#11 Mag caps not firing

[Sabotloader]

After you figure it out, switch to musket caps.  Bigger bang and easy to get off the nipple if you don't end up firing. 

Whatever you do, DO NOT buy the tins labeled For Reenactment Use.  Seems like every store has them on the shelf now and they have about as much powder as a cap gun.

Thats exactly the reason I chose to go with #11 caps.  As Sabotloader has said many times on the forum, the #11 cap fit way tighter on the nipple.  I will be hunting during the late season when rain/snow is almost a given.  I want a cap that will be tight and not let water in. I also don't want to have to worry about my cap coming loose and falling off while I'm out in the field.  I don't mind having to take my pocket knife out to pry a #11 cap off.  The extra protection from the elements and from the cap coming loose is worth the extra few seconds it takes to get the cap off.

I certainly want to echo your thoughts... about the #11 with the correct sized nipple. I would not say that it is totally water proof but if it fits the post tightly and you push it on correctly it will be very difficult for water to get up inside the cap.  Also this tight fit directs almost all of the heat from the firing the cap down the nipple post to the flash channel and the load. 

But, I admit they will not fall off the post easily if you want to decap... and if you decap one I probably would not use that cap for hunting again - at hunting in foul weather.

With a Musket cap you do get a longer burn but the temperature of the burn of a #11 MAG and Musket Cap are the same and the flash channel in both nipples are the same.

It really comes down to what you are comforatable with.  For myself it is #11 mag and T7-3f

[adamR]

I have two traditions vortek muzzleloaders and both of them shoot number 11's.  One of the guns I've had for three years now and I have never had a problem with the caps not firing until about a month ago.  Now about the fourth trigger pull they will actually go off.  But, there is a huge dent in the cap after 1 trigger pull.  We're talking like the cap is disfigured so I'm pretty sure I'm getting the correct amount of force to make it go off.

I bought my wife the same muzzle loader this spring and shot it a couple times no problem and about a month ago it started doing the same thing.  Took her shooting last night and got so pissed because it would fire worth a damn.

It seems wierd that the guns would be to blame if they quit working at the same time.  Every spring I buy a new nipple and breech plug to have on hand and thats what I shoot with that year, so they both have brand new factory nipples.

Is it possible for caps to go bad with age?  I've had the same container for almost three years now.  any other ideas?  Other than the traditional "traditions vorteks suck".

[andersonjk4]

I don't have a ton of experience with muzzleloaders, but I have been around rifle primers and reloading for a long time and I would assume that the #11 caps would be succeptable to moisture just like primers and powder are.  I don't think 3 years is too long to keep caps around as long as they have been stored in a cool dry place and sealed up so they couldn't absorb moisture out of the air.  Caps are pretty cheap, so I would go buy a fresh pack of them to rule out your old primers as the cause of the misfires.  When you don't have a cap on the nipple is the hammer making contact with the nipple?  The problem I was having was that my firing pin was a tiny bit too short and wasn't getting enough contact with the cap to force the cap onto the nipple hard enough to make it fire even though the firing pin was leaving a big dent in the cap.   

[washingtonmuley]

I have a CVA Elkhorn and have been doing some load testing with it.  I bought a package of CCI #11 Mag caps from Cabela's about 6 months ago and shot them during my first testing.  They shot good, but I did get a few that didn't fire.  I assumed it was just due to me not pushing the cap onto the nipple hard enough.  I started using the back of my capper to push the cap onto the nipple and didn't have any problems after that.  Recently I put in an order to Powder Valley and ended up ordering 1000 of the CCI #11 Mag caps because they have much better prices.  I went out to the range to do some more testing recently and was having problems with the new caps from PV not firing.  Initially I thought I just wasn't getting the caps on tight enough, but then I started trying the old caps I bought from Cabela's and they seemed to fire more regularly, but I still had a couple not fire.  This is very frustrating because I don't want to be in a hunting situation and not have my cap fire.  The caps do seem to fit on the nipple very tight.  The caps that don't fire have to be pryed off the nipple with a pocket knife or little screwdriver and it takes considerable force to pop them off.  The firing pin is leaving a nice mark in the caps and usually busts the charge in the cap up when it hits it.  Has anyone experienced this before?  Do I have a bad batch of caps, or am I not getting my caps on tight enough?

I had the same problem with the same gun. I tried everything and could not get it to fire consistently. According to CVA it was a common problem but the had no solutions that worked. Get rid of it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Heredoggydoggy]

I shoot a Hawken type ML so I have no practical experience with Inlines.  That being said, the principle is the same.  Most misfires are due to the cap not being fully seated on the nipple.  I have formed the habit of letting the hammer down gently on the cap and pushing on the hammer spur to make sure the cap is tight on the nipple.  (Might be more difficult or even impossible to do on an inline.)  Second, nipples get flattened down with repeated firing, especially when dry firing,much like a chisel gets mushroomed from repeated hammer blows.  If replacing a nipple, make sure it is shaped right to accept the cap.  I had to remove the nipple on a brand new rifle and chuck the nipple in a drill and work it with a file to even get a cap to seat on it.  Third, although I've never owned an inline ML, I've seen many that the hammer part of the bolt stops just short of hitting the nipple.  I would think this would be a major cause of misfires.  Make sure the hammer makes firm contact with the nipple.  If there is no adjustment, try a different nipple, or put a thin washer under the nipple to take up the space.  Muzzle loaders always have had to be "tinkered with" to get them to work.  That's why they're called "Primitive Weapons". 

[Russ McDonald]

I am glad I remembered this thread a big help.  Just got back from bow hunting in MN on Wednesday and decided to take my CVA out and fire it for the first time.  I know way late in the game.  fired on every second or third trigger pull.  I had different nipples but forgot backing out the breach and nipple tomorrow go to by the CVA perfect nipple and hunt tomorrow evening.  This was a big help.

[andersonjk4]

Russ glad this thread could be of help to someone else.  I shot my elkhorn again this weekend and only had one failure to fire and that was all my fault for not firing a cap or at least using the nipple pick after I cleaned the barrel.  I didn't have any caps not fire with the perfect nipple.  I did notice that I had to use my nipple pick before every shot or else I would get slight hang fires.