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Author Topic: Bergara vs fierce  (Read 6350 times)

Offline jrebel

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Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2024, 10:01:06 AM »
Why do folks want short barrels on a 7 PRC?  Anything less than 24" and you are leaving velocity on the table.  24-26" with 26 being preferrable in my humble opinion.  The 7 prc is getting bad reviews for having anemic velocities at best.....this is partially due to overestimated velocities by Hornady factory ammo and also because all the rifle manufacturers are making these rifles with 20-22" barrels (I'm assuming because so many people hunt suppressed now days).  If I'm buying a magnum rifle, I want speed.....otherwise you are better off just buying a 7-08. 

If I was hell bent on a 20-22" 7prc....I would be shooting light weight mono's to pick up speed.  This is a double edged sword though and I guess to each their own. 

But I digress.....   :chuckle: :chuckle:

Why would anybody want 1000yd+ capability in a handy, lightweight sub 40" rifle?  :chuckle:

I get it.....but for the chambering, it is already lethargic....why handicap it more with a short barrel.  If you want a short rifle for packing and you really like the 7 PRC, go with a folding chassis and keep a 26" barrel.  You can do this and still have a sub 7 lbs rifle. 

Offline Mtnwalker

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Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2024, 10:11:55 AM »
Why do folks want short barrels on a 7 PRC?  Anything less than 24" and you are leaving velocity on the table.  24-26" with 26 being preferrable in my humble opinion.  The 7 prc is getting bad reviews for having anemic velocities at best.....this is partially due to overestimated velocities by Hornady factory ammo and also because all the rifle manufacturers are making these rifles with 20-22" barrels (I'm assuming because so many people hunt suppressed now days).  If I'm buying a magnum rifle, I want speed.....otherwise you are better off just buying a 7-08. 

If I was hell bent on a 20-22" 7prc....I would be shooting light weight mono's to pick up speed.  This is a double edged sword though and I guess to each their own. 

But I digress.....   :chuckle: :chuckle:

Why would anybody want 1000yd+ capability in a handy, lightweight sub 40" rifle?  :chuckle:

I get it.....but for the chambering, it is already lethargic....why handicap it more with a short barrel.  If you want a short rifle for packing and you really like the 7 PRC, go with a folding chassis and keep a 26" barrel.  You can do this and still have a sub 7 lbs rifle.

For under OP's 2k budget? Or you can spin your turret an extra moa to make up the velocity difference and call it a day. Like you said, to each their own  :tup:

Offline Lowedog

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Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2024, 10:18:59 AM »
Why do folks want short barrels on a 7 PRC?  Anything less than 24" and you are leaving velocity on the table.  24-26" with 26 being preferrable in my humble opinion.  The 7 prc is getting bad reviews for having anemic velocities at best.....this is partially due to overestimated velocities by Hornady factory ammo and also because all the rifle manufacturers are making these rifles with 20-22" barrels (I'm assuming because so many people hunt suppressed now days).  If I'm buying a magnum rifle, I want speed.....otherwise you are better off just buying a 7-08. 

If I was hell bent on a 20-22" 7prc....I would be shooting light weight mono's to pick up speed.  This is a double edged sword though and I guess to each their own. 

But I digress.....   :chuckle: :chuckle:

You don't need a ton of velocity with the high BC bullets.  2800 is easily attainable with a 20-22" barrel with the 7PRC and the 175 ELDX ammo that is readily available.  I'm getting 2960 with a 22" barrel, Nosler 175 ABLR and RL26 

I just guessed at 3050 and the 139 LRX but the 175 ELDX quickly surpasses the lighter bullet in wind deflection while elevation is fairly even. 

I'll give up the velocity for the shorter, lighter more compact package any day.  Especially shooting suppressed and hunting timber/back country. 

