2025 Big Game Rules are out!

[teanawayslayer]

Its hunting, not "getting." Some of us LOVE to hunt, there is no shame in doing that no matter how much it costs, or how crappy the opportunities are.

With a little time and effort one can notch tags every year in this state, but if you dont.....well you still get to enjoy your passion of hunting   

I think this point is missing in a lot of the above discussion. Criticize the state if you want, but they're managing for opportunity - the opportunity to enjoy the elk woods with a tag in your pocket. It's ironic to criticize them for "just wanting to sell tags." OF COURSE that's what they want. That's literally the definition of managing for opportunity.

Using the Yakima herd as an example: stable populations and steadily increasing harvests look to me like the system is working. Keep in mind that the "over objective" total population is largely related to the Rattlesnake subherd that's way above objective but on mostly federal and private land outside the purview of WDFW. I want to hunt them too, but if you think the DoE is ever going to allow the public to hunt the Hanford site, you're kidding yourself. MAYBE they'd let some master hunters or special tag holders into the Waluke or Rattlesnake units of the National Monument, but I'd be shocked to see that happen. Basically the entire range of the Rattlesnake subherd is already "any elk" during general rifle, so there's not a lot more the state can do.

These tables show the decline in bull numbers and even though they have rebounded they still have a ways to go to get back to where they were when we had bull tags we all want to see. Given the fires since the decline I suspect the herd numbers should begin to grow rapidly.

there’s nothing wrong with the numbers. Numbers are good. Just less opportunity 

[CarbonHunter]

Its hunting, not "getting." Some of us LOVE to hunt, there is no shame in doing that no matter how much it costs, or how crappy the opportunities are.

With a little time and effort one can notch tags every year in this state, but if you dont.....well you still get to enjoy your passion of hunting   

I think this point is missing in a lot of the above discussion. Criticize the state if you want, but they're managing for opportunity - the opportunity to enjoy the elk woods with a tag in your pocket. It's ironic to criticize them for "just wanting to sell tags." OF COURSE that's what they want. That's literally the definition of managing for opportunity.

Using the Yakima herd as an example: stable populations and steadily increasing harvests look to me like the system is working. Keep in mind that the "over objective" total population is largely related to the Rattlesnake subherd that's way above objective but on mostly federal and private land outside the purview of WDFW. I want to hunt them too, but if you think the DoE is ever going to allow the public to hunt the Hanford site, you're kidding yourself. MAYBE they'd let some master hunters or special tag holders into the Waluke or Rattlesnake units of the National Monument, but I'd be shocked to see that happen. Basically the entire range of the Rattlesnake subherd is already "any elk" during general rifle, so there's not a lot more the state can do.

These tables show the decline in bull numbers and even though they have rebounded they still have a ways to go to get back to where they were when we had bull tags we all want to see. Given the fires since the decline I suspect the herd numbers should begin to grow rapidly.

there’s nothing wrong with the numbers. Numbers are good. Just less opportunity 

Do you have another chart that contradicts the charts that were shared?  Or do you not understand how to read the charts?

Calf survival is low. Given the mild winters that would point to predators.

The bull to cow ratio dropped as low as 7:100 cows in 2018 and has barely hit a mark of 13:100 cows. That’s not mature bull but all bulls in the herd. Those are not good numbers for herd health and is an indicator that the state still has not gotten the poaching or tribal hunting issues under control. It clearly isn’t because of the state issuing too many tags.

[teanawayslayer]

Its hunting, not "getting." Some of us LOVE to hunt, there is no shame in doing that no matter how much it costs, or how crappy the opportunities are.

With a little time and effort one can notch tags every year in this state, but if you dont.....well you still get to enjoy your passion of hunting   

I think this point is missing in a lot of the above discussion. Criticize the state if you want, but they're managing for opportunity - the opportunity to enjoy the elk woods with a tag in your pocket. It's ironic to criticize them for "just wanting to sell tags." OF COURSE that's what they want. That's literally the definition of managing for opportunity.

Using the Yakima herd as an example: stable populations and steadily increasing harvests look to me like the system is working. Keep in mind that the "over objective" total population is largely related to the Rattlesnake subherd that's way above objective but on mostly federal and private land outside the purview of WDFW. I want to hunt them too, but if you think the DoE is ever going to allow the public to hunt the Hanford site, you're kidding yourself. MAYBE they'd let some master hunters or special tag holders into the Waluke or Rattlesnake units of the National Monument, but I'd be shocked to see that happen. Basically the entire range of the Rattlesnake subherd is already "any elk" during general rifle, so there's not a lot more the state can do.

These tables show the decline in bull numbers and even though they have rebounded they still have a ways to go to get back to where they were when we had bull tags we all want to see. Given the fires since the decline I suspect the herd numbers should begin to grow rapidly.

there’s nothing wrong with the numbers. Numbers are good. Just less opportunity 

Do you have another chart that contradicts the charts that were shared?  Or do you not understand how to read the charts?

