collapse

Advertisement


Author Topic: Bergara vs fierce  (Read 6353 times)

Offline edaniels97

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Pilgrim
  • *
  • Join Date: May 2021
  • Posts: 13
  • Location: tenino
Bergara vs fierce
« on: December 05, 2024, 09:28:49 PM »
I am in the market for a new rifle and the fierce carbon rogue is what I was set on until I read into them more and have hardly found good reviews. Instead I have been thinking about getting the Bergara ridge carbon wilderness and putting a carbon stock on it. Does anybody have any experience with either that would lean me one way or the other?

If anyone has any other suggestions feel free to tell me. Looking for lighter weight, mid to close range in 7 prc. And no I don’t want to build a $4000 custom rifle, would like to stay 2k or below

Offline blumtnelkndeer

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Tracker
  • **
  • Join Date: Feb 2022
  • Posts: 51
  • Location: sewash
Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2024, 09:34:23 PM »
i would look into seekins Havak PH2 i think they are around 1800.

Offline jrebel

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (+24)
  • Explorer
  • ******
  • Join Date: Feb 2008
  • Posts: 11246
  • Location: East Wenatchee
Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2024, 09:36:46 PM »
Of the two....Bergara would get the nod.  That said, I think for the money you talking....there are a lot better choices out there. 

1.  Savage ultralite
2.  Weatherby 307 alpine CT
3.  Weatherby mark V back country carbon
4.  Seekins pro hunter (non carbon but super nice rifles and lite)
5.  Springfield waypoint (newer production hoping they fixed the firing pin issue)

Offline elkinrutdrivemenuts

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2011
  • Posts: 2274
Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2024, 10:39:15 PM »
Seekins PH2.  I know it’s not the two brands you’re asking about, just trying to save you from a mistake.  Seekins makes amazing rifles.

Offline edaniels97

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Pilgrim
  • *
  • Join Date: May 2021
  • Posts: 13
  • Location: tenino
Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2024, 04:53:27 AM »
Seekins PH2.  I know it’s not the two brands you’re asking about, just trying to save you from a mistake.  Seekins makes amazing rifles.

The only thing about the Seekins that I don’t like is that it’s a 26” barrel. That’s a long stick to hike around timber with

Offline edaniels97

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Pilgrim
  • *
  • Join Date: May 2021
  • Posts: 13
  • Location: tenino
Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2024, 06:10:19 AM »
Of the two....Bergara would get the nod.  That said, I think for the money you talking....there are a lot better choices out there. 

1.  Savage ultralite
2.  Weatherby 307 alpine CT
3.  Weatherby mark V back country carbon
4.  Seekins pro hunter (non carbon but super nice rifles and lite)
5.  Springfield waypoint (newer production hoping they fixed the firing pin issue)

I appreciate the input. Is there anything about the Bergara you don’t like?

I personally think the savage is super ugly and that really keeps me away from it haha the other one I have looked a lot at is the weatherby 307 ct

Offline jrebel

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (+24)
  • Explorer
  • ******
  • Join Date: Feb 2008
  • Posts: 11246
  • Location: East Wenatchee
Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2024, 06:58:14 AM »
Of the two....Bergara would get the nod.  That said, I think for the money you talking....there are a lot better choices out there. 

1.  Savage ultralite
2.  Weatherby 307 alpine CT
3.  Weatherby mark V back country carbon
4.  Seekins pro hunter (non carbon but super nice rifles and lite)
5.  Springfield waypoint (newer production hoping they fixed the firing pin issue)

I appreciate the input. Is there anything about the Bergara you don’t like?

I personally think the savage is super ugly and that really keeps me away from it haha the other one I have looked a lot at is the weatherby 307 ct

I have nothing against Bergara rifles.  I personally would not buy the bergara and then place it in another stock to shed weight (assuming that is why you would swap stocks).....sole reason being added price.  If I was going to do that, I would just buy one of the above.   I'm a savage fan, so I am a little biased.  I own multiple savages and with my handloads, they all shoot sub MOA and most consistently print half or better MOA groups.  That said, I know a lot of factory rifles....including Bergara.....can do the same. 

Based on the limited info in your original post, it looks like you are shopping for a mountain rifle that is light and easy to pack.  The list above would be my top choices for that purpose. 

What caliber?  What barrel length are you looking for?  What is the purpose?  Are you putting a can on it?.....if so, maybe the new sig cross trax in .308 with a can.  That would be a sweet set up.  Savage, Bergara and Weatherby all make chassis rifles with collapsible stocks with short barrels that would be great mountain rifles. 


Offline raydog

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Longhunter
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2012
  • Posts: 877
  • Location: Wetside
  • Groups: RMEF
Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2024, 07:52:42 AM »
I own both the ultralite and the ph2. Both are phenomenal rifles and both are better shooters than I am capable of keeping up with. That savage is a dream to carry, even with a can on the end.

No personal experience with bergara  or fierce.

Good luck, rifle shopping sure is fun!


Offline edaniels97

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Pilgrim
  • *
  • Join Date: May 2021
  • Posts: 13
  • Location: tenino
Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2024, 08:19:49 AM »
Of the two....Bergara would get the nod.  That said, I think for the money you talking....there are a lot better choices out there. 

1.  Savage ultralite
2.  Weatherby 307 alpine CT
3.  Weatherby mark V back country carbon
4.  Seekins pro hunter (non carbon but super nice rifles and lite)
5.  Springfield waypoint (newer production hoping they fixed the firing pin issue)

I appreciate the input. Is there anything about the Bergara you don’t like?