175.0 gr. Hornady ELD-X (2841) - .284 (7mm) @ 2,800 fps
139.0 gr. Barnes LRX (30295) - .284 (7mm) @ 3,050 fps
Range   Velocity   Time of Flight   Elevation           Windage
(yards)   (fps)   (sec)   (moa)   (moa)
0   2,800 / 3,050   0.00 / 0.00   0.0 / 0.0           0.0 / 0.0
100   2,666 / 2,842   0.11 / 0.10   0.0 / 0.0           0.4 / 0.6
200   2,535 / 2,644   0.23 / 0.21       -1.6 / -1.3           0.9 / 1.2
300   2,408 / 2,454   0.35 / 0.33   -3.9 / -3.4           1.4 / 1.9
400   2,284 / 2,272   0.48 / 0.46   -6.4 / -5.8           1.9 / 2.6
500   2,165 / 2,097   0.61 / 0.59   -9.3 / -8.5           2.5 / 3.4
600   2,049 / 1,931   0.75 / 0.74   -12.3 / -11.6   3.1 / 4.3
700   1,936 / 1,773   0.90 / 0.91   -15.6 / -15.0   3.7 / 5.2
800   1,827 / 1,625   1.06 / 1.08   -19.2 / -19.0   4.3 / 6.2
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Offline EnglishSetter

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Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2024, 10:19:59 AM »
Haven't used either, but have had my eye on Christensen Arms Ridgeline FFT in 300 WSM.  They do offer 7 PRC.

I do plan on a can.

Just over the $2k MSRP for the rifle.


Offline jrebel

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Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2024, 10:27:02 AM »
Haven't used either, but have had my eye on Christensen Arms Ridgeline FFT in 300 WSM.  They do offer 7 PRC.

I do plan on a can.

Just over the $2k MSRP for the rifle.

If your entertaining a 300wsm and a Christensen rifle......I don't think you will find a better package deal than the one offered here.  I would have bought it already.....but I don't need another 300 wsm.   :chuckle: :chuckle: 

https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,289330.0.html


Offline b23

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Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2024, 10:44:54 AM »
I get it.....but for the chambering, it is already lethargic....

Curious, why do you believe this and or what other .284/7mm are you comparing it to that makes you say the 7 PRC is lethargic or has anemic velocities??

Offline jrebel

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Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2024, 11:17:28 AM »
I get it.....but for the chambering, it is already lethargic....

Curious, why do you believe this and or what other .284/7mm are you comparing it to that makes you say the 7 PRC is lethargic or has anemic velocities??

Referencing the velocities the PRC chambering were marketed as and then in comparison the the old tried and true 7mm mag.  The 7 PRC was way over hyped and has proven not to live up to those velocities with factory offerings.  Now...if you reload, you can get more out of the chambering.  If I was going with a PRC chambering, it would be the 300 PRC as you can push heavier bullets equally as fast as lighter bullets in the 7 PRC. 

I'm not at all saying the 7 PRC is a bad cartridge..... I just think it fell short of all the hype.  I know there is a huge following for 7mm and the high BC bullets, but most folks don't shoot far enough for it to really matter.  If you are the average shooter / hunter that limits your range to 600 yards or less (most should limit their range to 300 or less), then it really doesn't matter.   Hell even at 1000 yards.......it probably doesn't matter.  I just think there are better 7mm offerings....my opinion. 

Offline follow maggie

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Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #22 on: December 06, 2024, 11:19:47 AM »
I haven’t shot the rifles mentioned, but my hunting partner has the bergera. I don’t think it’s the one you’re looking at, but I can comment on the action & trigger, which I think would be the same. The action is crisp & smooth & locks up tight. The trigger isn’t the nicest one I’ve ever shot, but it’s a nice trigger. If I bought one, I wouldn’t be looking to change out the trigger. The rifle is a tack driver. It shoots tiny groups.

As far as the savage being ugly, I think most would agree with that. But if you like how savages shoot, you could get the savage  rifle & a Woox stock for it. It’d be a really nice looking rifle & probably be a comparable amount of money to some of the others mentioned.

Offline follow maggie

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Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #23 on: December 06, 2024, 11:23:40 AM »
I get it.....but for the chambering, it is already lethargic....

Curious, why do you believe this and or what other .284/7mm are you comparing it to that makes you say the 7 PRC is lethargic or has anemic velocities??

