Mount St. Helens National Monument

[Seabeckian]

Originally I thought this was a stupid question, but after all my research and still no firm answer, maybe not. I drew a tag for Margaret cow archery and until this season have not spent much time in the unit. I already know where I want to spend most my time, but as a backup plan I like to keep my options open and know where is legal and illegal to hunt.

Is all the Mount St. Helens National Volcanic Monument closed to hunting? Whereas it extends into the East side of the Margaret where I have a tag for?

I have checked the regs, looked online, and made about 25 phone calls today with no firm answer. One lady with the Region 5 office told me it was closed because it was federally owned, which didn't make sense since the Gifford-Pinchot is federally owned and legal to hunt in. This has become very frustrating and if anyone has any input, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Scott

[Crunchy]

it is open to hunt

[Ghost Hunter]

I'm scouting it, and I'll be hunting it.  I did have a lady at the Chelatchee offic tell me I couldn't leave the trail

[Seabeckian]

Thanks a lot guys. I hate being in the woods and in the wrong. 

Did you draw Margaret Ghost? Or an adjoining unit?

[Ghost Hunter]

Thanks a lot guys. I hate being in the woods and in the wrong. 

Did you draw Margaret Ghost? Or an adjoining unit?

Me and my boy drew Margaret, modern/bull for November.  Plan on getting cold, wet, and tired.

[fireweed]

The Loowit Unit is the only portion of the Monument that is closed to hunting, (and even it is open if you have an elk tag like Mudflow, or Whittier  .  Most of the Loowit is in the Monument.  The Rest of the Monument is open, and in different units like the Margaret, Toutle, etc.  The Margaret area in the Monument is open, but to camp in the "Mt. Margaret backcountry" you need a premit and to stay at a designated campsite.  But for a cow, you don't want to go there anyway.

[Bunny Thumper]

Been hunting it for 30 years, hope it's not closed.

[TONTO]

The closed portion is posted I believe, or atleast used to be. The closed portion is right around coldwater lake, from the lake to the road atop the ridge just north of the lake.

[fireweed]

The part TONTO is talking about is one of those lovely government boondoggles.  The land between the Coldwater trail and the top of the ridge is in the Margaret Unit, and OPEN according to the WDFW.  However, the USFS has it in their "administrative closure"--where they say you have to stay on the trail--so you can hunt it but can't leave the trail.  Truth is, this  closure is totally BOGUS and I've been fighting w/ the USFS to open it for years.  If you ever got a ticket there for walking off the trail, Fight it all they way because it is a backroom boondoggle, and will never stand up in court.  At one point the USFS told me you couldn't pack weapons or legally taken game through that area!!!  At least they backed off that.  How about someone other than me complaining in writing about this?

[Chesapeake]

I talked to a USFS Ranger at the Monument Headquarters last week about that area.

They said you can hunt from the trail and only leave the trail to fetch downed game. They seemed to know nothing of issueing an "off trail permit" to hunters as mentioned on the WDFW web site where it says to contact the USFS about getting one (Lately it says you'll get a letter from the USFS). They seemed to think they had never issued such a permit to a hunter for any of the hunts over the years for the Pummice plains, Margaret, or Mudflow even though all 3 areas seem to include lands specified as "off trail travel prohibited", and the hunts have been around for a few years now.

They seemed to believe the rule was "hunt from the trail, and only leave the trail to fetch downed game". But said I should speak with the area WDFW Officer to see what their rules were, as the Ranger wasnt positive on all the between department agreements for the hunts and wasnt aware of the WDFW's rules for such.

They also said they are working a deal for the visitor center with Omsi to do some kids science camps in the area of the Visitor center and that the lake trail was now a mountian bike trail and the west end of Coldwater was a "high use" area. They more or less asked that I dont discharge my gun in close proximity of the science camps/visitor center/west end of the lake during the October muzzy hunt, but also seemed to agree there was no law preventing such. They said the camps would be done, things closed down, and most visitors gone come the November rifle seasons, so not a concern for that time of the year.

The Ranger I spoke to made some calls about my questions on the "off trail permit" ect..... and didnt seem to come up with any real clear answers. Seemed to be a lack of communication between the WDFW and the USFS, or at least a lack of communication within the USFS about these hunts.

But, the Ranger was aware of the hunts in general as were the others in the office, so I guess thats a start. They also seemed interested in trying to answer my questions and spent a good deal of time discussing with me.

