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Author Topic: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington  (Read 119746 times)

Offline stumprat

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #150 on: June 05, 2011, 09:59:32 AM »
Dale,
Does the WFW group have an ORGANIZED front pertaining to the wolf issue yet?

Offline robertg

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #151 on: June 05, 2011, 10:08:14 AM »
Dale,
Judging by the public comments I heard at the meeting. Your group should be attending every meeting until this thing is finalized. 

My only suggestion is. When you guys speak to the commission. Make sure to leave out any emotion you may have pertaining to this issue. And make damned sure that all comments are fact based. If you let your emotions get out of check at these meetings. It just hurts any chance of being taken seriously. Comments to the commission should be well thought out and written out to stay on topic.

Unfortunately the wolf issue is what it is. They WILL be here to stay. The hurdle now will be. Countering the wolf lovers, to keep the numbers as low as possible. And the number of zones to thier current numbers.

You cannot keep the #s low because you are afraid the wolves are going to kill a lot of deer and elk. It needs to be based on science. The science says you need 15 breeding pairs to produce a sustainable wolf population in Washington. This is the science talking, not the emotion.


The wolf advocates were at the meeting and complained that the department's goal of 15 breeding pairs was much too low. I think that's why he said "countering the wolf lovers to keep numbers as low as possible". The WDFW has obviously done their homework and if they say 15 breeding pairs is good enough, then it is, and I have no doubt it's based on the best science available. But some people will never be happy with any number the WDFW comes up with, and they will always argue for a higher number. Reason for that- probably because they don't ever want to see wolves off the endangered species list in our state.

it needs to be based on science. Wolf lovers want more wolves and others want little to no wolves. Let the science do the talking. 15 breeding pairs is what the science says. If people want to disagree with what the science says, that's fine. Whether we agree with the science or not, the science is what it is.

Here is the problem with "your science", your science is based on biologists who love wolves and studies scewed in favor of wolves. There are also scientists opposed to wolves, but the state F&G and media choose to ignore their warnings.

We have all seen the results of too many wolves in YNP, Idaho, MT, WI, MN, and WY. The "proven" science from those states now indicates the F&G and wolf lovers all want too many wolves for the land to support and that will cause great losses of other animal populations resulting in impacts to citizens and livestock as hungry wolves are forced to invade populated areas.

This scenario "wolf science" is already being orchestrated in Washington exactly as it was done in the other states, it started with the wolf lovers promoting wolves and infiltrating the F&G programs. Then the past WDFW director appointed a Wolf Working Group that was weighted heavy to wolf supporters, no wonder the working group recommended 15 bp's. The minority position recommended half as many wolves. FACT (its in the draft wolf plan)

You know that with the current wolf plan there will be far more than the 15 bp's on the ground (that you say you desire). For every "documented" breeding pair, there will most likely be two or thee bp's (packs) of wolves eating elk, deer, and moose. The WDFW can't even spray noxious weeds on their small holdings, or respond to all the cougar complaints, how can we think they will possibly find and document all the wolves in Washington. Then to top it off, you already know that wolf groups will sue in Washington courts to stop any management and that wolves will continue to populate.

That is the "proven" science of wolves in a NUTSHELL and you know all that is true.

Let's hear some more of your "false" wolf propaganda!
I want to thank you for helping to educate our members who have not been exposed to the same lies and deceit that occurred in ID/MT/WY/MN/WI/MI.  :twocents:

bearpaw, science has absolutely nothing to do with whether one likes wolves or not. Science is determining how many wolves are needed to produce a sustainable wolf population.

Offline NWBREW

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #152 on: June 05, 2011, 10:09:42 AM »
If "science reigns supreme" why are elk herds in Idaho and Montana being destroyed?  Do they need different scientists?



That is exactly how I feel too.  It seems we are destroying one to elevate the other.
Going on a moose hunt!!!  WOOHOO...free lodging!!

