucks had time to grow so we had quality mule deer.....that would be something else.  I would be a huge proponent of WDFW moving to a 4 pt minimum for mule deer in the area.   ;)
well, there is some truth to that, although we and our neighbor commonly have lion pics on our trail cams, but why wouldn't the whitetail also be taking advantage of that? Honestly, I would like to see us have the bucks only October hunt only and give the whiteys a break for a couple years. Kids could have shot several nice mule deer bucks last week, including one very nice 4x5, so they are around. We're due for a rough winter, and I'm concerned that ,combined with the blue tongue,could be devastating to our whitetails in the area.

It is super weird that the mule deer in that area tend to live where whitetail should and whitetail live where mulies would.  Still haven't figured that one out in the area.   :chuckle: :chuckle:
well, I'll have to meet you down at the Hunters Tav sometime, buy you a cold one and we'll figure it out. LOL

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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #30 on: November 21, 2021, 08:56:04 PM »
Guess the various predators don't like mule deer, there numbers around me have increased dramatically over the past few years. Again this year seemed to be a very healthy population of  fawns. Don't suppose it had anything to do with a apr, no late hunts, no various antlerless hunts on them. No question the predators are out of control around us, especially the lions, but obviously hunting restrictions are  helping mulies thrive.

The mule deer down by you have far fewer predators than the deer up canyon.  I run cameras on a couple properties, one not far from you off the hwy and have only seen one cougar and one bear in two years.  The mule deer thrive in that area and I have to believe it is because the lack of predators relative to further away from the hwy properties.....and the increase in residency / human presence.  I also know of some large tracts that have sold that do not allow hunting any longer which decreases the human predation.  Now if the bucks had time to grow so we had quality mule deer.....that would be something else.  I would be a huge proponent of WDFW moving to a 4 pt minimum for mule deer in the area.   ;)
well, there is some truth to that, although we and our neighbor commonly have lion pics on our trail cams, but why wouldn't the whitetail also be taking advantage of that? Honestly, I would like to see us have the bucks only October hunt only and give the whiteys a break for a couple years. Kids could have shot several nice mule deer bucks last week, including one very nice 4x5, so they are around. We're due for a rough winter, and I'm concerned that ,combined with the blue tongue,could be devastating to our whitetails in the area.

It is super weird that the mule deer in that area tend to live where whitetail should and whitetail live where mulies would.  Still haven't figured that one out in the area.   :chuckle: :chuckle:
well, I'll have to meet you down at the Hunters Tav sometime, buy you a cold one and we'll figure it out. LOL

 :tup:

Offline Scruffy

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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #31 on: November 21, 2021, 09:38:09 PM »
I am totally against giving up any season or going to a draw permit of any sorts.  Once you give something up you will never get it back.  This is not just an issue with the 121 unit.  I hunted the Winthrop area for 25 yrs, back then you could see 30-50 deer a day in the field.  Today you are lucky to see 5.  At Pearrygin State Park we used to see 200 deer come in there in the evening, now your lucky so see 10-15.  This is not from over hunting.  That area has been hit hard with fires but they have a huge predator problem.  How many coyotes, bear, or cougar have you killed to help the deer herds?  I would suggest we all shift our focus to that to keep their population in check and the deer numbers will rise.  I am willing to bet the ratio of predators to deer is about the same across the state so it is a statewide issue.  Has any hunting group even tried to put an initiative together for a vote to allow baiting or the use of dogs again?  If we don't pool together to have our voices heard we will lose the fight.  But to come on here and complain about certain hunting groups is not the answer.  just my  :twocents:
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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #32 on: November 21, 2021, 10:43:03 PM »
this isnt just a issue in 121, its pretty much all the NE units. I have places in 121,105 and 101 I hunt and its sickening to see whats happened to the whitetail herd. Im done chasing them around in those units until they rebound. WDFW we all know will do jack^%$# or something 4-5 years too late.

