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Author Topic: 2012 Governors and Raffle Tags  (Read 70514 times)

Offline Maverick

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Re: 2012 Governors and Raffle Tags
« Reply #180 on: January 02, 2013, 11:23:22 AM »
neither do I, but what I do have an issue with is the record book entries for these animals they SHOULD not be in the same category as a DIY public land or OTC hunt period

I agree with this. At least note in the books that this bull was taken with a govenor or raffle tag and if it was a guided hunt or not. I see no problem with this. I think its fair for anyone to know that looks at a dandy bull in the books.

Offline Skyvalhunter

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Re: 2012 Governors and Raffle Tags
« Reply #181 on: January 02, 2013, 11:51:47 AM »
Might as well throw in was shot with a 300 Rem Mag, 175gr Nosler Partition from a Bog Tripod in the notes while you are at it..
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Offline Bob33

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Re: 2012 Governors and Raffle Tags
« Reply #182 on: January 05, 2013, 09:55:50 AM »
"Follow the money.".

http://www.nmwildlife.org/images/uploads/Fall_2012.pdf

By Joel Gay
New Mexico Wildlife Federation

Over the last 20 years hunters have shelled out millions of dollars for big game license auctions and raffles in New Mexico and elsewhere in the West, sometimes paying huge sums because the money benefits habitat and management.

But the number of public hunting licenses diverted into what are commonly known as “governor tags” has risen dramatically in recent years and an increasing number of hunters are growing uncomfortable about the situation. Among their concerns:
• That taking licenses out of the public draw and selling them undermines a basic tenet of our hunting heritage by allowing a few to “buy their way to the head of the line;”
• That some sportsmen’s organizations conducting auctions and raffles are keeping too much of the proceeds or are not transparent about how the funds are used;
• That some auction/raffle licenses have far more liberal regulations than regular hunts, making them a form of “legalized poaching” and flooding the record books with suspect animals;
• That some state wildlife agencies are so reliant on auction/raffle revenues that they’re molding management to support the special license sales.

It’s hard to argue against any program that pays for wildlife habitat and big game management, and many hunters maintain that the special auctions and raffles continue to do more good than harm. But others, including the prestigious Boone and Crockett Club and well-known outdoor writers like Guy Eastman say it’s time to reassess special license sales.

“I think people have hit the saturation point,” Eastman told New Mexico Wildlife Federation recently. “Hunters are saying this is out of control, that enough is enough.”

Good program gone too far?
Albuquerque hunter Brandon Wynn said he generally supports New Mexico’s special license sales, known officially as the Big Game Enhancement Program (see sidebar). The Department of Game and Fish provides about 20 licenses every year to a small number of organizations to raffle or auction. Most of the proceeds go to habitat restoration and big game management.

But Wynn said he was not happy when the state Legislature this year added two more bighorn sheep tags to the mix. The state now donates four ram licenses for auction or raffle, yet offers only 28 ram tags in the Big Game Draw.

“It’s too much,” Wynn said of the addition. New Mexico has had one of the most successful sheep programs in the nation, he said, removing desert bighorn from the state endangered species list. “And they did all that with just two auction and raffle tags,” Wynn said. “If they want to auction more elk, that’s fine. But more sheep? No.”

Like many hunters, Wynn said he’s noticed a creeping expansion of special license auctions and raffles throughout the West. New Mexico’s program started in 1990 with a single bighorn sheep tag auction. In 2000, a bighorn raffle was added, along with an elk auction and raffle. Two deer tags were offered in 2004. Four years later the state created two Grand Slam packages, each of which auctions five tags – elk, deer, antelope, oryx and ibex. A Gould’s turkey auction came in 2009. The two additional bighorn licenses will be auctioned and raffled this winter.

Other state programs are growing too. Earlier this year the Idaho Legislature passed a bill providing 12 more auction tags to nonprofit organizations. The licenses come on top of the 30 already sold in the state’s Supertag raffle.

Wyoming for many years gave its governor 20 tags to donate to charities of his choice. Several years ago the seven members of the Wyoming Game and Fish Commission started getting eight big game tags each – 56 total – to donate to charity.

Arizona for years has provided 30 licenses for conservation groups to auction or raffle. But in early 2012 Arizona Sportsmen for Wildlife (SFW) got a bill introduced in the state Legislature that would have given their organization 350 tags to sell during a sportsman’s expo.

The Arizona bill drew swift condemnation from hunters all over the West, including unanimous opposition by the Arizona Game and Fish Commission and a harsh letter from the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation. In the face of overwhelming opposition, the sponsor withdrew the legislation. Arizona SFW seems to have disappeared, too, taking down its website.

