Copper versus Lead

[Bean Counter]

it is a cost decision for me. Hunting already cost a lot between tags and feel all alone. I prefer to zero and target with my hunting rounds. it's not just the cost of the round shooting the animal, it's all the rounds that go through my hunting rifle.

a catalytic converter is an added expense to owning an automobile. However, I don't mind laws requiring one as there is an identified environmental benefit to using one. Don't see that with copper vs lead rounds. If you like copper, more power to ya.

[KFhunter]

I can understand shotguns being restricted to non-tovix shot in high usage waterfowl areas and phesant release sites.

that's about it.

[sirmissalot]

Yes, copper is more than strong enough to do the job.  The Barnes line does a great job on critters....just wish they were cannelured.

Not sure what you mean, the triple shock line of Barnes are cannelured. At least for me the grooves line up to be able to use it as a cannelure... Guess I don't know if you can really call it that though. But they are grooved!

[csaaphill]

 
yuck don't give the EPA more ammo.
That's why I hope the hunting bill passes so we don't have to listen to peoples crap.

[thinkingman]

leads been used for how long ? kinda weird how new studies come out that support the sale of "new" products...

 

These 'studies' are nothing new.

some tiny amount of the deer comes in contact with the bullet, and a tiny amount of the copper comes "off" on that tiny amount of meat, that, if it is a heart/lung shot,  Or most Kill shots, is not meat you will eat anyway. This is a total load of BULL CRAP,

geeeez people, did God give you a brain? Stop trusting "studies".
Carl

Carl!  No desert until you finish your lead chips!
And don't forget to lick your fingers after reloading a couple hundred rounds!

In re cost, I can sight in and fill my tags for the cost of a couple of gallons of fuel.
Or a pack of cigarettes, if I smoked.
Barnes TSX are match-grade hunting bullets.
Much more concentric and reliable than cup and core.
No reason not to use them unless you are varmint shooting in volume.
And, yes, lead does kill and disable wildlife.
Same reason poisoning vermine and highly-toxic farming chemicals are banned.
We all live downstream.

[BULLBLASTER]

I was curious about this last year and it so happened that kryptek girlfriend was working for an environmental lab that tested for heavy metal. She took a scrap of meat from the bullet wound and also a piece of the liver. She ran them through all tests and every one was negative for heavy metals negative for phosphates... and negative for anything else she tested for( I forgot what else). This deer was shot with a nosler ballistic tip. She said most of the water they test (municipal supply or most wells) are worse for you than the deer meat from a metal standpoint.
as for Barnes bullets being match grade... I beg to differ and will stick with my lead core bullets for now. I have tried Barnes in numerous rifles and have not been real impressed personally. They do work tho.

[copasj]

There are studies that show lead bullets are harmful and others that show it is harmless.  One or the other is lying and no real way for a layman to tell which.

Here is my opinion on the matter.  People were hunting with lead slugs for centuries, but lead poisoning deaths dropped off once we stopped using lead based cups etc.  Not to mention casting bullets is going to expose you to far more ingested lead than what you would get from eating game meat.   

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[BULLBLASTER]

There are studies that show lead bullets are harmful and others that show it is harmless.  One or the other is lying and no real way for a layman to tell which.
Here is my opinion on the matter.  People were hunting with lead slugs for centuries, but lead poisoning deaths dropped off once we stopped using lead based cups etc.  Not to mention casting bullets is going to expose you to far more ingested lead than what you would get from eating game meat.   
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not to mention eating fish or shellfish.

[Bofire]

  waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, calls em as I sees em, if yer looking for PC don't read my posts.
Carl

[Wacenturion]

Is it right to assume with say Barnes TSX or TTSX that the following are pluses.....

1.  You can use a lighter bullet with less recoil ending up with little loss in grain weight upon entering the animal, therefore equaling a heavier lead bullet that is slower and loses grains from splintering upon entering said animal as far as final grain weight.

2.  Because the bullet is lighter you have more velocity and less drop at similar distances than a heavier lead bullet.  Therefore perhaps more accurate?

3.  Speeds kills vs. heavier kills.   

[Bob33]

Is it right to assume with say Barnes TSX or TTSX that the following are pluses.....

1.  You can use a lighter bullet with less recoil ending up with little loss in grain weight upon entering the animal, therefore equaling a heavier lead bullet that is slower and loses grains from splintering upon entering said animal as far as final grain weight.

2.  Because the bullet is lighter you have more velocity and less drop at similar distances than a heavier lead bullet.  Therefore perhaps more accurate?

3.  Speeds kills vs. heavier kills.   

My opinions:
1. Yes. A 150 grain bullet that retains 100% of its weight exits an animal weighing 150 grains. A 180 grain bullet that loses 35% to 40% of its weight (like a Nosler Partition) weighs 110 grains when exiting.  The rest is inside the animal.
2. Up to a certain distance, yes.  Everything else being equal a lighter bullet has a lower BC and loses velocity faster than a more aerodynamic, heavier bullet. At very long distances (over 500 yards, for sake of discussion) a heavier bullet will catch up and surpass a lighter bullet.
3. That's a topic of endless debate. If speed alone kills we'd all shoot elephants with .22 caliber bullets going 4500 feet per second.

[bobcat]

Barnes bullets, or any of the other 100% copper bullets, are what you want if you want an exit hole.

Having an exit hole usually means a much better blood trail.

That's the main reason I like Barnes bullets. I do want to try the new Nosler e-tip. I like supporting Nosler since they are made right next door in Oregon.

[Wacenturion]

The reason I asked is because I'm getting set up to reload.  Have reloaded shotshells for years, but new to rifle and pistol.  Have a Hornady L&L progessive press and a Hornady single stage.  Been doing a lot of research and planning on going exclusively with Barnes TTSX or TSX.

[h20hunter]

I think one of the main things you will need to do is tweak your loads a bit when using the Barnes...they tend to be a little longer than others. I've used the Barnes with good success and it sounds like a good starting point.

[kentrek]

The reason I asked is because I'm getting set up to reload.  Have reloaded shotshells for years, but new to rifle and pistol.  Have a Hornady L&L progessive press and a Hornady single stage.  Been doing a lot of research and planning on going exclusively with Barnes TTSX or TSX.

one draw back i hear from guys is that these bullets poke holes, letting game run further,but it gives ya two holes so at least you can follow them,unless it rains or snows.. ..the lead bullets poke A hole an then blow up which in my opinion results in way more damage and shorter tracking jobs

what would you rather be shot by ??.. hypothetically speaking of coarse, id rather not have a grenade go off inside me

but this is a Chevy vs ford argument,they all get ya down the road