Like mentioned above with predator hunting that is something we can do! and would help herds drastically if we put a dent in them. This is not an opinion or a maybe. There are several studies out there showing the impact that bears have on calves and fawns. Problem is maybe 10% of the deer and elk hunters actually specifically hunt them am I am not talking getting a bear while deer and elk hunting and getting lucky.

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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #33 on: November 21, 2021, 10:44:55 PM »
Predator Incentive Points...

:peep:

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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #34 on: November 21, 2021, 11:10:41 PM »
Predator Incentive Points...

:peep:

 :chuckle: Everyone gets something nowadays for free besides me it seems like but this could benefit me finally 😂... I did kill two bears and put my friend on another 2 he missed. I enjoy bear hunting more than anything else now. No crowds, lots of activity, good weather. Shame spring bear in this state is done. Really love that time of year

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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #35 on: November 22, 2021, 10:43:24 AM »
So if cow and doe hunting/kill is such an evil thing, why does every surrounding state  allow this?

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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #36 on: November 22, 2021, 11:08:29 AM »
Predator Incentive Points...

:peep:
So if cow and doe hunting/kill is such an evil thing, why does every surrounding state  allow this?
this isnt just a issue in 121, its pretty much all the NE units. I have places in 121,105 and 101 I hunt and its sickening to see whats happened to the whitetail herd. Im done chasing them around in those units until they rebound. WDFW we all know will do jack^%$# or something 4-5 years too late.

Like mentioned above with predator hunting that is something we can do! and would help herds drastically if we put a dent in them. This is not an opinion or a maybe. There are several studies out there showing the impact that bears have on calves and fawns. Problem is maybe 10% of the deer and elk hunters actually specifically hunt them am I am not talking getting a bear while deer and elk hunting and getting lucky.

Agendas vary dramatically from state to state and then theres the $$$$$$$$$$$

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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #37 on: November 22, 2021, 11:09:42 AM »
And this has become an evil state, make no mistake about that.

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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #38 on: November 22, 2021, 12:16:24 PM »
So if cow and doe hunting/kill is such an evil thing, why does every surrounding state  allow this?
neither is an evil thing.if you don't have plummeting.populations of the animals. Taking cows and does is very much a part of game management when used to properly balance herds with the available ecosystem. Unfortunately our state has been hit with severe fires, booming predator populations,  increasing human settlement in game animal habitats, and now blue tongue outbreak being the probable major causes of our game animal declines.  While there seems to be little or nothing we as hunters can do to control these causes, we must carry the burden of losing hunting opportunities. I don't like it, been through it before, but don't see any other changes realistically on the table in Washington. With less than 10 percent of our population being hunters its going to be unrealistic to think we are going to get any legislative or popular support to change things. Sad, but true

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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #39 on: November 22, 2021, 04:03:00 PM »
"we must carry the burden of losing hunting opportunities"

Take a look at success rates for late season and tell me how this is going to increase herd sizes? Or even make an appreciable difference?  I get the sentiment, but imo the collapsing herds will be the tool to peel hunting from our future and our kids' future.

If the WDFW commission was dedicated to preserving, protecting, and perpetuating the state’s fish, wildlife, and ecosystems while providing sustainable fish and wildlife recreational and commercial opportunities they'd be pushing predator hunts by any means necessary.

More ungulates means more of everything, more predators, more weasels, more birds, better habitat.   Even the fur from a long dead carcass makes squirrel and bird nests, there's more bugs...the entire ecosystem suffers with very low ungulate counts.

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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #40 on: November 22, 2021, 04:15:28 PM »
"we must carry the burden of losing hunting opportunities"

Take a look at success rates for late season and tell me how this is going to increase herd sizes? Or even make an appreciable difference?  I get the sentiment, but imo the collapsing herds will be the tool to peel hunting from our future and our kids' future.

If the WDFW commission was dedicated to preserving, protecting, and perpetuating the state’s fish, wildlife, and ecosystems while providing sustainable fish and wildlife recreational and commercial opportunities they'd be pushing predator hunts by any means necessary.