I personally think the savage is super ugly and that really keeps me away from it haha the other one I have looked a lot at is the weatherby 307 ct

I have nothing against Bergara rifles.  I personally would not buy the bergara and then place it in another stock to shed weight (assuming that is why you would swap stocks).....sole reason being added price.  If I was going to do that, I would just buy one of the above.   I'm a savage fan, so I am a little biased.  I own multiple savages and with my handloads, they all shoot sub MOA and most consistently print half or better MOA groups.  That said, I know a lot of factory rifles....including Bergara.....can do the same. 

Based on the limited info in your original post, it looks like you are shopping for a mountain rifle that is light and easy to pack.  The list above would be my top choices for that purpose. 

What caliber?  What barrel length are you looking for?  What is the purpose?  Are you putting a can on it?.....if so, maybe the new sig cross trax in .308 with a can.  That would be a sweet set up.  Savage, Bergara and Weatherby all make chassis rifles with collapsible stocks with short barrels that would be great mountain rifles.

I also own a savage in 6.5 cm and it is a great shooting rifle even with the flimsy factory stock but it is my wife’s deer rifle. I am looking for a 7 prc, 22-24” barrel(22 preferably) no can just a light weight, west side deer/elk mountain hunter with a more sporter style stock. 7mm is the one of only calibers I do not own. I have another rem700 in 6.5 that I plan on putting a folding xlr chassis on for backcountry /backpack hunting

Offline edaniels97

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Pilgrim
  • *
  • Join Date: May 2021
  • Posts: 13
  • Location: tenino
Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2024, 08:21:00 AM »
I own both the ultralite and the ph2. Both are phenomenal rifles and both are better shooters than I am capable of keeping up with. That savage is a dream to carry, even with a can on the end.

No personal experience with bergara  or fierce.

Good luck, rifle shopping sure is fun!

Thanks for the input!

Offline teanawayslayer

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (+9)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2010
  • Posts: 4134
  • Location: Eastside
Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2024, 08:21:22 AM »
I would look at the Seekins. Solid shooters as stated! I guarantee you won’t find a better warranty from any other manufacturer
Happiness is being in the woods!!!

Offline elkinrutdrivemenuts

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2011
  • Posts: 2274
Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2024, 08:30:11 AM »
Seekins PH2.  I know it’s not the two brands you’re asking about, just trying to save you from a mistake.  Seekins makes amazing rifles.

The only thing about the Seekins that I don’t like is that it’s a 26” barrel. That’s a long stick to hike around timber with

The Element model has a 22in barrel.  I went that route, its nice having a lightweight rifle and can shoot farther than I am willing to try.

Offline Mtnwalker

  • Political & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2015
  • Posts: 2157
  • Location: Selah
Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2024, 08:31:33 AM »
Fierce can be a lot of rifle for the money, or they can be garbage. Seems about 50/50 which one you get. Their CS appears to be doing a fairly decent job at the moment of making it right when guys do get a dud, have a couple buddies that have recently had to use their warranties. That being said, I personally would never give Fierce a dime of my money because I don't like what the owner stands for.

Don't know anything about Bergaras, if Seekins would put a shorter barrel on their PH2's that would be my vote sub 2k but the long actions are a tad on the long and heavy side for a mid range hunting rifle. I've owned 2 savages in my life and they both had major QC issues, I'll never own another. If I were wanting a sub 2k lightweight 7prc I'd buy a Tikka and have it re-barreled over any of the other mentioned options on here, but that's just one idiot's opinion  :twocents:

Offline jrebel

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (+24)
  • Explorer
  • ******
  • Join Date: Feb 2008
  • Posts: 11246
  • Location: East Wenatchee
Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2024, 08:45:04 AM »
Why do folks want short barrels on a 7 PRC?  Anything less than 24" and you are leaving velocity on the table.  24-26" with 26 being preferrable in my humble opinion.  The 7 prc is getting bad reviews for having anemic velocities at best.....this is partially due to overestimated velocities by Hornady factory ammo and also because all the rifle manufacturers are making these rifles with 20-22" barrels (I'm assuming because so many people hunt suppressed now days).  If I'm buying a magnum rifle, I want speed.....otherwise you are better off just buying a 7-08. 

If I was hell bent on a 20-22" 7prc....I would be shooting light weight mono's to pick up speed.  This is a double edged sword though and I guess to each their own. 

But I digress.....   :chuckle: :chuckle: 

Offline Mtnwalker

  • Political & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2015
  • Posts: 2157
  • Location: Selah
Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2024, 09:52:09 AM »
Why do folks want short barrels on a 7 PRC?  Anything less than 24" and you are leaving velocity on the table.  24-26" with 26 being preferrable in my humble opinion.  The 7 prc is getting bad reviews for having anemic velocities at best.....this is partially due to overestimated velocities by Hornady factory ammo and also because all the rifle manufacturers are making these rifles with 20-22" barrels (I'm assuming because so many people hunt suppressed now days).  If I'm buying a magnum rifle, I want speed.....otherwise you are better off just buying a 7-08. 

If I was hell bent on a 20-22" 7prc....I would be shooting light weight mono's to pick up speed.  This is a double edged sword though and I guess to each their own. 