Offline robertg

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #153 on: June 05, 2011, 10:10:50 AM »
How about hytadid science?. Not sure the exact spelling

http://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/gray_wolf/faq.html



Do wolves have tapeworms that can spread to other animals and people?

The Echinoccus granulosus tapeworm is found almost worldwide in canids, including wolves, dogs, coyotes, and foxes. The eggs of this tapeworm are spread in canid feces. Wild and domestic ungulates (deer, elk, moose, sheep, goats, swine, etc.) are the normal intermediate hosts, carrying a cyst form in their organs. When canids (including dogs) feed on these infected organs, they become tapeworm hosts. (For life-cycle information, see http://www.dpd.cdc.gov/DPDx/html/Echinococcosis.htm. )

Humans are very rarely infected. Humans would have to ingest tapeworm eggs in canid feces or drink water contaminated with canid feces. It is extremely unlikely to be spread by handling ungulate capes or meat, unless those parts are contaminated with canid feces and handlers do not use good basic hygiene. Likewise, if a pet dog rolled in feces infected with tapeworm eggs, good hygiene is required after handling the dog. Humans cannot be infected by ingesting cysts found in ungulates. These parasitic tapeworms are not wind-born nor transmitted in any way other than direct ingestion of eggs in feces.

The Echinococcus parasite had not been recently documented in wildlife in Idaho until it was detected in some wild ungulates in 2006. After the finding was reported at a Wildlife Disease Association meeting, further study found it in wolves in Idaho and Montana and a paper on the findings was published in the Journal of Wildlife Diseases in October 2009. (Wildlife Disease Association Meeting Abstract at http://www.wildlifedisease.org/meetings.htm  Connecticut meeting link, abstract #94; Journal of Wildlife Diseases Abstract at http://www.jwildlifedis.org/cgi/content/abstract/45/4/1208 )

The researchers do not know whether the parasite was introduced with the importation of wolves from Canada, or whether the parasite has always been present in other hosts, and wolves became a new definitive host. Ungulates in the Northwest have been documented with this parasite in the past. Such parasites are usually not fatal to hosts at any life cycle stage, but can diminish overall health.

All parasites or diseases harbored by any wildlife should be taken seriously and good hygiene used when handling live wild animals, dead wild animals, their secretions, or their products

Offline luvtohnt

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #154 on: June 05, 2011, 10:13:13 AM »
Dale read some of the books authored by the biologist working in Yellowstone and Idaho. They all admit that while they don't want the wolves to be killed they know it is necessary to keep the population in check. The nonprofits go through and glean info and use it out of context in their lawsuits to get what they want. Science says the goal was reached long ago but with all the lawsuits our hands are tied for now.

Also I would like some info preferably on line about the different species of wolves, and info that people use to determine that these wolves are in fact invasive species. Thanks.

As far as finding and following the wolves that is up to the USFWS until we are able to delist to state endangered. This is because they fall under federal protection under the ESA. So they will most likely be diligent until it is turned over to the state.
Brandon

Offline mulehunter

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #155 on: June 05, 2011, 10:36:36 AM »
WDFW will always DEPENDS on hunters. Our families as 14 each one of them start to stop buying WDFW tags. They lost $1425.00 from us.  Because its only way to show them we don't want wolves here period.
We have almost 250,000 hunters purchased tags last year. IF 100,000 hunter decide to boycott on WDFW, they loose 10.2 million dollar this year. That's our KEY if we just do it for just one year or two. WDFW  will start to think and listen to us.


Mulehunter.

