Wolf poachers - would you turn one in?

[pianoman9701]

I am really surprised at the 82.5% of the people would not turn in a poacher yet everyone here preaches about hunting legally... Kinda hypocritical if you ask me. Even as much as I disagree with the wolf reintroduction and hate what the wolves are doing to hunting in this state and other states, poaching is poaching and is a     

The only reason it isn't a 100% is that there are guys/ gals that haven't scene first hand what these creature have done.  They have put a lot of guides out of business in Idaho alone.  In specific areas, guys don't buy tags anymore.  When you go from having experiences that you could tell generations to stories of not even seeing animals in only 4-6 year period it opens peoples eyes wide open.  Lots of money and careful management have helped build these herds to where they were 8-10 years ago over a course of 50 years.  These wolves have changed this, like I mentioned in 4-6 years in specific areas.  This isn't the 1800's.  The old timers had ways to knock down the population from year around trapping, shooting and poisioning to get rid of them.  We have seasons, no poisioning, limits, and trapping bans in this state.  It seems minor now, but wait until this train gets rolling, it will change things drastically.  You will still find animals in peoples back yards until the wolves run low on food and come finding them.  The ones that can't jump the fence or run away will get taken out.

Nope, that's not it. The wolves are a symptom of a larger picture where anti-hunting fanatics have been able to convince some of the general public that hunting is extreme, more extreme than the fanatics themselves, and that it should be villainized and eventually, eliminated. The wolves are only a vehicle for them to achieve this; wolves are the pawns of the antis. One way they are able to do this is by pointing out that hunters are willing to flaunt the law and they point to threads like this to prove it. Hunters who stand up, even in the line of fire from their own ranks, and say that poaching of any kind is intolerable do so not because of their ignorance to the catastrophic damage caused by the reintroduction of these apex predators, but as a testament to the general public that we're not the extreme ones willing to take the law into our own hands, the antis are.

In my humble opinion, this thread is is divisive and does nothing positive to further the advancement of hunting and the sporting life in the eyes of the 97% of our public who don't hunt and don't understand hunting, especially with regards to wildlife conservation. A thread like this can cancel out, in the mind of the non-hunting public, all of the vast good that hunters do for our wildlife and environment. In addition, it serves to split us as a group and forces us to choose sides on an issue over which we've had little control. If this continues, the antis win, plain and simple. We must find a way to present a common, mainstream front to present to the majority of voters so we don't lose the little that remains for us and our passion. Voicing our willingness to ignore the law is not that mainstream front.

[RG]

Nope, that's not it. The wolves are a symptom of a larger picture where anti-hunting fanatics have been able to convince some of the general public that hunting is extreme, more extreme than the fanatics themselves, and that it should be villainized and eventually, eliminated. The wolves are only a vehicle for them to achieve this; wolves are the pawns of the antis. One way they are able to do this is by pointing out that hunters are willing to flaunt the law and they point to threads like this to prove it. Hunters who stand up, even in the line of fire from their own ranks, and say that poaching of any kind is intolerable do so not because of their ignorance to the catastrophic damage caused by the reintroduction of these apex predators, but as a testament to the general public that we're not the extreme ones willing to take the law into our own hands, the antis are.

In my humble opinion, this thread is is divisive and does nothing positive to further the advancement of hunting and the sporting life in the eyes of the 97% of our public who don't hunt and don't understand hunting, especially with regards to wildlife conservation. A thread like this can cancel out, in the mind of the non-hunting public, all of the vast good that hunters do for our wildlife and environment. In addition, it serves to split us as a group and forces us to choose sides on an issue over which we've had little control. If this continues, the antis win, plain and simple. We must find a way to present a common, mainstream front to present to the majority of voters so we don't lose the little that remains for us and our passion. Voicing our willingness to ignore the law is not that mainstream front.[/quote]


I agree with pianoman on this.  We have a lot more productive topics on here without getting to the level of would we commit a crime or not given the right circumstances.  These forums are monitored by people like our old friend Humanure and his vast list of cronies.  This isn't the message we should be sending out there.  I'm certainly not a wolf guy and I can't wait till we can buy 5 wolf tags here like you can in other states.  I'll be at the front of that line. 

[pianoman9701]

Me too. When it's legal to shoot wolves, I intend to do my part to the utmost of my ability.

[bearpaw]

I guess I look at this a little differently, this is not just a hunting issue. I see this issue as a misguided law forced upon rural residents by urban wolf lovers and naive agency managers who have no worries of having to deal with wolves or lose their livelihood to wolves. This issue affects rural residents, rural businesses, and ranchers as well as hunters. This wolf plan is a law that needs changed and the opinions expressed in this topic illustrate how flawed this wolf plan is.

The local radio station in Stevens County reports on the cattlemen regularly here in Stevens County and the local people talk about wolves on the streets of local towns the same way hunters talk about them on this forum. Take a ride to some rural towns in Idaho, you will find those people are far more vociferous about the wolf issue because they have been suffering the impacts for a longer time. There are restaurants, motels, and other businesses that have suffered because hunters quit going to Idaho. Idahoans eventually got their wolf plan changed by speaking out.