But I digress.....   :chuckle: :chuckle:

Why would anybody want 1000yd+ capability in a handy, lightweight sub 40" rifle?  :chuckle:

Offline jrebel

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (+24)
  • Explorer
  • ******
  • Join Date: Feb 2008
  • Posts: 11246
  • Location: East Wenatchee
Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2024, 10:01:06 AM »
Why do folks want short barrels on a 7 PRC?  Anything less than 24" and you are leaving velocity on the table.  24-26" with 26 being preferrable in my humble opinion.  The 7 prc is getting bad reviews for having anemic velocities at best.....this is partially due to overestimated velocities by Hornady factory ammo and also because all the rifle manufacturers are making these rifles with 20-22" barrels (I'm assuming because so many people hunt suppressed now days).  If I'm buying a magnum rifle, I want speed.....otherwise you are better off just buying a 7-08. 

If I was hell bent on a 20-22" 7prc....I would be shooting light weight mono's to pick up speed.  This is a double edged sword though and I guess to each their own. 

But I digress.....   :chuckle: :chuckle:

Why would anybody want 1000yd+ capability in a handy, lightweight sub 40" rifle?  :chuckle:

I get it.....but for the chambering, it is already lethargic....why handicap it more with a short barrel.  If you want a short rifle for packing and you really like the 7 PRC, go with a folding chassis and keep a 26" barrel.  You can do this and still have a sub 7 lbs rifle. 

Offline Mtnwalker

  • Political & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2015
  • Posts: 2157
  • Location: Selah
Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2024, 10:11:55 AM »
Why do folks want short barrels on a 7 PRC?  Anything less than 24" and you are leaving velocity on the table.  24-26" with 26 being preferrable in my humble opinion.  The 7 prc is getting bad reviews for having anemic velocities at best.....this is partially due to overestimated velocities by Hornady factory ammo and also because all the rifle manufacturers are making these rifles with 20-22" barrels (I'm assuming because so many people hunt suppressed now days).  If I'm buying a magnum rifle, I want speed.....otherwise you are better off just buying a 7-08. 

If I was hell bent on a 20-22" 7prc....I would be shooting light weight mono's to pick up speed.  This is a double edged sword though and I guess to each their own. 

But I digress.....   :chuckle: :chuckle:

Why would anybody want 1000yd+ capability in a handy, lightweight sub 40" rifle?  :chuckle:

I get it.....but for the chambering, it is already lethargic....why handicap it more with a short barrel.  If you want a short rifle for packing and you really like the 7 PRC, go with a folding chassis and keep a 26" barrel.  You can do this and still have a sub 7 lbs rifle.

For under OP's 2k budget? Or you can spin your turret an extra moa to make up the velocity difference and call it a day. Like you said, to each their own  :tup:

Offline Lowedog

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2007
  • Posts: 2618
Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2024, 10:18:59 AM »
Why do folks want short barrels on a 7 PRC?  Anything less than 24" and you are leaving velocity on the table.  24-26" with 26 being preferrable in my humble opinion.  The 7 prc is getting bad reviews for having anemic velocities at best.....this is partially due to overestimated velocities by Hornady factory ammo and also because all the rifle manufacturers are making these rifles with 20-22" barrels (I'm assuming because so many people hunt suppressed now days).  If I'm buying a magnum rifle, I want speed.....otherwise you are better off just buying a 7-08. 

If I was hell bent on a 20-22" 7prc....I would be shooting light weight mono's to pick up speed.  This is a double edged sword though and I guess to each their own. 

But I digress.....   :chuckle: :chuckle:

You don't need a ton of velocity with the high BC bullets.  2800 is easily attainable with a 20-22" barrel with the 7PRC and the 175 ELDX ammo that is readily available.  I'm getting 2960 with a 22" barrel, Nosler 175 ABLR and RL26 

I just guessed at 3050 and the 139 LRX but the 175 ELDX quickly surpasses the lighter bullet in wind deflection while elevation is fairly even. 

I'll give up the velocity for the shorter, lighter more compact package any day.  Especially shooting suppressed and hunting timber/back country. 

175.0 gr. Hornady ELD-X (2841) - .284 (7mm) @ 2,800 fps
139.0 gr. Barnes LRX (30295) - .284 (7mm) @ 3,050 fps
Range   Velocity   Time of Flight   Elevation           Windage
(yards)   (fps)   (sec)   (moa)   (moa)
0   2,800 / 3,050   0.00 / 0.00   0.0 / 0.0           0.0 / 0.0
100   2,666 / 2,842   0.11 / 0.10   0.0 / 0.0           0.4 / 0.6
200   2,535 / 2,644   0.23 / 0.21       -1.6 / -1.3           0.9 / 1.2
300   2,408 / 2,454   0.35 / 0.33   -3.9 / -3.4           1.4 / 1.9
400   2,284 / 2,272   0.48 / 0.46   -6.4 / -5.8           1.9 / 2.6
500   2,165 / 2,097   0.61 / 0.59   -9.3 / -8.5           2.5 / 3.4
600   2,049 / 1,931   0.75 / 0.74   -12.3 / -11.6   3.1 / 4.3
700   1,936 / 1,773   0.90 / 0.91   -15.6 / -15.0   3.7 / 5.2
800   1,827 / 1,625   1.06 / 1.08   -19.2 / -19.0   4.3 / 6.2
"Ethical behavior is doing the right thing when no one else is watching- even when doing the wrong thing is legal."
— Aldo Leopold

Offline EnglishSetter

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Hunter
  • ***
  • Join Date: Nov 2024
  • Posts: 161
  • Location: Winlock
  • Groups: NRA
Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2024, 10:19:59 AM »
Haven't used either, but have had my eye on Christensen Arms Ridgeline FFT in 300 WSM.  They do offer 7 PRC.

