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Author Topic: whats the rule?  (Read 14455 times)

Offline longrangekiller

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whats the rule?
« on: July 25, 2012, 10:22:44 AM »
So I got a buddy that drew a peaches ridge muzzy bull tag and we went up scouting we found some good country lots of elk and lots of bear sighn. Since I won't be able to hunt bear very much this year for bear i was wondering if it is leagle for me to pack my rifle for bear while he is muzzy hunting elk?
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Offline h20hunter

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Re: whats the rule?
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2012, 10:26:05 AM »
My opionion is to take the bear tag and the rifle. If you do have an elk tag leave it behind. Shouldn't be any doubts of your intentions if checked. Also, maybe keep in mind that your rifle scope is not a good choice to glass any elk he is looking at.

Offline Jburke

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Re: whats the rule?
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2012, 10:37:53 AM »
As long as that unit is open for bear at that time it is perfectly legal.  However, if you are stopped don't be surprised if you are questioned about it at the least.

Offline Woodchuck

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Re: whats the rule?
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2012, 11:05:22 AM »
My opionion is to take the bear tag and the rifle. If you do have an elk tag leave it behind. Shouldn't be any doubts of your intentions if checked. Also, maybe keep in mind that your rifle scope is not a good choice to glass any elk he is looking at.
:yeah: That is solid advice IMHO
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Offline longrangekiller

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Re: whats the rule?
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2012, 12:07:14 PM »
My opionion is to take the bear tag and the rifle. If you do have an elk tag leave it behind. Shouldn't be any doubts of your intentions if checked. Also, maybe keep in mind that your rifle scope is not a good choice to glass any elk he is looking at.

Thanks for the advice. And ya I dont use my scope to glass lol have had to many guns pointed at me from other yahoos doing that lol
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Offline trophyhunt

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Re: whats the rule?
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2012, 12:22:11 PM »
I must have missed something?? Your buddy drew a muzzy bull tag and someone is telling you to leave the elk tag at home and take the rifle and bear tag? I must be reading it wrong because if my buddy drew an any bull tag for muzzy that's what we would be hunting. I wouldn't even bother with the bear hunting during his hunt and concentrate on the big prize, the elk.  You can always take your gun and bear tag with you later on his gut pile after the work is done of course.  :twocents:
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Offline firefighter4607

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Re: whats the rule?
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2012, 12:23:43 PM »
Last year my buddies brother was with us while we where Elk hunting with rifles, in Dayton. He had a bear tag and carried a rifle, the Forest service officer pulled over to talk with us and he didn't have any  problems with anyone. He just made sure we all had legal tags to hunt and wanted to make sure we were the people that the tags were issued to.

Offline longrangekiller

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Re: whats the rule?
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2012, 12:27:18 PM »
I must have missed something?? Your buddy drew a muzzy bull tag and someone is telling you to leave the elk tag at home and take the rifle and bear tag? I must be reading it wrong because if my buddy drew an any bull tag for muzzy that's what we would be hunting. I wouldn't even bother with the bear hunting during his hunt and concentrate on the big prize, the elk.  You can always take your gun and bear tag with you later on his gut pile after the work is done of course.  :twocents:

Yes we will be doing all elk hunting. But u never know that big chocolate bear might just walk out and wanna get shot
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Offline trophyhunt

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Re: whats the rule?
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2012, 12:36:06 PM »
I must have missed something?? Your buddy drew a muzzy bull tag and someone is telling you to leave the elk tag at home and take the rifle and bear tag? I must be reading it wrong because if my buddy drew an any bull tag for muzzy that's what we would be hunting. I wouldn't even bother with the bear hunting during his hunt and concentrate on the big prize, the elk.  You can always take your gun and bear tag with you later on his gut pile after the work is done of course.  :twocents:

Yes we will be doing all elk hunting. But u never know that big chocolate bear might just walk out and wanna get shot
I'm with you on that, for me, if I had the elk tag I just wouldn't want someone shooting a rifle at a bear when my elk of a liftime could just be around the bend. Of course this is comming from a guy with 17 years of waiting to be drawn for elk, that being said, if I see a bear when I'm hunting elk in Idaho this year with an over the counter tag- yes I would shoot the bear if he walked in front of me. You guys should have a blast, good luck.
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Offline h20hunter

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Re: whats the rule?
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2012, 12:38:24 PM »
Soooooooooooo..................You would take your muzzy along to hunt with your buddy on his tag? Sorry if I misunderstood but with one buddy + one muzzy+ plus one tag = one legal hunter.

One buddy + one muzzy+ plus one tag + you and your muzzy  =  party hunting?

Am I missing something?