I am not one who will break the law but I also do not think we should hide the truth. I think the fact that so many people are speaking out is a testament to the need to change the Washington Wolf Plan. It's not only hunters, that my

[Special T]

Pman i think you are right that this has more to do with antis than just wolves. Wolves just seem to be the most effective animal that they have gotten their hands on.
   I respect your desire, and other hunters, to play by the rules and rise above taking the high road. However taking the high road and working within the system will NOT help rancher or our deer and elk herds.
   We should not forget the lessons learned by our neighbors! DELAY is a tactic! ID and MT are/were much more skeptical as a whole than here in WA, and they still are/were unable to stop this decline in herds and property loss.
   DoL and other antis have shaped and framed the debate. While they have us talking about IF we should take out a pack because of damages, wolves are breeding and dispersing. The State is NOT working very hard to document packs. let us remember that we need 18 packs in one year or ?15? for 3 year consecutively... We know how the antis work just see how the lawsuits pile up in other states as they try to manage "recovered" populations.
   We need to re frame the debate, not participate in the current one. WY is the ONLY state that has had a chance BECAUSE they told the feds to Pound Sand From day one. IF we want to get some where we NEED to push the Repeal of the ESA. I pray that when we get a new President, congress and Governor that we may make some head way on this issue.

Spotted owl, Salmon, Mazama pocket gophers.... Wolves... these are ALL ESA protected species that have affected our lives, and i believe that the Antis have found their magic animal... All other animals have kept us divided usually geographically. Our one chance to change this awful course is to scrap the ESA...

[pianoman9701]

I have no problem with changing the debate, T. I only have a problem giving ammunition to the antis which they'll use against us. This thread is such a tool.

[Special T]

They will always have ammo.  I think that this poll can actually be used to prove how this issue has been so mismanaged.  This issue aside, when people are ignored, taken advantage of, or lied to and effects them they take matters into thier own hands. 

[Special T]

I think its more important for a good Offence than playing defence.

[pianoman9701]

By all means, we ABSOLUTELY SHOULD go on the offensive against our wolf plan which is reckless and underestimates the damage it will surely bring, or already has. But, don't include with that a thread which ask hunters, in a publicly-viewed forum, whether or not they'll turn a blind eye to illegal acts. One is a stand against idiocy and the other is what many non-hunters would see as a stand against  law and order. Why do we need to do both? We don't.

[Bean Counter]

One of many reasons to make this thread private and out of the public view. 

[Special T]

In this state we are currently talking about telling state officials NOT to enforce FEDERAL law when it comes to Marijuana.
How is it ANY different when citizens  discuss not enforcing the other laws that we think are unjust?

I personally don't care about weed, but know people who ARE adamant about the negative effects of it. THAT discussion seems to be OK but this one is not. WHY? Because it is less socially acceptable? By whom?

Part of the reason WHY we have this problem with wolves is because so many people are ignorant  to the issue. There is a saying in advertising that ALL news is good news! The more this issue is placed in front of people the better chance we have At educating them. It may do less good here where we are preaching to the Choir, however i have had some good discussions with non hunting relatives because of articles i have forwarded to them. BTW they did not necessarily pain hunters in a good light either.

[Bean Counter]

In this state we are currently talking about telling state officials NOT to enforce FEDERAL law when it comes to Marijuana.
....

Afterall, we can't have Arizona assisting in the enforcement of federal immigration laws.   

[pianoman9701]

One of many reasons to make this thread private and out of the public view. 

Yes, exactly.

[pianoman9701]

In this state we are currently talking about telling state officials NOT to enforce FEDERAL law when it comes to Marijuana.
How is it ANY different when citizens  discuss not enforcing the other laws that we think are unjust?

I personally don't care about weed, but know people who ARE adamant about the negative effects of it. THAT discussion seems to be OK but this one is not. WHY? Because it is less socially acceptable? By whom?

Part of the reason WHY we have this problem with wolves is because so many people are ignorant  to the issue. There is a saying in advertising that ALL news is good news! The more this issue is placed in front of people the better chance we have At educating them. It may do less good here where we are preaching to the Choir, however i have had some good discussions with non hunting relatives because of articles i have forwarded to them. BTW they did not necessarily pain hunters in a good light either.

Special T, you're comparing apples to oranges. It would be one thing if there were a vote of the people in WA which said we can kill wolves on sight. Then we'd be defying the feds as a state. That would be the only way there'd be a valid comparison to legalizing pot and the wolf issue.

There's no reason we can't oppose the state without endorsing illegal activity regarding the wolves. Why do we have to give the antis so much ammunition with which to defeat us? I don't get why you insist that it's OK to publicly support wolf poaching when it will do our sport so much harm.

[Special T]

I'm NOT supporting  poaching.  I'm  not taddling on my neighbor  for something i think the state should be doing... It is NOT my job or YOUR job to help enforce unjust laws. (BTW i thought this discussion was about not turning some one in, NOT about me pulling a trigger.)

If you neighbor burns dimensional lumber do you turn them in for breaking the law? If you neighbor grades more than 6k sq feet do you tell the county about it?

When there is a disconnect between laws and reality it think it IS important to talk about it. We must point it out for others to see.