Calf survival is low. Given the mild winters that would point to predators.

The bull to cow ratio dropped as low as 7:100 cows in 2018 and has barely hit a mark of 13:100 cows. That’s not mature bull but all bulls in the herd. Those are not good numbers for herd health and is an indicator that the state still has not gotten the poaching or tribal hunting issues under control. It clearly isn’t because of the state issuing too many tags.

do  you know how they do there count. Hey guys it’s time to do a count. Let’s head to the feed lot. There numbers are no where close to correct. But If you believe what they have on paper that’s great.

[CarbonHunter]

Its hunting, not "getting." Some of us LOVE to hunt, there is no shame in doing that no matter how much it costs, or how crappy the opportunities are.

With a little time and effort one can notch tags every year in this state, but if you dont.....well you still get to enjoy your passion of hunting   

I think this point is missing in a lot of the above discussion. Criticize the state if you want, but they're managing for opportunity - the opportunity to enjoy the elk woods with a tag in your pocket. It's ironic to criticize them for "just wanting to sell tags." OF COURSE that's what they want. That's literally the definition of managing for opportunity.

Using the Yakima herd as an example: stable populations and steadily increasing harvests look to me like the system is working. Keep in mind that the "over objective" total population is largely related to the Rattlesnake subherd that's way above objective but on mostly federal and private land outside the purview of WDFW. I want to hunt them too, but if you think the DoE is ever going to allow the public to hunt the Hanford site, you're kidding yourself. MAYBE they'd let some master hunters or special tag holders into the Waluke or Rattlesnake units of the National Monument, but I'd be shocked to see that happen. Basically the entire range of the Rattlesnake subherd is already "any elk" during general rifle, so there's not a lot more the state can do.

These tables show the decline in bull numbers and even though they have rebounded they still have a ways to go to get back to where they were when we had bull tags we all want to see. Given the fires since the decline I suspect the herd numbers should begin to grow rapidly.

there’s nothing wrong with the numbers. Numbers are good. Just less opportunity 

Do you have another chart that contradicts the charts that were shared?  Or do you not understand how to read the charts?

Calf survival is low. Given the mild winters that would point to predators.

The bull to cow ratio dropped as low as 7:100 cows in 2018 and has barely hit a mark of 13:100 cows. That’s not mature bull but all bulls in the herd. Those are not good numbers for herd health and is an indicator that the state still has not gotten the poaching or tribal hunting issues under control. It clearly isn’t because of the state issuing too many tags.

do  you know how they do there count. Hey guys it’s time to do a count. Let’s head to the feed lot. There numbers are no where close to correct. But If you believe what they have on paper that’s great.

If you have another survey let’s see the numbers?

The Yakima herd is probably one of the easiest herds to count in the entire country. A majority of the herd shows up in feeding stations and since the land is so wide open a quick fly over, glassing from hilltops or a quick drone launch will give you a good idea of what the percentage is in the feed lot.

Elk herds on the coast are basically impossible to count. Other states fly a small area of the winter range every few years and basically guess what the populations are.

Keep in mind all the sub herds that the Yakima herds has as well. Like said above the Rattlesnake herd and I believe the Clockum herds are probably above the charts shown for bull:cow but other areas like the little naches or bumping drainage are likely below those numbers. Those herds are starting to rebound but for a few years they were way down from their historical averages.

[BA Mongor]

CH, what gives you the idea that coastal elk herds are "basically impossible to count"? They do multiple ariel surveys in 681, 506, 673 and also a large concentration in 550, 556, 524 and the other areas around Mt. St. Helens. What I don't agree with is there mismanagement of the predators in these areas, and how large of an impact they're having on the deer and elk populations.

[CarbonHunter]

CH, what gives you the idea that coastal elk herds are "basically impossible to count"? They do multiple ariel surveys in 681, 506, 673 and also a large concentration in 550, 556, 524 and the other areas around Mt. St. Helens. What I don't agree with is there mismanagement of the predators in these areas, and how large of an impact they're having on the deer and elk populations.

How accurate do you think an ariel survey is in the heavily wooded areas of the west side?  Yes they can count them in the clearcuts but the public ground has little clearcuts these days. The state has published reports going back as far as I can recall that they cannot accurately count blacktail deer because of the thick brush. Do you think it is any different for the elk?  Ya they have an estimate but it’s not going to be as accurate as an estimate that is based on a count of the open terrain of the east side.

I agree that predators are being mismanaged and are leading to the low calf survival rates.

