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Author Topic: 2024-2026 Hunting Season Proposals  (Read 10810 times)

Offline Karl Blanchard

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Re: 2024-2026 Hunting Season Proposals
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2024, 01:25:43 PM »
Further decline in Yakima archery permits for bulls.  More than a little head scratching.

Any hope of convincing the department that success rates for archery can support more than single digit permits?  Especially when cow permits remain high?


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That one just absolutely makes me pull my hair out. Yakima is bursting at the seams with elk. These bull permit numbers are insulting.
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Offline duckmen1

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Re: 2024-2026 Hunting Season Proposals
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2024, 02:49:40 PM »
Further decline in Yakima archery permits for bulls.  More than a little head scratching.

Any hope of convincing the department that success rates for archery can support more than single digit permits?  Especially when cow permits remain high?


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That one just absolutely makes me pull my hair out. Yakima is bursting at the seams with elk. These bull permit numbers are insulting.

This topic in how permits are being handled in concern to bull tags vs cow tags is mind blowing in regards to their proposals in keeping high cow tag permits but keeping bull tags at an absolute minimum. Not sure I understand their thoughts. But there are several topics and such I can say that on with proposed regs. Some things I agree with and other things I don't agree with at all. But I feel most of us are feeling the same overall.
Maturity is when you have the power to destroy someone who did you wrong but instead you breathe, walk away, and let life take care of them.

Offline idahohuntr

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Re: 2024-2026 Hunting Season Proposals
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2024, 03:37:41 PM »
Four new quality bull tags/hunts on Rattlesnake/Hanford...one of the few additional opportunities I see.
Is that the area the yakamas hunted on just recently?
I believe it is...but I'm not certain.  I think some folks suggested the Yakama's hunting it was going to create state hunter opportunity.  Win-Win?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood..." - TR

Offline Humptulips

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Re: 2024-2026 Hunting Season Proposals
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2024, 08:03:10 PM »
I was thinking damn, one of the nice trophy aspects of getting a cat is its skull mount
I have been trying to get them to just take an incisor but no go. They want a canine because it is more accurate for aging. I would urge people to comment for incisor submission as an alternative.
I'll just paste this from a research article in the Wildlife Society Bulletin,

" For age estimation via CAA, although the canine remains the preferred tooth type in most carnivores, the value
 of using the incisor for age estimation should not be discounted. In fact, the incisor may be more desirable for
 collection in research projects involving live capture and release to reduce discomfort and potential post‐release
 effects (e.g., canine removal affecting ability to capture prey) to the study animals. Although lower precision
 associated with age estimation should be expected from incisors, the resultant estimates may be useful to establish a
12 of 14 |
 HILLER ET AL.
 relative age index, or to group individuals into age classes. Managers may determine that identification of age class is
 sufficient for making informed decisions based on results of SPR or other population modeling approaches. Quantifying
 errors associated with sex identification and age estimation, in addition to identifying specific management goals, can
 assist managers in fully utilizing harvest data that are available"
Bruce Vandervort

Offline HntnFsh

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Re: 2024-2026 Hunting Season Proposals
« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2024, 07:56:51 AM »
I like 4 and 5! About time!

Offline fishngamereaper

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Re: 2024-2026 Hunting Season Proposals
« Reply #20 on: February 23, 2024, 08:11:41 AM »
Further decline in Yakima archery permits for bulls.  More than a little head scratching.

Any hope of convincing the department that success rates for archery can support more than single digit permits?  Especially when cow permits remain high?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That one just absolutely makes me pull my hair out. Yakima is bursting at the seams with elk. These bull permit numbers are insulting.

 :yeah:
The bull to cow ratio the last few years is mine blowing.

Offline TeacherMan

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Re: 2024-2026 Hunting Season Proposals
« Reply #21 on: February 23, 2024, 08:18:55 AM »
I was thinking damn, one of the nice trophy aspects of getting a cat is its skull mount
I have been trying to get them to just take an incisor but no go. They want a canine because it is more accurate for aging. I would urge people to comment for incisor submission as an alternative.
I'll just paste this from a research article in the Wildlife Society Bulletin,

" For age estimation via CAA, although the canine remains the preferred tooth type in most carnivores, the value
 of using the incisor for age estimation should not be discounted. In fact, the incisor may be more desirable for
 collection in research projects involving live capture and release to reduce discomfort and potential post‐release
 effects (e.g., canine removal affecting ability to capture prey) to the study animals. Although lower precision
 associated with age estimation should be expected from incisors, the resultant estimates may be useful to establish a
12 of 14 |
 HILLER ET AL.
 relative age index, or to group individuals into age classes. Managers may determine that identification of age class is
 sufficient for making informed decisions based on results of SPR or other population modeling approaches. Quantifying
 errors associated with sex identification and age estimation, in addition to identifying specific management goals, can
 assist managers in fully utilizing harvest data that are available"

I wonder if other states will turn to this. It’s pretty darn invasive. 
If you shoot the first one you will never get that true trophy.

