Observations from Okanogan Area?

[ghosthunter]

Been Hunting Twisp area for 20 years. keep going back hoping it will be better. And knowing it is bad county wide. The season is for sur too early. But there is something else going on.
The last five years have been in the dumpster. We took two does. saw one spike. Arrived Thursday before opener and stayed till this past Monday.

Pittiful

There were 25 camps in my general area. I never saw a buck hanging. i spent 30 minutes a day on the car seat and the rest of the time hiking into every place I knew.

NOTHING

[huntnphool]

    We have this arguement every year and of course I still think it would be devastating to have the season later.  We have already witnessed what it did the last time they tried that stunt.  Sure, you guys can knock em dead for a year.  Good luck the year after.

I choose to think of it as a discussion between enthusiasts.

 The problem Bone is the guys complaining can't have it both ways. Either they except the fact that ending the season on the 21st...ish will have you fighting over the non migratory local deer until they are gone and seeing little after that, or you extend the season through the next week and have a few of the migrators harvested.

 Like I said, the last good year of hunting in the Methow Valley was 04, everyone will agree. What has happened since then to have the hunting go to sh#@? Bears, cougars, yotes and wolves, loss of habitat? Or is it more likely that its because they have removed the most productive dates from the season? I know you understand this is the case, but it sounds like a lot of these guys don't.

[SkookumHntr]

2004 was epic!

[Alchase]

In 20 minutes I counted 128 deer in the meadow by Eagle Pine cabins on Sunday after the opener. Not one antler in the bunch. I saw dear every where I went, just no bucks. No where  near the normal amount of fawns I usually see. that concerns me more then anything. Twins and even triplets are common up there, not this year.
Opening morning I heard 2 shots. One I know got a decent 3x4.
We use to see hundreds of bucks and does every night in the meadow above Pearygin.
Of course that was when the season ran through Halloween.
I totally agree with the season starting as early as it is only the local bucks get hunted.

[huntnphool]

That's interesting Alchase, we were seeing more twins than not.

[WAcoueshunter]

The problem Bone is the guys complaining can't have it both ways. Either they except the fact that ending the season on the 21st...ish will have you fighting over the non migratory local deer until they are gone and seeing little after that, or you extend the season through the next week and have a few of the migrators harvested.

 Like I said, the last good year of hunting in the Methow Valley was 04, everyone will agree. What has happened since then to have the hunting go to sh#@? Bears, cougars, yotes and wolves, loss of habitat? Or is it more likely that its because they have removed the most productive dates from the season? I know you understand this is the case, but it sounds like a lot of these guys don't.

I agree with you 100% on the cause of the low numbers...there just aren't any migratory deer in the traditional areas this early in the season.  You constantly here about people 'hunting the same area for fifty years' like that should make them an expert and get them a buck every year.  But the reality is that most of their experience regarding locations and patterns was learned under very different circumstances.  With the earlier seasons, people need to adjust where they are hunting, and most aren't doing that yet.   

[huntnphool]

The problem Bone is the guys complaining can't have it both ways. Either they except the fact that ending the season on the 21st...ish will have you fighting over the non migratory local deer until they are gone and seeing little after that, or you extend the season through the next week and have a few of the migrators harvested.

 Like I said, the last good year of hunting in the Methow Valley was 04, everyone will agree. What has happened since then to have the hunting go to sh#@? Bears, cougars, yotes and wolves, loss of habitat? Or is it more likely that its because they have removed the most productive dates from the season? I know you understand this is the case, but it sounds like a lot of these guys don't.

I agree with you 100% on the cause of the low numbers...there just aren't any migratory deer in the traditional areas this early in the season.  You constantly here about people 'hunting the same area for fifty years' like that should make them an expert and get them a buck every year.  But the reality is that most of their experience regarding locations and patterns was learned under very different circumstances.  With the earlier seasons, people need to adjust where they are hunting, and most aren't doing that yet.   

Bingo!!!

[Colville]

There's only so many ways to slice the onion of hunt opportunity days to population dynamics.  If we want to hunt later, mule deer will have to go draw only.

If you want to hunt every year, you have to hunt more marginal dates so that the net impact is the same. There just aren't perfect solutions. I'd personally rather hunt every year and know that I have to get way the hell back up where the migrators are at that time than hunt every 3rd year.

The state knows they'll lose a ton of their hunting license revenue if that happens as well so I don't expect them to go that route.

[MtnMuley]

The problem Bone is the guys complaining can't have it both ways. Either they except the fact that ending the season on the 21st...ish will have you fighting over the non migratory local deer until they are gone and seeing little after that, or you extend the season through the next week and have a few of the migrators harvested.