I do plan on a can.

Just over the $2k MSRP for the rifle.


Offline jrebel

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (+24)
  • Explorer
  • ******
  • Join Date: Feb 2008
  • Posts: 11246
  • Location: East Wenatchee
Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2024, 10:27:02 AM »
Haven't used either, but have had my eye on Christensen Arms Ridgeline FFT in 300 WSM.  They do offer 7 PRC.

I do plan on a can.

Just over the $2k MSRP for the rifle.

If your entertaining a 300wsm and a Christensen rifle......I don't think you will find a better package deal than the one offered here.  I would have bought it already.....but I don't need another 300 wsm.   :chuckle: :chuckle: 

https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,289330.0.html


Offline b23

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2010
  • Posts: 3283
  • Location: Spokane Wa.
Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2024, 10:44:54 AM »
I get it.....but for the chambering, it is already lethargic....

Curious, why do you believe this and or what other .284/7mm are you comparing it to that makes you say the 7 PRC is lethargic or has anemic velocities??

Offline jrebel

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (+24)
  • Explorer
  • ******
  • Join Date: Feb 2008
  • Posts: 11246
  • Location: East Wenatchee
Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2024, 11:17:28 AM »
I get it.....but for the chambering, it is already lethargic....

Curious, why do you believe this and or what other .284/7mm are you comparing it to that makes you say the 7 PRC is lethargic or has anemic velocities??

Referencing the velocities the PRC chambering were marketed as and then in comparison the the old tried and true 7mm mag.  The 7 PRC was way over hyped and has proven not to live up to those velocities with factory offerings.  Now...if you reload, you can get more out of the chambering.  If I was going with a PRC chambering, it would be the 300 PRC as you can push heavier bullets equally as fast as lighter bullets in the 7 PRC. 

I'm not at all saying the 7 PRC is a bad cartridge..... I just think it fell short of all the hype.  I know there is a huge following for 7mm and the high BC bullets, but most folks don't shoot far enough for it to really matter.  If you are the average shooter / hunter that limits your range to 600 yards or less (most should limit their range to 300 or less), then it really doesn't matter.   Hell even at 1000 yards.......it probably doesn't matter.  I just think there are better 7mm offerings....my opinion. 

Offline follow maggie

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Posts: 3271
  • Location: Fargo
  • Just me, just being a nomad
Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #22 on: December 06, 2024, 11:19:47 AM »
I haven’t shot the rifles mentioned, but my hunting partner has the bergera. I don’t think it’s the one you’re looking at, but I can comment on the action & trigger, which I think would be the same. The action is crisp & smooth & locks up tight. The trigger isn’t the nicest one I’ve ever shot, but it’s a nice trigger. If I bought one, I wouldn’t be looking to change out the trigger. The rifle is a tack driver. It shoots tiny groups.

As far as the savage being ugly, I think most would agree with that. But if you like how savages shoot, you could get the savage  rifle & a Woox stock for it. It’d be a really nice looking rifle & probably be a comparable amount of money to some of the others mentioned.

Offline follow maggie

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Posts: 3271
  • Location: Fargo
  • Just me, just being a nomad
Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #23 on: December 06, 2024, 11:23:40 AM »
I get it.....but for the chambering, it is already lethargic....

Curious, why do you believe this and or what other .284/7mm are you comparing it to that makes you say the 7 PRC is lethargic or has anemic velocities??

Referencing the velocities the PRC chambering were marketed as and then in comparison the the old tried and true 7mm mag.  The 7 PRC was way over hyped and has proven not to live up to those velocities with factory offerings.  Now...if you reload, you can get more out of the chambering.  If I was going with a PRC chambering, it would be the 300 PRC as you can push heavier bullets equally as fast as lighter bullets in the 7 PRC. 

I'm not at all saying the 7 PRC is a bad cartridge..... I just think it fell short of all the hype.  I know there is a huge following for 7mm and the high BC bullets, but most folks don't shoot far enough for it to really matter.  If you are the average shooter / hunter that limits your range to 600 yards or less (most should limit their range to 300 or less), then it really doesn't matter.   Hell even at 1000 yards.......it probably doesn't matter.  I just think there are better 7mm offerings....my opinion.

I’ve seen a lot of reviews that the velocity of 7 prc is well below the published data. Specifically the Hornady ammo.

Offline Mtnwalker

  • Political & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2015
  • Posts: 2157
  • Location: Selah
Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #24 on: December 06, 2024, 11:39:17 AM »
I think Hornady was having a lot of QC issues with their 7prc ammo there for a while. All the way down to bullet diameter issues, inconsistent charges, crazy pressure spikes, all kinds of stuff. Wouldn't surprise me if they backed off their loads for liability purposes until things got sorted out

Offline follow maggie

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Posts: 3271
  • Location: Fargo
  • Just me, just being a nomad
Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #25 on: December 06, 2024, 12:17:28 PM »
That would make sense.

Offline b23

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2010
  • Posts: 3283
  • Location: Spokane Wa.
Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #26 on: December 06, 2024, 12:22:02 PM »
I get it.....but for the chambering, it is already lethargic....