Offline Humptulips

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Re: 2024-2026 Hunting Season Proposals
« Reply #22 on: February 23, 2024, 10:59:02 AM »
I was thinking damn, one of the nice trophy aspects of getting a cat is its skull mount
I have been trying to get them to just take an incisor but no go. They want a canine because it is more accurate for aging. I would urge people to comment for incisor submission as an alternative.
I'll just paste this from a research article in the Wildlife Society Bulletin,

" For age estimation via CAA, although the canine remains the preferred tooth type in most carnivores, the value
 of using the incisor for age estimation should not be discounted. In fact, the incisor may be more desirable for
 collection in research projects involving live capture and release to reduce discomfort and potential post‐release
 effects (e.g., canine removal affecting ability to capture prey) to the study animals. Although lower precision
 associated with age estimation should be expected from incisors, the resultant estimates may be useful to establish a
12 of 14 |
 HILLER ET AL.
 relative age index, or to group individuals into age classes. Managers may determine that identification of age class is
 sufficient for making informed decisions based on results of SPR or other population modeling approaches. Quantifying
 errors associated with sex identification and age estimation, in addition to identifying specific management goals, can
 assist managers in fully utilizing harvest data that are available"

I wonder if other states will turn to this. It’s pretty darn invasive.
Oregon and I believe Utah already require it.
Bruce Vandervort

Offline bobcat

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Re: 2024-2026 Hunting Season Proposals
« Reply #23 on: February 23, 2024, 11:06:44 AM »
Further decline in Yakima archery permits for bulls.  More than a little head scratching.

Any hope of convincing the department that success rates for archery can support more than single digit permits?  Especially when cow permits remain high?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That one just absolutely makes me pull my hair out. Yakima is bursting at the seams with elk. These bull permit numbers are insulting.

 :yeah:
The bull to cow ratio the last few years is mine blowing.

I'm guessing we have extremely low bull elk permit numbers to make up for all the bulls that are taken year around by tribal hunters.

Offline Harbor_hunter

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Re: 2024-2026 Hunting Season Proposals
« Reply #24 on: February 23, 2024, 11:33:37 AM »
Link for this?  Too dumb to find it on the WDFW website I guess,  :chuckle:

Offline Bullkllr

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Re: 2024-2026 Hunting Season Proposals
« Reply #25 on: February 23, 2024, 11:40:52 AM »
Link for this?  Too dumb to find it on the WDFW website I guess,  :chuckle:
https://publicinput.com/i5887#tab-48565
"Making good people helpless will not make bad people harmless"

Offline Harbor_hunter

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Re: 2024-2026 Hunting Season Proposals
« Reply #26 on: February 23, 2024, 11:53:31 AM »
Thanks Bullkllr!

Offline 7t9cobra

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Re: 2024-2026 Hunting Season Proposals
« Reply #27 on: February 27, 2024, 08:58:20 AM »
I was thinking damn, one of the nice trophy aspects of getting a cat is its skull mount
I have been trying to get them to just take an incisor but no go. They want a canine because it is more accurate for aging. I would urge people to comment for incisor submission as an alternative.
I'll just paste this from a research article in the Wildlife Society Bulletin,

" For age estimation via CAA, although the canine remains the preferred tooth type in most carnivores, the value
 of using the incisor for age estimation should not be discounted. In fact, the incisor may be more desirable for
 collection in research projects involving live capture and release to reduce discomfort and potential post‐release
 effects (e.g., canine removal affecting ability to capture prey) to the study animals. Although lower precision
 associated with age estimation should be expected from incisors, the resultant estimates may be useful to establish a
12 of 14 |
 HILLER ET AL.
 relative age index, or to group individuals into age classes. Managers may determine that identification of age class is
 sufficient for making informed decisions based on results of SPR or other population modeling approaches. Quantifying
 errors associated with sex identification and age estimation, in addition to identifying specific management goals, can
 assist managers in fully utilizing harvest data that are available"

I wonder if other states will turn to this. It’s pretty darn invasive.


     Way too invasive. If they want more people to participate in giving them data you would think they would want to give some incentive. But instead they want to take a large part of your harvest. Sounds counter productive to me. The canine submittal should be voluntary and there should be some sort of incentive.

Offline Loup Loup

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Re: 2024-2026 Hunting Season Proposals
« Reply #28 on: February 27, 2024, 10:09:30 AM »
We have 300-400 successful bobcat harvesters in WA every year. How many of those nimrods would be able to remove a canine or incisor tooth…undamaged…from a Bobcat skull? I say the vast minority. It would be a toss up if I could remove a canine tooth undamaged. For sure the jaw would by cut/ broken at the tooth site by the time I got the tooth out. An incisor, undamaged? No. Plus the skull/jaw would be severely damaged. Broken teeth are unusable for data collection.
The comment in the report about removing an incisor from a Bobcat to make it easier on a released Bobcat is ludicrous. For one, how many Bobcats does WDFW release in the course of a year? How many of those can be age classed by simply looking at the cat: adult or young of the year? Question solved.
A damaged skull, or missing lower jaw severely lower the value of a skull possibly to the point of no monetary value. I don’t know how either couldn’t negatively affect the use of a cat for taxidermy use.
If they must have a tooth, a premolar is much easier and less invasive to remove. As is done with bear, cougar, and wolves. (Wolves in Idaho)
In Idaho they did a three year study. The submission of Bobcat lower jaws was voluntary, plus IDFW reimbursed the harvester $5.
There is only three sustainable, real world ways to do this:
1. No action. Continue to age/ sex cats at time of CITIES tagging as has been done since early 70s. +-
2. Have harvester remove premolar tooth and submit. As is done with bear.
3. Give WDFW the jaw.
Also, how long would this Bobcat “study” be in effect?

Offline bearhunter99

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Re: 2024-2026 Hunting Season Proposals
« Reply #29 on: February 27, 2024, 02:07:43 PM »
Removing the lower jaw of a bobcat is ludicrous.  A bobcat is still on my bucket list and it would really piss me off if I finally got one and had to turn in the lower jaw....
RIP Colockumelk   :salute:

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Genesis 27:3
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