Offline mulehunter

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #156 on: June 05, 2011, 11:02:03 AM »
http://www.q13fox.com/news/kcpq-new-wolf-recovery-plan-causes-a-stir-20110603,0,7267686.story

just read the article on news paper on wolf  plan .
and the new recommendations for  dog owners are to keep dogs in sturdy gages overnight

So are we on CURFEW to allow wolves walk thur whole area FREELY to kill everything out there.  If they knew wolves in danger.  Why they suggest us to keep dogs in. Well reason they don't want pay u for ur loss. And we are allowed to shoot cougar if cougar kill our livestock or pet but we can't shoot wolf.  WTF.  I can't believe they try to tell us what better for us to handle things when wolves are out in wood.        That's all     BULLSH!T



Mulehunter.    :bash:


Offline bobcat

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #157 on: June 05, 2011, 11:06:50 AM »
mulehunter,

Actually one of the new revisions to the wolf plan that was brought up at the meeting yesterday was that people would be allowed to kill wolves caught in the act of killing livestock. Of course, at least one of the wolf advocates who spoke yesterday, complained about it.

Offline Curly

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #158 on: June 05, 2011, 11:10:11 AM »
Why do we need 15 breeding pairs.........just so they can get off the endangered list?  Leave them on the list and keep the numbers at or below what they are now. 
May I always be the kind of person my dog thinks I am.

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Offline Curly

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #159 on: June 05, 2011, 11:18:27 AM »
If they want wolves in the Olympics, then I assume that means they want to transplant them.  It's one thing for wolves to enter across the ID or Canadian border and allow them to live, but to transplant them is another thing altogether IMO.
May I always be the kind of person my dog thinks I am.

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Offline Lowedog

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #160 on: June 05, 2011, 11:19:34 AM »
robertg, how familiar are you with Washington and do you believe 15bp's is a realistic number? 

My opinion is that it is not a realistic goal for WA.  I don't believe WA has enough room for that many wolves and that we will never reach that number keeping wolves as a protected species here. 
"Ethical behavior is doing the right thing when no one else is watching- even when doing the wrong thing is legal."
— Aldo Leopold

Offline mulehunter

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #161 on: June 05, 2011, 11:24:29 AM »
mulehunter,

Actually one of the new revisions to the wolf plan that was brought up at the meeting yesterday was that people would be allowed to kill wolves caught in the act of killing livestock. Of course, at least one of the wolf advocates who spoke yesterday, complained about it.

Thanks. I didn't know that. What did wolf Advocate said. I am curious what he or she said. And why Q.
hopefully they will allow us shoot if wolf cross inside pasture.

Mulehunter.

Offline Curly

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #162 on: June 05, 2011, 11:24:43 AM »
WDFW will always DEPENDS on hunters. Our families as 14 each one of them start to stop buying WDFW tags. They lost $1425.00 from us.  Because its only way to show them we don't want wolves here period.
We have almost 250,000 hunters purchased tags last year. IF 100,000 hunter decide to boycott on WDFW, they loose 10.2 million dollar this year. That's our KEY if we just do it for just one year or two. WDFW  will start to think and listen to us.

Mulehunter.

I like that idea. :tup:
May I always be the kind of person my dog thinks I am.

><((((º>` ><((((º>. ><((((º>.¸><((((º>

Offline Huntnphish

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #163 on: June 05, 2011, 11:29:25 AM »
They should be allowed to exist as much as Coyotes are.   Open season all year long.  If they can cut it they willl.   They will survive as they have in years past, in the back country where they belong.  Their population will never be large enough to hurt big game populations and yet they will survive just fine.

 +1 :yeah:      Well said Bone.

So, if they migrate so well, why plant them?
Wolves were never planted in Washington. They came over naturally from Idaho and other states. There is no reason to reintroduce wolves to Washington when they are already come over naturally from places like Idaho and Canada.

 I'm not sure why you guys are debating this guy, he has already admitted there is no reason for reintroduction.

 

Offline bobcat

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #164 on: June 05, 2011, 11:29:49 AM »
If they want wolves in the Olympics, then I assume that means they want to transplant them.  It's one thing for wolves to enter across the ID or Canadian border and allow them to live, but to transplant them is another thing altogether IMO.

If who wants them in the Olympics? There's nothing in the WDFW plan that says they need to be present in the Olympics before they can be delisted. One of the things the wolf advocates complained about yesterday, was the fact that one of the wolf management regions combined the Olympic Peninsula, all of SW Washington, and the South Cascades.

 


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