[yakimanoob]

Gotta love this forum. When the biologists say that we could have more tags, everyone starts whining about the state not listening to the scientists. But the minute the biologists say that population numbers aren't ready for more tags, everyone starts whining about the biologists being too lazy to get "real" counts and saying things like "But If you believe what they have on paper that’s great."

What a clown show.

[fishngamereaper]

I'm not sure anyone's a clown that disagrees with the States perception of herd health and ratios.
I see their numbers and I scratch my head ...if the counts are only from feed lots that's extremely misrepresenting of the actual numbers....
I see a small offering of elk tags throughout 300 series gmus and I scratch my head...it doesn't take a biologist to see the Yakima herd is busting at the seems....and could stand to have allot more tags offered.

There's thing's the State does every year in the name of management that makes no sense.
I don't fault anyone for questioning them...
Especially since we keep losing opportunities....
Unless of course you hunt the firing center..which from the looks of it they want to kill off that herd.

[yakimanoob]

I didn't say anyone was a clown for doubting the state's numbers or decisions.

But if you doubt them in the absence of better quality information just because you don't like them, especially if you hail the virtues of listening to the biologists when they're saying things you like... then yeah. You're a clown.

[ipkus]

You can call it a clown show, but it's just as naive to assume that just because there is some 'data' from an agency it is automatically good science...or an accurate reflection of reality.

Very rarely is anything black and white in this world.  You're both right...and wrong.

[yakimanoob]

You can call it a clown show, but it's just as naive to assume that just because there is some 'data' from an agency it is automatically good science...or an accurate reflection of reality.

Very rarely is anything black and white in this world.  You're both right...and wrong.

You're mistaking my criticism of hypocrisy for support of the WDFW's numbers.

[Sundance]

I've made an excel sheet for quality elk by hunt choice, available tags, year-to-year percentage increase/decrease from 2014 to present year. I'm not an excel wiz, so this took awhile to build. Here's an interesting one for Quality elk choice Eastern Archery Peaches Ridge...

2014/134 tags
2015/126 tags
2016/134 tags
2017/104 tags
2018/58 tags
2019/10 tags
2020/10 tags
2021/9 tags
2022/8 tags
2023/8 tags
2024/6 tags
2025/6 tags

Overall available quality tags by year:
2014/1070 tags
2015/1100 tags
2016/1146 tags
2017/1123 tags
2018/860 tags
2019/558 tags
2020/464 tags
2021/539 tags
2022/469 tags
2023/457 tags
2024/460 tags
2025/366 tags

[Mtnwalker]

Its hunting, not "getting." Some of us LOVE to hunt, there is no shame in doing that no matter how much it costs, or how crappy the opportunities are.

With a little time and effort one can notch tags every year in this state, but if you dont.....well you still get to enjoy your passion of hunting   

I think this point is missing in a lot of the above discussion. Criticize the state if you want, but they're managing for opportunity - the opportunity to enjoy the elk woods with a tag in your pocket. It's ironic to criticize them for "just wanting to sell tags." OF COURSE that's what they want. That's literally the definition of managing for opportunity.

Using the Yakima herd as an example: stable populations and steadily increasing harvests look to me like the system is working. Keep in mind that the "over objective" total population is largely related to the Rattlesnake subherd that's way above objective but on mostly federal and private land outside the purview of WDFW. I want to hunt them too, but if you think the DoE is ever going to allow the public to hunt the Hanford site, you're kidding yourself. MAYBE they'd let some master hunters or special tag holders into the Waluke or Rattlesnake units of the National Monument, but I'd be shocked to see that happen. Basically the entire range of the Rattlesnake subherd is already "any elk" during general rifle, so there's not a lot more the state can do.

They state in the GSTR that the Rattlesnake subherd is not included in Yakima herd population estimates.

[yakimanoob]

They state in the GSTR that the Rattlesnake subherd is not included in Yakima herd population estimates.

Ah! Indeed; sorry for the mistake and thank you for the correction.

In point of fact, my error continues as the reported population may not even include the (very overpopulated) elk on YTC.

[High Climber]

I've made an excel sheet for quality elk by hunt choice, available tags, year-to-year percentage increase/decrease from 2014 to present year. I'm not an excel wiz, so this took awhile to build. Here's an interesting one for Quality elk choice Eastern Archery Peaches Ridge...

2014/134 tags
2015/126 tags
2016/134 tags
2017/104 tags
2018/58 tags
2019/10 tags
2020/10 tags
2021/9 tags
2022/8 tags
2023/8 tags
2024/6 tags
2025/6 tags

Overall available quality tags by year:
2014/1070 tags
2015/1100 tags
2016/1146 tags
2017/1123 tags
2018/860 tags
2019/558 tags
2020/464 tags
2021/539 tags
2022/469 tags
2023/457 tags
2024/460 tags
2025/366 tags

I knew it was bad but that is terrible. What happened in 2017? And what is 2030 going to look like