Curious, why do you believe this and or what other .284/7mm are you comparing it to that makes you say the 7 PRC is lethargic or has anemic velocities??

Referencing the velocities the PRC chambering were marketed as and then in comparison the the old tried and true 7mm mag.  The 7 PRC was way over hyped and has proven not to live up to those velocities with factory offerings.  Now...if you reload, you can get more out of the chambering.  If I was going with a PRC chambering, it would be the 300 PRC as you can push heavier bullets equally as fast as lighter bullets in the 7 PRC. 

I'm not at all saying the 7 PRC is a bad cartridge..... I just think it fell short of all the hype.  I know there is a huge following for 7mm and the high BC bullets, but most folks don't shoot far enough for it to really matter.  If you are the average shooter / hunter that limits your range to 600 yards or less (most should limit their range to 300 or less), then it really doesn't matter.   Hell even at 1000 yards.......it probably doesn't matter.  I just think there are better 7mm offerings....my opinion.

I’ve seen a lot of reviews that the velocity of 7 prc is well below the published data. Specifically the Hornady ammo.

That's interesting you both say that because the majority of what I've read was the factory Hornady 180 ELD-M and 175 ELD-X  7 PRC ammo with equal barrel lengths was coming in within 100 fps of what was advertised on the box.  I do recall reading about one maybe two guys that were getting a fair bit less then that but I don't recall the particulars to what they said and the gun/barrel length they were using.

To some 100 fps may sound like a substantial difference but considering all the variables that affect velocity it really isn't that much.

I can't say that I've shot a lot of factory ammo but I've shot a variety of different factory ammo in different rifles over the years and with the exception of Hornady's 6.5 PRC 147 ELD-M ammo which in my rifle shoots crazy good and is actually slightly faster none of it matched the advertised velocity on the box.  I had a Wby Accumark 338-378 years ago that I bought some Nosler Custom 225gr AB ammo for that was per the box supposed to be 3250fps.  It barely made 3000fps which was obviously well below what they were claiming.  It shot well so that was good but it was much slower then they claimed.  I'll give Nosler the benefit of the doubt and say I don't believe they lied about the velocity and I'm sure in their test gun they probably got that velocity but in mine with the same length barrel it was quite a bit slower.  Maybe their rifle had a lot less freebore then my factory Weatherby which with the same ammo would be slower in my rifle and that's just one of many possibilities.

Offline Doublelunger

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2011
  • Posts: 1145
  • Location: Pacific NW
Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #27 on: December 06, 2024, 12:42:38 PM »
Why do folks want short barrels on a 7 PRC?  Anything less than 24" and you are leaving velocity on the table.  24-26" with 26 being preferrable in my humble opinion.  The 7 prc is getting bad reviews for having anemic velocities at best.....this is partially due to overestimated velocities by Hornady factory ammo and also because all the rifle manufacturers are making these rifles with 20-22" barrels (I'm assuming because so many people hunt suppressed now days).  If I'm buying a magnum rifle, I want speed.....otherwise you are better off just buying a 7-08. 

If I was hell bent on a 20-22" 7prc....I would be shooting light weight mono's to pick up speed.  This is a double edged sword though and I guess to each their own. 

But I digress.....   :chuckle: :chuckle:

You don't need a ton of velocity with the high BC bullets.  2800 is easily attainable with a 20-22" barrel with the 7PRC and the 175 ELDX ammo that is readily available.  I'm getting 2960 with a 22" barrel, Nosler 175 ABLR and RL26 

I just guessed at 3050 and the 139 LRX but the 175 ELDX quickly surpasses the lighter bullet in wind deflection while elevation is fairly even. 

I'll give up the velocity for the shorter, lighter more compact package any day.  Especially shooting suppressed and hunting timber/back country. 

175.0 gr. Hornady ELD-X (2841) - .284 (7mm) @ 2,800 fps
139.0 gr. Barnes LRX (30295) - .284 (7mm) @ 3,050 fps
Range   Velocity   Time of Flight   Elevation           Windage
(yards)   (fps)   (sec)   (moa)   (moa)
0   2,800 / 3,050   0.00 / 0.00   0.0 / 0.0           0.0 / 0.0
100   2,666 / 2,842   0.11 / 0.10   0.0 / 0.0           0.4 / 0.6
200   2,535 / 2,644   0.23 / 0.21       -1.6 / -1.3           0.9 / 1.2
300   2,408 / 2,454   0.35 / 0.33   -3.9 / -3.4           1.4 / 1.9
400   2,284 / 2,272   0.48 / 0.46   -6.4 / -5.8           1.9 / 2.6
500   2,165 / 2,097   0.61 / 0.59   -9.3 / -8.5           2.5 / 3.4
600   2,049 / 1,931   0.75 / 0.74   -12.3 / -11.6   3.1 / 4.3
700   1,936 / 1,773   0.90 / 0.91   -15.6 / -15.0   3.7 / 5.2
800   1,827 / 1,625   1.06 / 1.08   -19.2 / -19.0   4.3 / 6.2

My Seekins havok element in 7prc with 22" barrel is pushing 180 bergers just over 3,000 feet per second. Plenty good for me without having an obnoxiously long rifle.