Eastman, an avid do-it-yourself hunter who publishes Eastmans’ Hunting Journals, said the increase in governor’s tags has been like an arms race among western states that has led to some disturbing trends. “The states and conservation organizations are in it to get as much money for that tag as possible, and when you open yourself up to that kind of situation, the sky’s the limit,” Eastman said. “Money corrupts…. It’s really a slippery slope for everyone involved.”

Follow the money
The first auctions seemed necessary and important, according to Eastman and others. States needed more money than they had available to help rebuild bighorn sheep stocks, and tag auctions were seen as a good way to raise revenue for habitat and management.

But over time, the special license sales have ballooned out of control, he said. States and organizations now compete to find ways to attract more hunters to their auctions and raffles and to ensure the tag winner gets a trophy animal – which then spurs interest in next year’s sales.

What started in most states with a single tag steadily expanded into what is now practically an industry. The state that invariably comes up when the talk (or blogs) turn to governor tags is Utah.

Since the early 1980s Utah has had a Conservation Permit program that provided licenses to conservation groups to auction – more than 500 of them, according to Tyler Boulter, vice president of the Utah hunting group United Wildlife Cooperative. The program aims to benefit wildlife, but by law the Utah Division of Wildlife Resources gets just 30 percent of the proceeds. The auction groups can keep 10 percent for administrative costs, and they’re supposed to spend the remaining 60 percent on habitat work.

Then in 2005, the Utah Wildlife Board created “Convention Permits” specifically to support the annual Western Hunting and Conservation Expo in Salt Lake City. The board donates 200 tags to the convention sponsors – Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife and the Mule Deer Foundation – to raffle.

But unlike the Conservation Permits, there are no habitat or big game management spending requirements for the Convention Permits, Boulter said. In August the Salt Lake Tribune reported that the 2012 convention permits raised $1 million for SFW and MDF, but that the two groups kept $613,572 – more than 60 percent – for “show expenses.”

Boulter’s group gathered more than 1,000 signatures on a petition asking the Utah Wildlife Board to adopt stricter limits on how the auction proceeds can be spent and reported. According to Boulter, the board said it couldn’t change the program now because it has contracts in place for another four years.

Boulter said Utah’s massive tag giveaways have influenced wildlife management in the state, in part because of the overall economic value of the auctions and raffles but also because some of the beneficiary organizations play an outsize role in state wildlife politics.

“Influence being what it is, it is rather easy for the organizations to influence policy that increases the value and demand of these tags, increasing their bottom line and further strengthening their influence,” Boulter said in an e-mail to NMWF. “Add this to the constituents of certain organizations – guides, outfitters, landowners, etc. – and we see public opportunity being consumed by commerce. In my mind this goes directly against the public trust doctrine and the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation.”

It’s a troubling development, not only in Utah but elsewhere, he added. “I believe the ‘business’ of wildlife and hunting is spinning out of control, and if something isn’t done soon, it may be irreversible and will eventually turn our heritage into one that is similar to the model in Europe.”

Boulter’s group was not the only organization taken aback by the Utah tag sale revelations. In an open letter published in June, Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation CEO David Allen called on all groups that receive auction tags anywhere to better explain how their special license proceeds are allocated and spent.

“When dealing with these special auction or raffle hunting permits we are dealing with a public trust,” Allen wrote. “It is imperative that we are as open and transparent as possible when we assume the responsibility of selling these permits.”

Guy Eastman said he believes that some organizations, such as the Elk Foundation, do a good job explaining how their auctions and raffles benefit wildlife and habitat, but that should be the rule, not the exception. “I think they [recipient groups] should have to outline every dollar they get and where it went,” he told NMWF.

Most states require that a substantial portion (typically 80 to 90 percent) of the funds revert to the state for habitat or management work. Under agreements negotiated with each nonprofit, New Mexico currently gets 90 percent of auction proceeds and 70 to 90 percent of raffle funds. At least two states – Montana and Idaho – raffle some or all of their own tags, keeping 100 percent of the proceeds.

Liberalized rules can yield trophy results
The auction and raffle money trail is a concern among hunters, but not the only one. Many believe that special license hunts are corrupting the record books. In 2008, Andrew McKean, the hunting editor for Outdoor Life magazine, wrote a scathing column after a governor tag hunter took a world-record bull elk in Utah. Denny Austad paid nearly $170,000 for his tag, which allowed him to use a rifle during muzzleloader season and gave him and his team of guides almost two weeks to stalk the 478 5/8 (nontypical) bull.

“I will argue until I die,” McKean wrote, “that his achievement is less remarkable than a do-it-yourself hunter who invests a season hunting hard for a bull that may have less headgear but was earned with more sweat, boot leather, patience and passion.”