More ungulates means more of everything, more predators, more weasels, more birds, better habitat.   Even the fur from a long dead carcass makes squirrel and bird nests, there's more bugs...the entire ecosystem suffers with very low ungulate counts.

Sounds too scientific and logical.  Thats not what their looking for.    :chuckle:

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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #41 on: November 27, 2021, 02:03:37 PM »
What’s the report been for the late hunt from everyone?

Long sits, not terribly cold weather, no deer for me in 121. Anyone getting any action in 100-124?

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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #42 on: November 27, 2021, 08:01:29 PM »
121 hasn't allowed for any antlerless hunts for a few years now, and always bee 3pt min for mules.

Plenty of deer in 121 - but mainly in the private lands, timber companies, farms, ranches, etc.  Not sure how well the public land is doing, but private land sure looks like it could stand a kids antlerless hunt and be just fine .

I'll be up there with my 14 year old daughter soon hoping to get either of us our first archery kill.

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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #43 on: November 27, 2021, 08:19:39 PM »
Guess the various predators don't like mule deer, there numbers around me have increased dramatically over the past few years. Again this year seemed to be a very healthy population of  fawns. Don't suppose it had anything to do with a apr, no late hunts, no various antlerless hunts on them. No question the predators are out of control around us, especially the lions, but obviously hunting restrictions are  helping mulies thrive.

The mule deer down by you have far fewer predators than the deer up canyon.  I run cameras on a couple properties, one not far from you off the hwy and have only seen one cougar and one bear in two years.  The mule deer thrive in that area and I have to believe it is because the lack of predators relative to further away from the hwy properties.....and the increase in residency / human presence.  I also know of some large tracts that have sold that do not allow hunting any longer which decreases the human predation.  Now if the bucks had time to grow so we had quality mule deer.....that would be something else.  I would be a huge proponent of WDFW moving to a 4 pt minimum for mule deer in the area.   ;)
well, there is some truth to that, although we and our neighbor commonly have lion pics on our trail cams, but why wouldn't the whitetail also be taking advantage of that? Honestly, I would like to see us have the bucks only October hunt only and give the whiteys a break for a couple years. Kids could have shot several nice mule deer bucks last week, including one very nice 4x5, so they are around. We're due for a rough winter, and I'm concerned that ,combined with the blue tongue,could be devastating to our whitetails in the area.

It is super weird that the mule deer in that area tend to live where whitetail should and whitetail live where mulies would.  Still haven't figured that one out in the area.   :chuckle: :chuckle:
well, I'll have to meet you down at the Hunters Tav sometime, buy you a cold one and we'll figure it out. LOL
WHAT, you guys didn't invite me. What's wrong with ya.

Mule deer in 117/121 need some help in my opinion. You can look at harvest reports and see that.

Whitetail bow hunters should get there late season ,just the same as modern and all the different weapon types.
WT numbers are down,but there still out there.
And of coarse I've seen an explosion of deer since modern ended.
You never know seasons may change next year with our emotional,non-scientific ,commission.
I'll offer up some picture evidence.
Those are two different bucks,same cam,date is correct.
Also private land,so for some of you guys ,don't even bother to download photo to try and get the location. :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Goodluck Bow hunters, time is ticking away.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2021, 08:26:31 PM by hunter399 »
Two birds in the Bush is always better than one in the hand-that way you can always go to the Bush and hunt another day .conservation=Better hunting.
Wrote by hunter399

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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #44 on: November 27, 2021, 09:51:08 PM »
Ok, you're invited but you have to buy at least one round.  :chuckle:

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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #45 on: November 27, 2021, 09:53:21 PM »
Ok, you're invited but you have to buy at least one round:chuckle:

I like where this is going!!   :chuckle: :tup:

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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #46 on: November 27, 2021, 10:24:17 PM »
Ok, you're invited but you have to buy at least one round:chuckle:

I like where this is going!!   :chuckle: :tup:
No problem with that. :tup:
Two birds in the Bush is always better than one in the hand-that way you can always go to the Bush and hunt another day .conservation=Better hunting.
Wrote by hunter399

 


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