Referencing the velocities the PRC chambering were marketed as and then in comparison the the old tried and true 7mm mag.  The 7 PRC was way over hyped and has proven not to live up to those velocities with factory offerings.  Now...if you reload, you can get more out of the chambering.  If I was going with a PRC chambering, it would be the 300 PRC as you can push heavier bullets equally as fast as lighter bullets in the 7 PRC. 

I'm not at all saying the 7 PRC is a bad cartridge..... I just think it fell short of all the hype.  I know there is a huge following for 7mm and the high BC bullets, but most folks don't shoot far enough for it to really matter.  If you are the average shooter / hunter that limits your range to 600 yards or less (most should limit their range to 300 or less), then it really doesn't matter.   Hell even at 1000 yards.......it probably doesn't matter.  I just think there are better 7mm offerings....my opinion.

I’ve seen a lot of reviews that the velocity of 7 prc is well below the published data. Specifically the Hornady ammo.

Offline Mtnwalker

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Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #24 on: December 06, 2024, 11:39:17 AM »
I think Hornady was having a lot of QC issues with their 7prc ammo there for a while. All the way down to bullet diameter issues, inconsistent charges, crazy pressure spikes, all kinds of stuff. Wouldn't surprise me if they backed off their loads for liability purposes until things got sorted out

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Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #25 on: December 06, 2024, 12:17:28 PM »
That would make sense.

Offline b23

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Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #26 on: December 06, 2024, 12:22:02 PM »
I get it.....but for the chambering, it is already lethargic....

Curious, why do you believe this and or what other .284/7mm are you comparing it to that makes you say the 7 PRC is lethargic or has anemic velocities??

Referencing the velocities the PRC chambering were marketed as and then in comparison the the old tried and true 7mm mag.  The 7 PRC was way over hyped and has proven not to live up to those velocities with factory offerings.  Now...if you reload, you can get more out of the chambering.  If I was going with a PRC chambering, it would be the 300 PRC as you can push heavier bullets equally as fast as lighter bullets in the 7 PRC. 

I'm not at all saying the 7 PRC is a bad cartridge..... I just think it fell short of all the hype.  I know there is a huge following for 7mm and the high BC bullets, but most folks don't shoot far enough for it to really matter.  If you are the average shooter / hunter that limits your range to 600 yards or less (most should limit their range to 300 or less), then it really doesn't matter.   Hell even at 1000 yards.......it probably doesn't matter.  I just think there are better 7mm offerings....my opinion.

I’ve seen a lot of reviews that the velocity of 7 prc is well below the published data. Specifically the Hornady ammo.

That's interesting you both say that because the majority of what I've read was the factory Hornady 180 ELD-M and 175 ELD-X  7 PRC ammo with equal barrel lengths was coming in within 100 fps of what was advertised on the box.  I do recall reading about one maybe two guys that were getting a fair bit less then that but I don't recall the particulars to what they said and the gun/barrel length they were using.

To some 100 fps may sound like a substantial difference but considering all the variables that affect velocity it really isn't that much.

I can't say that I've shot a lot of factory ammo but I've shot a variety of different factory ammo in different rifles over the years and with the exception of Hornady's 6.5 PRC 147 ELD-M ammo which in my rifle shoots crazy good and is actually slightly faster none of it matched the advertised velocity on the box.  I had a Wby Accumark 338-378 years ago that I bought some Nosler Custom 225gr AB ammo for that was per the box supposed to be 3250fps.  It barely made 3000fps which was obviously well below what they were claiming.  It shot well so that was good but it was much slower then they claimed.  I'll give Nosler the benefit of the doubt and say I don't believe they lied about the velocity and I'm sure in their test gun they probably got that velocity but in mine with the same length barrel it was quite a bit slower.  Maybe their rifle had a lot less freebore then my factory Weatherby which with the same ammo would be slower in my rifle and that's just one of many possibilities.