Eastman said one of his main objections to governor tags is when they can be used year-round with any weapon. It’s bad for herds and bad for hunting, he said. “You’re paying to do what no one else is allowed to do,” he continued. “It’s just a license to poach.”

Earlier this year a hunter took a 440- inch, 7x8 bull in northern Arizona using a governor tag, though it isn’t clear what month it was shot. Many hunters wrote in to the Outdoor Life forum with congratulations. But “Elkboy” said he was not impressed:

“AZ’s Governor’s elk tag allows the holder to pay six figures to hunt any day of the year anywhere in the state with any weapon. … Jealous? Not one bit. Annoyed? Absolutely.”

Arizona is one of a handful of states where governor tags can be used all year. Wyoming is just the opposite, where auction tags are for the regular season only. Other states, including New Mexico, provide a longer season (deer and elk, for example, can be hunted Sept. 1 through Jan. 31) and the use of any weapon.

One of the biggest bulls ever taken in New Mexico was shot in early January 2008 by Tod Reichert, using a $40,000 governor tag. The bull, a 7x7 taken with a rifle, measured 441 3/8.

Two years later, another New Mexico governor tag winner took a 419-inch bull in late January. According to published reports, an outfitter spotted the bull in early November and tracked it for three months. The hunter shot it Jan. 30.

The Boone and Crockett Club voiced concerns about the effect that governor tags are having on the record books in a 2009 statement by Vice President Eldon “Buck” Buckner. He told the Western Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies that the auction and raffle tags are a valuable source of revenue, but that they are losing support from regular hunters.

“At Boone and Crockett Club, we’ve seen signs of increasing dissatisfaction with big game auction tags among the rank and file hunting community for several years,” Buckner said.

Some of it is jealousy, he continued, but “much comes from perceived abuse of the system. Many feel that auction tag holders receive too many perks,” including extra-long seasons, weapon choice, special assistance by state game personnel and over-use of guides and spotters. Buckner concluded by saying “there is still time to heed the warning signs” and improve the special auction system.

Where to from here?
But even since the Boone and Crockett statement in 2009, the number of auctions and raffles has increased, as has the ire of hunters like Eastman, whose publications reach tens of thousands of sportsmen. He was so angered by a Montana governor tag hunt in 2010 that he called on all western governors to stop giving out the tags and vowed to quit any conservation organization that auctions open-ended tags.

He was specifically angered by a Montana bighorn sheep hunt in the Missouri Breaks area. The wealthy hunter who bought the tag paid local landowners to block others from reaching the area he wanted to hunt, and hired three men to track a big ram for 100 days, Eastman wrote.

“I am openly asking each and every Western Governor to give those tags back to the people they belong to, the hunters,” he continued. “This system, although it had good intentions in the beginning, has completely gone awry with waste, greed and corruption.”

Especially on blogs and discussion forums, hunters have proposed numerous ways to change and improve the special license system. Eastman acknowledges that he may be in the minority, but said he would eliminate auctions and raffles altogether – put the licenses back in the public draw and cover the revenue shortfall the way all other conservation is funded, through sportsmen’s license fees, he said.

Others have suggested simply eliminating the auctions. If all the special licenses were raffled and there were a reasonable limit on the number of tickets a hunter could buy, the average Joe could spend $5 or $10 and also have a chance of being a winner.

More than one hunter has argued on forums like MonsterMuleys.com that special licenses should be restricted to the same season and weapon type as everyone else in that hunt. Some have said tags should be non-transferable (New Mexico is one of few, if any, states that allow a license winner to sell an auction or raffle tag).

In light of the financial transparency issues raised in Utah, hunters have said states should receive a high percentage of all special license proceeds and ensure that hunters can find out how much was received and what it was spent on.

Perhaps the most radical plan for reforming the governor tag auctions was posed by hunter Bill Schneider in 2009. He wrote in response to headlines about the jaw-dropping amounts paid for auction tags. Writing on the blog New West, he said:

“I believe many of the well-heeled hunters who bid on these trophy tags do it in part because they intend to contribute to wildlife conservation,” he wrote, asking: So why not return the tags to draw hunters and let the wealthiest vie for who can contribute the most directly to conservation?

“Then, the headlines would read ‘Utah hunter gives $205,000 to mule deer research,’ or ‘Illinois hunter donates $245,000 to wild sheep preservation.’”
« Last Edit: January 05, 2013, 11:54:16 AM by Bob33 »
Nature. It's cheaper than therapy.