Offline b0bbyg

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Re: whats the rule?
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2012, 12:41:29 PM »
I must have missed something?? Your buddy drew a muzzy bull tag and someone is telling you to leave the elk tag at home and take the rifle and bear tag? I must be reading it wrong because if my buddy drew an any bull tag for muzzy that's what we would be hunting. I wouldn't even bother with the bear hunting during his hunt and concentrate on the big prize, the elk.  You can always take your gun and bear tag with you later on his gut pile after the work is done of course.  :twocents:

Just for my education, is it legal to hunt over your own animals gut pile?

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Offline h20hunter

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Re: whats the rule?
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2012, 12:44:21 PM »
I think hunting over a bait pile for bear is still baiting. Even though it is natural, from a downed animal, the regs would still consider it bait. Best to shoot yotes off it.

Offline Dhoey07

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Re: whats the rule?
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2012, 12:45:44 PM »
I think hunting over a bait pile for bear is still baiting. Even though it is natural, from a downed animal, the regs would still consider it bait. Best to shoot yotes off it.

I have never thought about it that way.

Offline h20hunter

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Re: whats the rule?
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2012, 12:52:01 PM »
Yeah.....I don't see a problem with it.........however........that is just me. However, figuring the game dept can easily read the regs to include a gut pile as bait I would steer clear.

Offline bearpaw

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Re: whats the rule?
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2012, 12:56:10 PM »
I would check with WDFW first, but I think you can shoot a bear off a legally killed gut pile as long as you did not place it for the purpose of hunting bear. I also think you can legally hunt bear with your rifle while your partner hunts for elk with his bow. The same person cannot pack a rifle and bow in the field at the same time to hunt archery elk and rifle bear at the same time.
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Offline b0bbyg

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Re: whats the rule?
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2012, 01:00:07 PM »
Yeah, I was kind of thinking the gut pile was a gray area but I was curious what others thought.  checking with WDFW is the best bet.

As to the party hunting comment, I agree if you have two guys carrying Muzzys you are cruising for a ticket. If the others are just glassing and calling to help with the hunt then no problems.
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Offline CP

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Re: whats the rule?
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2012, 01:02:21 PM »
RCW 77.15.245
(d) As used in this subsection, "bait" means a substance placed, exposed, deposited, distributed, scattered, or otherwise used for the purpose of attracting black bears to an area where one or more persons hunt or intend to hunt them.

Offline bearpaw

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Re: whats the rule?
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2012, 01:08:19 PM »
RCW 77.15.245
(d) As used in this subsection, "bait" means a substance placed, exposed, deposited, distributed, scattered, or otherwise used for the purpose of attracting black bears to an area where one or more persons hunt or intend to hunt them.

used for the purpose of attracting black bears

That is why I stated my post the way I did. I asked a warden several years ago and was told a legal gut pile or even a dead cow that died naturally is OK. But you cannot drag a cow out to the woods and shoot bear.

But interpretations of the law can vary or change, so I would suggest asking WDFW. :twocents:
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Offline h20hunter

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Re: whats the rule?
« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2012, 01:09:38 PM »
As the guy who made the party hunting comment ( and will I'm sure catch heat for it) that is only how I read the post. I am saying nothing personally....only an intrepetation of the comment.

Hmmmm...........since you would remove the guts from the animal, place them there, and return I would think it would be a ticket waiting to happen.

Offline rtspring

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Re: whats the rule?
« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2012, 01:13:40 PM »
If you have a valid hunting license and TAG, you can be in the trees anytime the season is open. We often bear hunt after we have tagged our elk out. Long as you have a tag and license, your good to go. Thats a right that you paid for.  Do not get involved in party hunting. As for the gut pile, I am sure the state would waste more money trying to find you guilty of baiting.     If your gut tells you its wrong, chances are it is wrong...


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Offline h20hunter

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Re: whats the rule?
« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2012, 01:16:15 PM »
Yep....I agree with that 100%

Offline b0bbyg

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Re: whats the rule?
« Reply #21 on: July 25, 2012, 01:52:42 PM »
As the guy who made the party hunting comment ( and will I'm sure catch heat for it) that is only how I read the post. I am saying nothing personally....only an intrepetation of the comment.

Hmmmm...........since you would remove the guts from the animal, place them there, and return I would think it would be a ticket waiting to happen.


I don't think you should catch heat for the comment, it sounded the same to me, actually two different posts kind of read that way.  I am guessing it was not intended to sound that way but sometimes things look funny after they are posted.   
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Re: whats the rule?
« Reply #22 on: July 25, 2012, 02:30:53 PM »
RCW 77.15.245
(d) As used in this subsection, "bait" means a substance placed, exposed, deposited, distributed, scattered, or otherwise used for the purpose of attracting black bears to an area where one or more persons hunt or intend to hunt them.

used for the purpose of attracting black bears

That is why I stated my post the way I did. I asked a warden several years ago and was told a legal gut pile or even a dead cow that died naturally is OK. But you cannot drag a cow out to the woods and shoot bear.