Offline Lowedog

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2007
  • Posts: 2618
Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #28 on: December 06, 2024, 12:53:50 PM »
I hadn't heard of any issues with bullets, but Hornady definitely wasn't open regarding velocity until enough pressure was put on them that they had to release a statement about why their velocities weren't as advertised.  I know Ron Spomer talked about it on one of his podcasts and read the email he received from Hornady explaining their issue.

The powder they used in developing the cartridge (most likely RL26) become unavailable to them, so they had to find something else.  Apparently, they settled on something that met their needs for accuracy but wouldn't achieve the same velocity. 

Where they really failed their customers is they left the 3000fps label on the box and didn't put this info out until enough people were talking about it that they had.  They still haven't changed the velocity to what they are actually getting with this substitute. 

I have read that the Federal ammo loaded with the 175 ELDX does get really close to that 3000fps mark.  Makes sense because I have read that both Alliant and Federal are owned by the same company. 

Early lots of Hornady 7mm PRC do come really close to those numbers.  I started buying ammo when it first hit the shelves because I knew I was going to have a rifle in this cartridge.  I have several boxes with early lot numbers, and they shoot around 2950 with a 22" barrel. 
"Ethical behavior is doing the right thing when no one else is watching- even when doing the wrong thing is legal."
— Aldo Leopold

Offline Lowedog

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2007
  • Posts: 2618
Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #29 on: December 06, 2024, 12:57:32 PM »
BTW, didn't mean to hi-jack your thread.  If it were me, I would be looking really hard at the Seekins. 
"Ethical behavior is doing the right thing when no one else is watching- even when doing the wrong thing is legal."
— Aldo Leopold

Offline b23

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2010
  • Posts: 3283
  • Location: Spokane Wa.
Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #30 on: December 06, 2024, 01:06:05 PM »
I have read that the Federal ammo loaded with the 175 ELDX does get really close to that 3000fps mark.

Wonder if it's truly Federal manufacturing or if it's actually made by Hornady for Federal.  Next time I'm at Cabela's or SW I'll have to look to see if they have some Federal 7 PRC ammo and take a quick look at the Lot# to see if it's a Hornady sequence # or a actual Federal #.  I'm kind of curious now so I see a trip to one or the other in my near future.  :chuckle:

These companies contract with one another at times to make certain ammo for them and put the same ammo but with the other companies head stamped brass and box.  I don't know that this is the case with this particular 7 PRC ammo but it's easy enough to figure out.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2024, 01:46:35 PM by b23 »

Offline Lowedog

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2007
  • Posts: 2618
Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #31 on: December 06, 2024, 01:22:31 PM »
"When word came across the wires on October 16, 2023, that Vista Outdoor had entered into an agreement to sell off its Sporting Products business to Czechoslovak Group (CSG) — a company headquartered in Prague, Czech Republic — it created considerable buzz in our corner of the shooting sports industry, and understandably so. Vista Outdoor owns not only ammunition reloading mainstays like Speer (bullets and cartridges), CCI (primers and cartridges), and Alliant Powder brands, but also the powerhouse cartridge brands Federal and Remington along with specialty shotshell brands Estate Cartridge and Hevi-Shot. Together, these brands represent a large segment of the ammunition and component business our community has depended on for decades. "

https://shoot-on.com/update-czech-company-to-purchase-major-american-ammunition-brands/
"Ethical behavior is doing the right thing when no one else is watching- even when doing the wrong thing is legal."
— Aldo Leopold

Offline JJB11B

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Sep 2010
  • Posts: 4496
Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #32 on: December 06, 2024, 05:21:36 PM »
I am in the market for a new rifle and the fierce carbon rogue is what I was set on until I read into them more and have hardly found good reviews. Instead I have been thinking about getting the Bergara ridge carbon wilderness and putting a carbon stock on it. Does anybody have any experience with either that would lean me one way or the other?

If anyone has any other suggestions feel free to tell me. Looking for lighter weight, mid to close range in 7 prc. And no I don’t want to build a $4000 custom rifle, would like to stay 2k or below
I just bought that rifle in 300 win mag and I really like it! Saved a lot of money I can use to put better glass on it and develop a good load to hunt with it. It has A 24” barrel
"Pain heals, chicks dig scars, glory lasts forever."
Shane Falco

Offline safehunter

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Hunter
  • ***
  • Join Date: Sep 2013
  • Posts: 135
  • Location: SKC
  • Groups: NRA,WHEIA
Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #33 on: December 07, 2024, 09:48:54 AM »
 I have to agree with Seekins also!  I have had the new SLAM 7prc on order since Aug. only with a 24" barrel after lots of comparisons.
 
           

Offline edaniels97

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Pilgrim
  • *
  • Join Date: May 2021
  • Posts: 13
  • Location: tenino
Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #34 on: December 07, 2024, 10:36:32 AM »
BTW, didn't mean to hi-jack your thread.  If it were me, I would be looking really hard at the Seekins.

No worries! All is helpful in my decision making. I have had the ph2 “in my cart” for about 2 months but I just can’t get myself talked into buying another long barreled vertical grip rifle. A buddy of mine talked me into rifle hunting for elk this year and being that i hung my 270 up for good and I don’t trust a 6.5 on an elk I ended packing around my xbolt lr max in 300rum. Even though I’ve packed that rifle countless miles in the back country it’s clearly not a good one for short range timber hunting which is what led me to looking at a shorter barrel and sporter style stock. Also like I said I don’t own a 7mm and I feel that the 7prc, even if it’s slightly, is superior to the 7 rem. Ammo will be hand loaded unless I end up with a rifle that shoots factory really well.