Offline gotcha

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Re: 2012 Governors and Raffle Tags
« Reply #183 on: January 05, 2013, 10:59:27 AM »
Thanks great read. It should be stoped and money should be used wisely. Put more officers in field if anything.

Offline huntnphool

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Re: 2012 Governors and Raffle Tags
« Reply #184 on: January 06, 2013, 12:38:30 PM »
One tag per species is acceptable in my opinion but every dollar should go to the F&W.
The things that come to those who wait, may be the things left by those who got there first!

Offline Maverick

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Re: 2012 Governors and Raffle Tags
« Reply #185 on: January 06, 2013, 03:28:31 PM »
 :yeah:

Offline Rainier10

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Re: 2012 Governors and Raffle Tags
« Reply #186 on: January 07, 2013, 05:43:11 PM »
Lots of information there and definately alot to digest.  Thanks for posting that.
Pain is temporary, achieving the goal is worth it.

I didn't say it would be easy, I said it would be worth it.

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The views and opinions expressed in this post are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of HuntWa or the site owner.

Offline huntnphool

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Re: 2012 Governors and Raffle Tags
« Reply #187 on: January 07, 2013, 06:10:29 PM »
The only change I'd like to see is a limit of about 5 tickets per hunter, per species.
The things that come to those who wait, may be the things left by those who got there first!

Offline Skyvalhunter

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Re: 2012 Governors and Raffle Tags
« Reply #188 on: January 07, 2013, 06:12:16 PM »
Is that all you can afford? :chuckle:
The only man who never makes a mistake, is the man who never does anything!!
The further one goes into the wilderness, the greater the attraction of its lonely freedom.

Offline huntnphool

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Re: 2012 Governors and Raffle Tags
« Reply #189 on: January 07, 2013, 06:32:31 PM »
Is that all you can afford? :chuckle:
I'd have to look through the sofa cushions just to come up with that. :chuckle:
The things that come to those who wait, may be the things left by those who got there first!

Offline Kazekurt

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Re: 2012 Governors and Raffle Tags
« Reply #190 on: January 08, 2013, 09:30:15 AM »
Phool, if you've got $30 in your sofa that's dang near a bank account! How much do you have under your mattress?  The Interest isn't real good in the couch though, unless you have plenty of wealthy buddies sitting there from time to time:-)

Offline huntnphool

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Re: 2012 Governors and Raffle Tags
« Reply #191 on: January 08, 2013, 09:55:39 AM »
I believe there are a lot of people that don't apply because there are guys out there dropping 2500-3000 tickets worth of coin at a time. I think WDFW would find that they would generate the same, maybe more revenue if they limited the quantity of tickets per person, rather than allowing the likely odds of one or two being the winners and deterring others from joining in. I think more people would be likely to max out their chances rather than just buy one or forget about it all together, thinking they don't have a chance against the guy with 3000 tickets.

 Of course the person that has been buying 5 tickets all along won't see his odds change if the same number of tickets are drawn, there is a perceived increase, and knowing that it's not just going to go to the same couple guys every year will help too. :twocents:
The things that come to those who wait, may be the things left by those who got there first!

Offline ellensburgpo

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Re: 2012 Governors and Raffle Tags
« Reply #192 on: January 08, 2013, 10:08:44 AM »
I don't buy any because I figure I can't compete with the guys spending thousands. If they limited the number people could buy I probably would pick some up.
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 The world breaks everyone and afterward many are strong in the broken places. But those that will not break it kills. It kills the very good and the very gentle and the very brave impartially. If you are none of these you can be sure it will kill you too but there will be no special hurry.
Ernest Hemingway, A Farewell to Arms, 1929

Offline boneaddict

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Re: 2012 Governors and Raffle Tags
« Reply #193 on: January 08, 2013, 10:15:59 AM »
I'd probably have better luck become a card carrying member of the Yakima tribe than drawing a raffle ticket.   Then I could hunt the Entiat all winter long, when they finished dropping, move over to the CLock for big bulls.   :)

Offline Kazekurt

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Re: 2012 Governors and Raffle Tags
« Reply #194 on: January 08, 2013, 10:41:49 AM »
I like the 5 ticket limit idea!  I'd definitely up my tickets from a couple to five.  I'd would also be exciting to see some different people holding the tag.  Maybe they could make it a you can only be successful once every 10 year tag, though I doubt anyone would be lucky enough to draw twice in 10 years if tickets were capped at five.  I too wonder if it would raise more money.  Is there an example of this in another state?  If so, and its working, someone should point it out to wdfw.  I figure if the raffle sold 10000 tickets at $6 that would be 60000, which is more money than most of the auction tags sell for and it would only take 2000 hunters to buy 5 tickets to get there.

 


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