None in the office seemed to have anything official or have a good handle on any of the details. I wasnt surprised by any of it. Conversations with WDFW personell seem to go much the same.

Very polite and friendly, just no solid answers.

[fireweed]

First off--Don't believe ANYTHING the government tells you.  I learned this the hard way. Nobody knows--even the top guy--what the rules are and what they aren't.  Make them show you the law in WRITING.  Make them show you the "closure order".  I've even had to file freedom of Info. act to figure out how that area is supposed to be managed!!! 
The off trail permit you are talking about only is for Pumice Plain hunts.  (I have the Whittier bull tag and do not need an off trail permit, but to camp Mt. Margaret backcountry I need a camping permit and need to stay at their designated sites.)  to hunt Margaret you do not need so-called off trail permit.  Shooting from trails is illegal according to general USFS rules (from, across, toward etc).   That area of the margaret on the sidehill between the lake and the monument boundary has always been in limbo.  I tried to get them to follow what the Nat. Park does in most National recreation areas with hunting--1/4 mile around develped areas (like the Coldwater "learning center")  By law the USFS is required to Cooperate with the WDFW in this area but they are butting heads (mostly over fishing in Spirit Lake) and are having issues working well with others.  The new manager is better, but they still need a shove now and then.   If you see a bull on that side hill, as long as it's safe, shoot first, ask questions later.  The area is mostly abandoned that time of year anyway. 

[Bluesdude]

First off--Don't believe ANYTHING the government tells you.  I learned this the hard way. Nobody knows--even the top guy--what the rules are and what they aren't.  Make them show you the law in WRITING.  Make them show you the "closure order".  I've even had to file freedom of Info. act to figure out how that area is supposed to be managed!!! 
The off trail permit you are talking about only is for Pumice Plain hunts.  (I have the Whittier bull tag and do not need an off trail permit, but to camp Mt. Margaret backcountry I need a camping permit and need to stay at their designated sites.)  to hunt Margaret you do not need so-called off trail permit.  Shooting from trails is illegal according to general USFS rules (from, across, toward etc).   That area of the margaret on the sidehill between the lake and the monument boundary has always been in limbo.  I tried to get them to follow what the Nat. Park does in most National recreation areas with hunting--1/4 mile around develped areas (like the Coldwater "learning center")  By law the USFS is required to Cooperate with the WDFW in this area but they are butting heads (mostly over fishing in Spirit Lake) and are having issues working well with others.  The new manager is better, but they still need a shove now and then.   If you see a bull on that side hill, as long as it's safe, shoot first, ask questions later.  The area is mostly abandoned that time of year anyway.

Hey Fireweed, my brother has the Whitttier cow tag, we will see you in there!

[Chesapeake]

Hey Fireweed, my brother has the Whitttier cow tag, we will see you in there!

After having done the Margaret scouting I've done and seeing the Whittier unit, I fully understand the success rates on that tag. I bet most folks write it off as soon as they put boots on the ground and give it a look. I'm amazed that a guy would go in there with a cow tag.

[Bluesdude]

Hey Fireweed, my brother has the Whitttier cow tag, we will see you in there!

After having done the Margaret scouting I've done and seeing the Whittier unit, I fully understand the success rates on that tag. I bet most folks write it off as soon as they put boots on the ground and give it a look. I'm amazed that a guy would go in there with a cow tag.

Hey Chesapeake!  luckily as some members who we have helped with St helens tags will attest, my brother and I are not the average hunters.  I have been hiking in that country since I was 6 years old, and have been in the unit 8 times so far this summer.  We are using this hunt and associated backpack trip as a "shakedown" trip for when one of us draws the bull tag.  We also have some helpers availble to help us pack out.

[sirmissalot]

Hey Fireweed, my brother has the Whitttier cow tag, we will see you in there!

After having done the Margaret scouting I've done and seeing the Whittier unit, I fully understand the success rates on that tag. I bet most folks write it off as soon as they put boots on the ground and give it a look. I'm amazed that a guy would go in there with a cow tag.

Hey Chesapeake!  luckily as some members who we have helped with St helens tags will attest, my brother and I are not the average hunters.  I have been hiking in that country since I was 6 years old, and have been in the unit 8 times so far this summer.  We are using this hunt and associated backpack trip as a "shakedown" trip for when one of us draws the bull tag.  We also have some helpers availble to help us pack out.

That will be some hard earned meat! Should be fun