Offline teanawayslayer

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (+9)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2010
  • Posts: 4134
  • Location: Eastside
Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #35 on: December 07, 2024, 12:13:10 PM »
BTW, didn't mean to hi-jack your thread.  If it were me, I would be looking really hard at the Seekins.

No worries! All is helpful in my decision making. I have had  :twocents:the ph2 “in my cart” for about 2 months but I just can’t get myself talked :twocents: into buying another long barreled vertical grip rifle. A buddy of mine talked me into rifle hunting for elk this year and being that i hung my 270 up for good and I don’t trust a 6.5 on an elk I ended packing around my xbolt lr max in 300rum. Even though I’ve packed that rifle countless miles in the back country it’s clearly not a good one for short range timber hunting which is what led me to looking at a shorter barrel and sporter style stock. Also like I said I don’t own a 7mm and I feel that the 7prc, even if it’s slightly, is superior to the 7 rem. Ammo will be hand loaded unless I end up with a rifle that shoots factory really well.
if your not wanting the long barrel get the element. 22” barrel and long actions weigh in at 6#
Happiness is being in the woods!!!

Offline Lowedog

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2007
  • Posts: 2618
Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #36 on: December 07, 2024, 03:52:57 PM »
I have to agree with Seekins also!  I have had the new SLAM 7prc on order since Aug. only with a 24" barrel after lots of comparisons.
 
         

We need a review once you have that and get some time with it.  That rifle looks like the ultimate back country rifle. 
"Ethical behavior is doing the right thing when no one else is watching- even when doing the wrong thing is legal."
— Aldo Leopold

Offline fowl smacker

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2013
  • Posts: 2187
  • Location: Castle Rock
  • Groups: DU, Delta Waterfowl, RMEF, Friends of the Cowlitz
Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #37 on: December 07, 2024, 06:38:06 PM »
Myself and 2 of my buddies both have Fierce 7mm PRC's.  I have the Carbon Rage, they both have the Carbon Rogue.  They flat out shoot! I've had mine for 2 years now.  I shoot the factory Hornady Precision 175 eldx out of mine and at 100 yards I shoot one ragged hole.  Killed my whitetail last yr at 550yds even and killed a Mule deer this yr at 684yards, a blacktail at 378yds.  It is the most accurate hunting rifle I've owned and it's easy to carry.  I have never owned or shot a Bergara, but I would recommend the Fierce.  I'll post a pic of this yrs Mule deer.

Online pickardjw

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2019
  • Posts: 1637
  • Location: Pendleton, OR
Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #38 on: December 07, 2024, 07:07:03 PM »
Not hard to find horror stories with Fierce. I sure wouldn't buy one.

https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/fierce-firearms-disaster.293232/

Offline fowl smacker

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2013
  • Posts: 2187
  • Location: Castle Rock
  • Groups: DU, Delta Waterfowl, RMEF, Friends of the Cowlitz
Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #39 on: December 07, 2024, 07:38:43 PM »
Not hard to find horror stories with Fierce. I sure wouldn't buy one.

https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/fierce-firearms-disaster.293232/
Assuming they're legit horror stories.

Offline time2hunt

  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2010
  • Posts: 2695
  • Location: Ellensburg
Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #40 on: December 08, 2024, 03:44:09 AM »
Fierce had some issue around 2020 with Poor machining and gun smithing and customer service . I have a 6.5 PRC Carbon fury that I finally made them re barrel it. That being said it will now  shot a group of 5 and I can cover it with a nickle at 100 yards. The last I read Christiansen arms was having the same issues.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Local 3482

Online pickardjw

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2019
  • Posts: 1637
  • Location: Pendleton, OR
Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #41 on: December 08, 2024, 02:57:41 PM »
Not hard to find horror stories with Fierce. I sure wouldn't buy one.

https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/fierce-firearms-disaster.293232/
Assuming they're legit horror stories.

Where there’s smoke there’s fire…and there is a lot of smoke in that thread alone, not to mention dozens of others.

Offline fowl smacker

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2013
  • Posts: 2187
  • Location: Castle Rock
  • Groups: DU, Delta Waterfowl, RMEF, Friends of the Cowlitz
Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #42 on: December 08, 2024, 09:19:34 PM »
Not hard to find horror stories with Fierce. I sure wouldn't buy one.

https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/fierce-firearms-disaster.293232/
Assuming they're legit horror stories.

Where there’s smoke there’s fire…and there is a lot of smoke in that thread alone, not to mention dozens of others.
Guess all 3 of us got unicorns then.  :dunno:

Offline elkrack

  • Framer
  • Trade Count: (+18)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2009
  • Posts: 3659
  • Location: bonney lake
Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #43 on: December 08, 2024, 11:10:57 PM »
Not hard to find horror stories with Fierce. I sure wouldn't buy one.

https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/fierce-firearms-disaster.293232/
Assuming they're legit horror stories.

Where there’s smoke there’s fire…and there is a lot of smoke in that thread alone, not to mention dozens of others.
Guess all 3 of us got unicorns then.  :dunno:

No my buddy has one that shoots really well and functions perfectly. I’m sure they have tightened up their quality control
life's tough its tougher if your stupid (john wayne)

If you ain’t first your last☝🏻

Offline edaniels97

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Pilgrim
  • *
  • Join Date: May 2021
  • Posts: 13
  • Location: tenino
Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #44 on: December 09, 2024, 08:06:33 PM »
Not hard to find horror stories with Fierce. I sure wouldn't buy one.

https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/fierce-firearms-disaster.293232/
Assuming they're legit horror stories.

