Primitive Weapons Ain't So Primitive Anymore....

[2MANY]

And the elk are paying the price.

When we have no more big bulls to hunt at least we will know why.

[yakimanoob]

When we have no more big bulls to hunt at least we will know why.

You think it will be because muzzleloaders and bows are too fancy?

[nwmein199]

I am interested to see the stats of bulls killed this year with general elk muzzleloader tags compared to previous years

[boneaddict]

I agree 2MANY, we have technologied our way out of hunting.

[wadu1]

I will continue to use my Hawkin side lock; they have been putting meat on the table for 160 years.

[Mtnwalker]

Already know of bulls taken beyond 350yds with the dialable 1x scopes. The only answer for technology- and this goes way beyond 1x scopes- will be further tag reductions. I don't think the big bulls are going to get hunted out for a while due to how low our tag allocations are (in central WA anyways) but hunters are so insanely efficient compared to 20 years ago its not even funny.

[pianoman9701]

There are many things that affect harvests. I would say that it's possible that with newer technology, there may be slightly higher harvest numbers (and I have no data to indicate that either way) but fewer lost animals (a number not included in any data). This is exemplified in the debate over lighted nocks several years ago. We have no way of knowing how many more critters have been recovered because of that advanced technology which were previously lost. I would venture to say that advanced tech may possibly have a positive effect on herd numbers. You know what has a definite negative effect? The three Ps: Poaching, Predators, and some of the People on the Commission.

[2MANY]

More hunters hunting every year with more efficient ways of killing and keeping the same seasons will have a negative effect.


Reducing more and more seasons is a coming.

[Feathernfurr]

I’ve been saying it for years. We’re in for a real shock in 10-15 years in the hunting world. I think the unfortunate truth is that as technology has increased the ethics have decreased. Too many people willing to test the limits of the new technology. My personal limitations with my compound bow are only 10-15 yards farther than my limits with my recurve. It’s not that I can’t shoot 70-80 yards consistently with my compound, it’s that I know there are too many factors that can go wrong in the time it takes for an arrow to fly that far.

Too many people trying to kill animals with rifles at 1000+ yards, and guys slinging arrows at 70-100. People here haven’t even really seen the crazy muzzleloaders yet. Guys back East and in the Midwest are shooting muzzleloaders that use pistol cartridges as primers and custom swaged bullets to shoot sub moa at 500 yards.


We’re losing track of what hunting is all about in the chase for fame and fortune on the backs of big bucks and bulls.

[baldopepper]

Son in law and friend took whitetails last week at 175 and 230 yards respectively.  I'm still shooting my old old Thompson Hawkins and they laughed at how close I had to let em come.  In my opinion you're correct, these aren't primitive weapons hunts any longer.  At least we muzzy guys only get a week not sure why the archery guys get a month and more late hunts.  The new bows are certainly not primitive weapons either. They're a long ways from the old recurve I used years ago.
 

[pianoman9701]

More hunters hunting every year with more efficient ways of killing and keeping the same seasons will have a negative effect.


Reducing more and more seasons is a coming.

There are actually fewer hunters every year. Our heritage is disappearing.

[JimmyHoffa]

More hunters hunting every year with more efficient ways of killing and keeping the same seasons will have a negative effect.


Reducing more and more seasons is a coming.

There are actually fewer hunters every year. Our heritage is disappearing.

More tech options should theoretically bring in even more people.

[elkboy]

So it seems people do agree that 1x scopes do increase the effective range of a muzzleloader- it seems that is being borne out by examples like Baldopepper's.  A number of us have claimed that on here for a while, I recall.   The pinpoint precision of a reticle, even unmagnified, will greatly increase the effective range in contrast with a front bead or fiber optic front sight.  I remember arguing against allowing the 1x scopes for that reason (with exception for older hunters- some compromise should be found in that situation), and against 209 primers, etc. 

We want all the advantages of more and more sophisticated technology, and somehow expect that the game resource won't be impacted?  Or that the state will not use the remaining variable at its disposal, which is season length?   I don't get it. 

[Feathernfurr]

I think the Hunter numbers is a tough argument to fall back on. I’ll link an article that has some points, but don’t have time to truly dive into the research right now. Regardless, I’m not sure we are losing our heritage in the argument of losing hunters, I think we are losing our heritage in the sense of what hunting is all about. Growing up, hunting was about the time in the field, the time listening to dads and grandpas tell stories of the “good old days”, the camaraderie, the food, the traditions and sharing the hunt. Shooting little bucks and does without shame and being happy as ever about it because you were filling a tag and taking meat home to put in the freezer. Sure, some of the older experienced guys were just looking for big bucks, but to most those were just dreams that fueled the hunt. To me we have lost a lot of that, the focus these days feels like it’s just about success and bragging rights. Don’t get me wrong, some places the small bucks and does need to be protected. I grew up in the southeast where there is an abundance of deer, there is no concern about numbers so that’s a convenience others aren’t afforded. Just a point that a lot of things have changed, I don’t think our heritage dies because hunters disappear, but rather that we lose sight of what it was all about in the first place.

https://realtree.com/deer-hunting/brow-tines-and-backstrap/are-hunter-numbers-actually-declining#:~:text=Reports%20as%20far%20back%20as,off%20suggested%20by%20the%20USFWS.

[full choke]

I think the Hunter numbers is a tough argument to fall back on. I’ll link an article that has some points, but don’t have time to truly dive into the research right now. Regardless, I’m not sure we are losing our heritage in the argument of losing hunters, I think we are losing our heritage in the sense of what hunting is all about. Growing up, hunting was about the time in the field, the time listening to dads and grandpas tell stories of the “good old days”, the camaraderie, the food, the traditions and sharing the hunt. Shooting little bucks and does without shame and being happy as ever about it because you were filling a tag and taking meat home to put in the freezer. Sure, some of the older experienced guys were just looking for big bucks, but to most those were just dreams that fueled the hunt. To me we have lost a lot of that, the focus these days feels like it’s just about success and bragging rights. Don’t get me wrong, some places the small bucks and does need to be protected. I grew up in the southeast where there is an abundance of deer, there is no concern about numbers so that’s a convenience others aren’t afforded. Just a point that a lot of things have changed, I don’t think our heritage dies because hunters disappear, but rather that we lose sight of what it was all about in the first place.

https://realtree.com/deer-hunting/brow-tines-and-backstrap/are-hunter-numbers-actually-declining#:~:text=Reports%20as%20far%20back%20as,off%20suggested%20by%20the%20USFWS.

Well said. Thank you.