Do you think the WDFW is doing a good job?

[Curly]

Bob, from the link I posted above for you (which you must not have looked at) the RMEF has listed the population of elk in WA for 1975, 1980, 1985, 1990, 1995, and 2000 at the following numbers for each of those years:

Rocky Mountain - 23,000     24,000   24,000    24,900     30,700      23,000
Roosevelt   -       35,000     31,000   31,000    30,000     31,500      35,000

[boneaddict]

Thanks Curly....That link was blocked for me.  I am playing while at work. Imagine that.

[bobcat]

Thanks. So it's the estimate for the year 2000.  OK. What confused me was the "1975-2000."

HuntinCrazy, have you read the elk herd management plans? If not, you might find them interesting. Here's the Yakima plan for starters:

http://wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/game/elk/yakima.htm

[WDFW-SUX]

Can someone explain to me the science behind killing yearling bulls I still haven't heard the reasoning for it?  If we let the spikes grow up wouldn't there be 5x the mature bulls in 5 years???  I think the way that eastern WA is managed for elk is crap.  
I have had too many personal experiences ALL negative with the WDFW to say that they are doing a good job.  On top of that I would bet that we could replace all of the bios in the state with from people off this board and things would improve.  I talk to a bio every year near my family's farm and he asks us how many elk are in the area and leaves.............he never counts on his own....ever.  Tell me how taking someones word for it is a good idea?  We could tell him there were 3x the number there really are and he would nod and smile and leave

[bobcat]

Not sure if this will answer your question, but this is from the Yakima Elk Herd Management Plan:

In 1994, the harvest strategy was changed to spike-only bull hunting during the general season, with branched antlered bull hunting by permit only. The objective was to increase post-season bull:cow ratios and increase the numbers of older adult bulls in the herd. The theory was that an increase in the numbers of older bulls would equate to earlier, more effective breeding, shorter rutting seasons, and better herd health (Noyes et al.1996). Reproductive tracts collected from Yakima elk 1987-89 indicated that 82 percent (including yearlings) were pregnant and recruitment was high despite the low post-season bull:cow ratios. Zahn (1993) concluded that low post-season bull:cow ratios were not affecting recruitment in the Yakima Elk Herd. Reproductive tract data showed slightly higher pregnancy rates and earlier conception dates in high bull:cow ratio areas. In the high bull:cow ratio areas, more cows became pregnant in the first half of September, but thereafter, dates were similar to low bull:cow ratio areas. Calf recruitment has not improved since implementing spike-only management (Table 2). The increase in adult bulls has probably boosted hunter satisfaction and created a boom in nonconsumptive use of elk, particularly shed-antler hunting.

Harvest
Elk harvest 1991-00 for the Yakima herd averaged 2,183 animals (range 1,489-3,454),
(Appendix A). The number of bull elk harvested has historically and largely reflected the previous year’s recruitment. Harvest report cards indicated that prior to implementation of spike-only management, yearling bulls accounted for 70-79 percent of the harvest. For the 3 years following implementation of spike-only management, yearling bulls accounted for 80-90 percent of harvest. In 1998, after 5 years of spike-only general seasons, yearling bulls accounted for 66 percent of bull harvest, indicating that the number of branched bull permits may now have a large effect on total harvest. In recent decades, permit numbers have determined antlerless harvest. In 1999, the recorded bull and antlerless mortality from hunting was estimated at 50 percent and 8 percent of the fall population. Post-season calf to spike mortality is estimated to be
60-70 percent.

[boneaddict]

My shorttake on the elk hunting eastern washington only.....

They need to manage between oppurtunity and trophy.
When it was anybull, you would be hard pressed to ever see a branch antlered animal.  The feeding stations would be full of cows and ONLY the occasional spike and one year had one 6 point in the upper oak creek (indians later harvested him out of the station) and one in the lower, on the hi-way, and none at the headquarters.   Most of the spikes were harvested just as they are now.  JUST as many were killed, with t he same escapement.  By the age of three, a large percentage were killed.  Too many folks were in the woods with little escapement.  There was the rare large bull that managed to hide through the whole season.   This is where westside hunting varies from eastside.  You guys have more cover thus more escapement. 
NOW The animals that are making it through the youth stage, have several years to mature without the hordes shooting them.  They actually have a chance to make it to the ripe maturity of 4 or 5 or so before most of the tag holders go after them.  If you want proof in pictures, I can post pictures of the feeding stations before spike only, and then again after. 

[boneaddict]

I can also offer proff in my shed pile.   Once a bull is mature, he is a ton harder to kill or to hunt.  Much more fun.

[WDFW-SUX]

Why not have a 4pt min on all of the special permits and eliminate the spkie killing with the hopes that over time there would be more mature bulls?

[Curly]

WDFW-sux - There are lots of mature bulls now, so the spike only is working.  I don't see a need to change it.  Although I could see making all of eastern Wa permit only and increasing the permits.  (Of course there would be more mature bulls and more special permits available if the "Native Americans" weren't out there slaughtering the big bulls ).

[boneaddict]

We could also divide the state in half and make all Western Washington folks apply as a non-resident for any eastern Washington elk.    That would sure to increase the herd.

[jackelope]

HEY now....watch it there.
don't go getting any bright ideas.

[boneaddict]

Just harassing Curly and WDFW. 

[WDFW-SUX]

I am actually for eastern WA being its own state.  Id like to see east king county become Ceder county too.  I feel real bad for the people on the east-side that get Seattle's agenda rammed down there throat.  Must suck.

[boneaddict]

It does to some extent. 

[Curly]

 

Hey Bone, if eastern and western WA were split I'd just move east sooner than I plan to now.

Actually, I'm tired of chasing spikes around.  I'm switching to Muzzleloader and hunting Western Washigton for elk now.  (Although, I did go and draw a cow tag this year so I guess I won't be chasing the big boys around this year either.................well except for out of state (Oregon).)