Offline Doublelunger

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Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #27 on: December 06, 2024, 12:42:38 PM »
Why do folks want short barrels on a 7 PRC?  Anything less than 24" and you are leaving velocity on the table.  24-26" with 26 being preferrable in my humble opinion.  The 7 prc is getting bad reviews for having anemic velocities at best.....this is partially due to overestimated velocities by Hornady factory ammo and also because all the rifle manufacturers are making these rifles with 20-22" barrels (I'm assuming because so many people hunt suppressed now days).  If I'm buying a magnum rifle, I want speed.....otherwise you are better off just buying a 7-08. 

If I was hell bent on a 20-22" 7prc....I would be shooting light weight mono's to pick up speed.  This is a double edged sword though and I guess to each their own. 

But I digress.....   :chuckle: :chuckle:

You don't need a ton of velocity with the high BC bullets.  2800 is easily attainable with a 20-22" barrel with the 7PRC and the 175 ELDX ammo that is readily available.  I'm getting 2960 with a 22" barrel, Nosler 175 ABLR and RL26 

I just guessed at 3050 and the 139 LRX but the 175 ELDX quickly surpasses the lighter bullet in wind deflection while elevation is fairly even. 

I'll give up the velocity for the shorter, lighter more compact package any day.  Especially shooting suppressed and hunting timber/back country. 

175.0 gr. Hornady ELD-X (2841) - .284 (7mm) @ 2,800 fps
139.0 gr. Barnes LRX (30295) - .284 (7mm) @ 3,050 fps
Range   Velocity   Time of Flight   Elevation           Windage
(yards)   (fps)   (sec)   (moa)   (moa)
0   2,800 / 3,050   0.00 / 0.00   0.0 / 0.0           0.0 / 0.0
100   2,666 / 2,842   0.11 / 0.10   0.0 / 0.0           0.4 / 0.6
200   2,535 / 2,644   0.23 / 0.21       -1.6 / -1.3           0.9 / 1.2
300   2,408 / 2,454   0.35 / 0.33   -3.9 / -3.4           1.4 / 1.9
400   2,284 / 2,272   0.48 / 0.46   -6.4 / -5.8           1.9 / 2.6
500   2,165 / 2,097   0.61 / 0.59   -9.3 / -8.5           2.5 / 3.4
600   2,049 / 1,931   0.75 / 0.74   -12.3 / -11.6   3.1 / 4.3
700   1,936 / 1,773   0.90 / 0.91   -15.6 / -15.0   3.7 / 5.2
800   1,827 / 1,625   1.06 / 1.08   -19.2 / -19.0   4.3 / 6.2

My Seekins havok element in 7prc with 22" barrel is pushing 180 bergers just over 3,000 feet per second. Plenty good for me without having an obnoxiously long rifle.

Offline Lowedog

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Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #28 on: December 06, 2024, 12:53:50 PM »
I hadn't heard of any issues with bullets, but Hornady definitely wasn't open regarding velocity until enough pressure was put on them that they had to release a statement about why their velocities weren't as advertised.  I know Ron Spomer talked about it on one of his podcasts and read the email he received from Hornady explaining their issue.

The powder they used in developing the cartridge (most likely RL26) become unavailable to them, so they had to find something else.  Apparently, they settled on something that met their needs for accuracy but wouldn't achieve the same velocity. 

Where they really failed their customers is they left the 3000fps label on the box and didn't put this info out until enough people were talking about it that they had.  They still haven't changed the velocity to what they are actually getting with this substitute. 

I have read that the Federal ammo loaded with the 175 ELDX does get really close to that 3000fps mark.  Makes sense because I have read that both Alliant and Federal are owned by the same company. 

Early lots of Hornady 7mm PRC do come really close to those numbers.  I started buying ammo when it first hit the shelves because I knew I was going to have a rifle in this cartridge.  I have several boxes with early lot numbers, and they shoot around 2950 with a 22" barrel. 
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Offline Lowedog

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Re: Bergara vs fierce
« Reply #29 on: December 06, 2024, 12:57:32 PM »
BTW, didn't mean to hi-jack your thread.  If it were me, I would be looking really hard at the Seekins. 
"Ethical behavior is doing the right thing when no one else is watching- even when doing the wrong thing is legal."
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