But interpretations of the law can vary or change, so I would suggest asking WDFW. :twocents:
I believe it would depend on the hunter's intent.  If you shot an elk, were gutting it and a bear came in, you should not be cited.  If you are hunting the gut pile from a tree stand three days later, and you shot a bear off it you probably will be.
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Re: whats the rule?
« Reply #23 on: July 25, 2012, 02:32:22 PM »
My buddy has an elk tag, I have a bear tag and want to bear hunt while he is elk hunting.  How is that party hunting?
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Offline h20hunter

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Re: whats the rule?
« Reply #24 on: July 25, 2012, 02:33:34 PM »
In that manner it is not at all. I read it as they would both be carrying a muzzy with only one muzzy elk tag. You carrying a modern rifle with a bear tag is not in any way party hunting.

Offline royalbull

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Re: whats the rule?
« Reply #25 on: July 25, 2012, 02:36:38 PM »
I think that your buddy may be tempted to use your rifle if the right bull presents itself, the little natches rifle hunt is open at the same time, and unless you are planning on putting a large sign on the side of your truck that states you are hunting with a muzzy who would know, I'd be willing to bet several muzzy bulls have been shot with a rifle during that hunt, I say don't tempt him

Offline link

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Re: whats the rule?
« Reply #26 on: July 25, 2012, 03:01:08 PM »
I think that your buddy may be tempted to use your rifle if the right bull presents itself, the little natches rifle hunt is open at the same time, and unless you are planning on putting a large sign on the side of your truck that states you are hunting with a muzzy who would know, I'd be willing to bet several muzzy bulls have been shot with a rifle during that hunt, I say don't tempt him
Ding, ding, ding. We finally get to the root of the question!   :chuckle:

Offline Miles

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Re: whats the rule?
« Reply #27 on: July 25, 2012, 03:05:23 PM »
The things people assume here on HW is amazing.

Offline h20hunter

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Re: whats the rule?
« Reply #28 on: July 25, 2012, 03:12:44 PM »
Nah....pretty common place really.

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Re: whats the rule?
« Reply #29 on: July 25, 2012, 03:24:09 PM »
No, it isn't really amazing.  :chuckle:

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Re: whats the rule?
« Reply #30 on: July 25, 2012, 03:25:34 PM »
No, it isn't really amazing.  :chuckle:

Hey look, either your assumptions have merit or it's really amazing.  Can't be both.  ;)

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Re: whats the rule?
« Reply #31 on: July 25, 2012, 03:27:51 PM »
Yea, you're right, like I said, it isn't amazing. :chuckle:

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Re: whats the rule?
« Reply #32 on: July 25, 2012, 03:28:45 PM »
It's almost as if you assumed I said "isn't".   :chuckle:

Offline longrangekiller

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Re: whats the rule?
« Reply #33 on: July 25, 2012, 03:37:04 PM »
I think that your buddy may be tempted to use your rifle if the right bull presents itself, the little natches rifle hunt is open at the same time, and unless you are planning on putting a large sign on the side of your truck that states you are hunting with a muzzy who would know, I'd be willing to bet several muzzy bulls have been shot with a rifle during that hunt, I say don't tempt him

No that wouldn't happen. First I wouldn't let him second he aint that type of guy if he wanted a rifle tag he would have put in for one.
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Offline grundy53

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Re: whats the rule?
« Reply #34 on: July 25, 2012, 03:48:13 PM »
So I got a buddy that drew a peaches ridge muzzy bull tag and we went up scouting we found some good country lots of elk and lots of bear sighn. Since I won't be able to hunt bear very much this year for bear i was wondering if it is leagle for me to pack my rifle for bear while he is muzzy hunting elk?


In that manner it is not at all. I read it as they would both be carrying a muzzy with only one muzzy elk tag. You carrying a modern rifle with a bear tag is not in any way party hunting.

he said he would be packing his rifle  :dunno: don't know where you got party hunting out of that? Even if he was hunting bear with a muzzleloader you would be making one heck of an  assumption that they would be party hunting. I'm sure there are some guys who love hunting bear with muzzleloaders. As long as he has his tag that he paid for and the season is open then he has every right to hunt. Just my  :twocents:
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Offline grundy53

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Re: whats the rule?
« Reply #35 on: July 25, 2012, 03:51:25 PM »
I would check with WDFW first, but I think you can shoot a bear off a legally killed gut pile as long as you did not place it for the purpose of hunting bear. I also think you can legally hunt bear with your rifle while your partner hunts for elk with his bow. The same person cannot pack a rifle and bow in the field at the same time to hunt archery elk and rifle bear at the same time.