Where there’s smoke there’s fire…and there is a lot of smoke in that thread alone, not to mention dozens of others.
Guess all 3 of us got unicorns then.  :dunno:

No my buddy has one that shoots really well and functions perfectly. I’m sure they have tightened up their quality control

A friend of mine had a fierce and he said it was one of the best rifles he’s had. I feel like you will always read more bad reviews than you will good on anything but man it sure does make it tough to believe otherwise when there are so many complaints about them.

Does anyone have anything to say about the weatherby 307 alpine ct?

Offline jrebel

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (+24)
  • Explorer
  • ******
  • Join Date: Feb 2008
  • Posts: 11246
  • Location: East Wenatchee
Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #45 on: December 09, 2024, 08:13:53 PM »
Other than it will likely be one of my next rifles.....NO!!  The Weatherby 307 alpine CT sure looks like a sweet rifle.  Reviews look very promising too. 

Online pickardjw

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2019
  • Posts: 1637
  • Location: Pendleton, OR
Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #46 on: December 09, 2024, 09:05:04 PM »
Not hard to find horror stories with Fierce. I sure wouldn't buy one.

https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/fierce-firearms-disaster.293232/
Assuming they're legit horror stories.

Where there’s smoke there’s fire…and there is a lot of smoke in that thread alone, not to mention dozens of others.
Guess all 3 of us got unicorns then.  :dunno:

I'm sure they make some nice rifles. Just sharing some info on other people's experiences with the company...poor QC and extremely poor C/S seems to be a popular sentiment.

I open the bolt and look down the barrel and the gun had NO rifling...I call Fierce and have a somewhat heated discussion with John Mogle (owner) and at one point he laughs and says get a lawyer and have fun...

Not hard to imagine Mogle saying that if you read more about him.

Offline time2hunt

  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2010
  • Posts: 2695
  • Location: Ellensburg
Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #47 on: December 09, 2024, 09:35:00 PM »
Not hard to find horror stories with Fierce. I sure wouldn't buy one.

https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/fierce-firearms-disaster.293232/
Assuming they're legit horror stories.

Where there’s smoke there’s fire…and there is a lot of smoke in that thread alone, not to mention dozens of others.
Guess all 3 of us got unicorns then.  :dunno:

I'm sure they make some nice rifles. Just sharing some info on other people's experiences with the company...poor QC and extremely poor C/S seems to be a popular sentiment.

I open the bolt and look down the barrel and the gun had NO rifling...I call Fierce and have a somewhat heated discussion with John Mogle (owner) and at one point he laughs and says get a lawyer and have fun...

Not hard to imagine Mogle saying that if you read more about him.
As posted above this was a issue 3 years ago. They have corrected there CS and quality control issues the last year or so. No matter which gun maker you choose there’s always a risk for potential issues. The Weatherby Ti would be my choice of a new light weight rifle.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Local 3482

Offline goosehunter12

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Tracker
  • **
  • Join Date: May 2011
  • Posts: 55
  • Location: soap lake, wa
Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #48 on: December 10, 2024, 07:08:30 AM »
I have a Carbon Rival in 280AI, purchased in Jan 2023 and it shoots great!  It was the model right before they switched to the XP and FP, didn't really like the floor plate, now have it in an XLR element 4.0 mg chassis.  Have never owned or shot a Bergara yet.

 


* Advertisement

* Recent Topics

First attempt at polish sausages by Timberstalker
[Today at 08:14:32 AM]


Gots me a new/old rockchuck rifle coming by Macs B
[Today at 07:47:25 AM]


Bobcat or Lynx by time2hunt
[Today at 07:39:38 AM]


Novagrade digiscoping adapter, absolutely awesome. by syoungs
[Today at 07:04:50 AM]


Truck help by Magnum_Willys
[Today at 06:57:46 AM]


USFS Layoffs by Magnum_Willys
[Today at 06:46:10 AM]


WA Bucket List….Mule Deer Permit by TeacherMan
[Yesterday at 11:03:50 PM]


Resign? by EnglishSetter
[Yesterday at 09:42:01 PM]


Lets see them Big 3 points by tmike
[Yesterday at 09:33:44 PM]


SENATE TO VOTE ON INSLEE'S COMMISIONERS - NEED ACTION NOW! by Sundance
[Yesterday at 09:07:37 PM]


Lake Sonoma bass by HUNTINCOUPLE
[Yesterday at 09:06:41 PM]


375 by poor_choices
[Yesterday at 08:33:53 PM]


Otter, population drop? by UrbanTrapper
[Yesterday at 08:30:27 PM]


Oregon Spring Bear.....Seed number by ShaneTyTrey
[Yesterday at 08:13:31 PM]


Fur Sale (Athol, ID) by UrbanTrapper
[Yesterday at 08:07:56 PM]


USFWS Director by Tbar
[Yesterday at 07:28:17 PM]


Sportsman’s Muzzloader Selection by MADMAX
[Yesterday at 06:48:32 PM]


Wts Hornady Precision Hunter 7prc by teanawayslayer
[Yesterday at 06:41:18 PM]

SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2025, SimplePortal