 Like I said, the last good year of hunting in the Methow Valley was 04, everyone will agree. What has happened since then to have the hunting go to sh#@? Bears, cougars, yotes and wolves, loss of habitat? Or is it more likely that its because they have removed the most productive dates from the season? I know you understand this is the case, but it sounds like a lot of these guys don't.

I agree with you 100% on the cause of the low numbers...there just aren't any migratory deer in the traditional areas this early in the season.  You constantly here about people 'hunting the same area for fifty years' like that should make them an expert and get them a buck every year.  But the reality is that most of their experience regarding locations and patterns was learned under very different circumstances.  With the earlier seasons, people need to adjust where they are hunting, and most aren't doing that yet.   

Bingo!!!

[M_ray]

The problem Bone is the guys complaining can't have it both ways. Either they except the fact that ending the season on the 21st...ish will have you fighting over the non migratory local deer until they are gone and seeing little after that, or you extend the season through the next week and have a few of the migrators harvested.

 Like I said, the last good year of hunting in the Methow Valley was 04, everyone will agree. What has happened since then to have the hunting go to sh#@? Bears, cougars, yotes and wolves, loss of habitat? Or is it more likely that its because they have removed the most productive dates from the season? I know you understand this is the case, but it sounds like a lot of these guys don't.

I agree with you 100% on the cause of the low numbers...there just aren't any migratory deer in the traditional areas this early in the season.  You constantly here about people 'hunting the same area for fifty years' like that should make them an expert and get them a buck every year.  But the reality is that most of their experience regarding locations and patterns was learned under very different circumstances.  With the earlier seasons, people need to adjust where they are hunting, and most aren't doing that yet.   

Bingo!!!

Ding, Ding, Ding ... we have a winner! 

[M_ray]

There's only so many ways to slice the onion of hunt opportunity days to population dynamics.  If we want to hunt later, mule deer will have to go draw only.

This is what the WDFW wants you to believe  I for one am not buying what they are selling ... again if you don't believe me then wait two, three weeks and take another drive to the Okanogan and see for yourself. It will make you mad when you see what Fitkin says is true and that the herds are in fine shape.

Look every year I say it and will say it again ... a season that runs until the end of Oct wouldn't hurt a thing. I know its hard for some of you to believe cause the dept has you drinking their Koolaide but twenty plus years ago the season was longer than it is and ran into Nov AND there were more hunters. That type of pressure on the early part of the migration did not hurt a thing and did not decimate the herds as some of you have suggested it will. The hunting pressure was spread out cause not everyone was forced to take the same week off, there were those that didn't feel the need to spank the first thing that came by and young local deer were left to walk which doesn't happen anymore.

The Dept could do this and with the few late permits given there would still be plenty for breeding and yes even back then with (if my memory serves me correct) 125,000 more hunters there were still deer that made it through or we would have any today.

Days were taken away and season pushed into mid Oct  because there were a few winters with bad winter kill the herds needed the rehab. We did our part by complying now Fitkin do yours and give back what was taken away! 

[nw_bowhunter]

I hunt Conconulley for archery every year and love the place. That being said I have noticed a decline of deer and the overall numbers significantly lower! I feel this has been ongoing for min of 5 years. I did notice that a few of my usual spots I was seeing more whitetails than normal. Seeing lots of young twins and "NOT" as many mature does are with these young deer. I was up there for 4 days and passed on multiple shots simply because the does were just to young. If I did see a buck in most case it was a small 2pt. weather was very hot, moon, etc didn't help but these are factors every year during archery.
I agree about seeing more bear scat than normal. From my perspective I find myself more concerned with the "archery hunters" up there who are continuing the decline of mule deer due to wounding perfectly healthy animals. Way to much of this going on! Take some time to practice and make better shots. I tried to put down a doe which had a broken leg from poor shot by another hunter but just couldn't get a good shot. Not to mention the continued abuse of road hunting, etc. Something needs to change over there or we are going to be in some serious trouble.  I'm sure other situations are affecting the decline as well.

[nw_bowhunter]

Also, part of the other issue is that hunters in this area are seeing less of the residental deer therefor the statements of decline.

[huntnphool]

Days were taken away and season pushed into mid Oct  because there were a few winters with bad winter kill the herds needed the rehab. We did our part by complying now Fitkin do yours and give back what was taken away! 

They will give them back alright but don't be surprised if they do it in the form of another "permit" hunt. Wouldn't surprise me at all to see them try to generate more revenue by coming up with a "Early Quality" category that runs from the end of the general eastside hunt through the end of Oct.

[Ridgerunner]

I personally would like to see a  buck category hunt in Chelan and okanogan counties that went from the end of the season and ran ten days.  Give out 75 to 100 tags per unit.