That is what I've been told by the game wardens I've talked to.
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Offline grundy53

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Re: whats the rule?
« Reply #36 on: July 25, 2012, 03:51:48 PM »
The things people assume here on HW is amazing.

 :yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah:
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Offline bearpaw

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Re: whats the rule?
« Reply #37 on: July 25, 2012, 04:13:00 PM »
I would check with WDFW first, but I think you can shoot a bear off a legally killed gut pile as long as you did not place it for the purpose of hunting bear. I also think you can legally hunt bear with your rifle while your partner hunts for elk with his bow. The same person cannot pack a rifle and bow in the field at the same time to hunt archery elk and rifle bear at the same time.

That is what I've been told by the game wardens I've talked to.

That's what I was told, but as Miles said....  :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:

It takes a couple minutes for anyone to call Olympia or a local warden and verify for themself.  :twocents:
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Offline trophyhunt

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Re: whats the rule?
« Reply #38 on: July 25, 2012, 05:37:26 PM »
Hunt bear with your muzzy if your friend don't mind and if he does get a shot at an elk, the second shot will be ready to go with your muzzy. I don't believe that is illegal or unethical, but I'm sure I'm about to find out.....
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Offline Jburke

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Re: whats the rule?
« Reply #39 on: July 26, 2012, 01:10:58 AM »
I think that the root of all of this goes back to the fact that party hunting happens all the time.  It's not right or legal but it's happening each year.  It's simply a reason for a warden to be skeptical of a situation.  If you're carrying your rifle and he's got his muzzy then it should be no problem.  Might you get questioned if you get stopped?  Yeah maybe, but as long as you have done nothing wrong you should have nothing to worry about.  We pay them to protect these resources that we pay ridiculous amounts of money to use.  Nothing personal, but I would expect them to question you both and would be disapointed if they didn't.   :twocents:

Offline grundy53

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Re: whats the rule?
« Reply #40 on: July 26, 2012, 05:29:59 AM »
I think that the root of all of this goes back to the fact that party hunting happens all the time.  It's not right or legal but it's happening each year.  It's simply a reason for a warden to be skeptical of a situation.  If you're carrying your rifle and he's got his muzzy then it should be no problem.  Might you get questioned if you get stopped?  Yeah maybe, but as long as you have done nothing wrong you should have nothing to worry about.  We pay them to protect these resources that we pay ridiculous amounts of money to use.  Nothing personal, but I would expect them to question you both and would be disapointed if they didn't.   :twocents:

I agree. But in the same breathe, Bear season is open then for any weapon and if there is a season open that you want to hunt you should be able to hunt it with whatever weapon you choose that is legal. Or else why is the season even open? Archery deer is open during archery elk. Are we so paranoid that we believe every "deer" hunter is really hunting elk? No. I don't see a difference. Like said leave it to the game wardens to do their job of thoroughly checking each hunter. If you are not doing anything illegal you have nothing to worry about. We on here don't need to assume everyone is a poacher.
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Re: whats the rule?
« Reply #41 on: July 26, 2012, 07:59:28 AM »
I called WDFW 2 seasons ago and asked if you could hunt bear and cats over the gut pile of a legally harvested animal and was told that yes, since it was legally harvested and was a by product of a legal harvest, not brought and dumped for the purpose of baiting that it is also pefectly legal to hunt over it.

Offline h20hunter

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Re: whats the rule?
« Reply #42 on: July 26, 2012, 08:01:29 AM »
Sounds way to logical for the state to agree!

Like I mentioned...........I agree with being able to do it.

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Re: whats the rule?
« Reply #43 on: July 26, 2012, 08:13:02 AM »
Sounds way to logical for the state to agree!

Like I mentioned...........I agree with being able to do it.

 :chuckle: :chuckle: maybe logic is contagious and there will be an outbreak in the WDFW...
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Re: whats the rule?
« Reply #44 on: August 20, 2012, 04:19:49 PM »
You know I always trust that people, when they know the law/rule, will make a good call!  I think that we just have very little trust in humanity.  Now this is in theory only, I have seen things out there that just blow my mind!

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Re: whats the rule?
« Reply #45 on: August 20, 2012, 08:01:20 PM »
Ill be hunting with the Pianoman 9-07. The plan is we try to get on one and then do a setup with me calling for him. However, i will have a lever gun slung on my back just in case we come across a bruin worth taking.  :tup:

 


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