Aren't we already registering our weapons each time we buy a new firearm?

[longstevo]

This was brought up in a gun discussion the other day.  It went something like this:

Him:  I support gun control and expanded background checks.

Me:  Expanded background checks just lead to universal gun registration, ect

Him:  Seriously?  Don't you think that every time you buy a gun from Walmart and fill out the background check forms that information is forwarded to the feds and already registered?

Me:  Uh.....

Is that true?  When we step up to Walmart to purchase a firearm and fill out that information packet, who keeps that information from getting into the ATF's hands?  Aren't we already registering our newly purchased firearms each and every time we buy one?

 

[netcoyote]

Technically, it's my understanding that the information provided for a NICS check is only to be used to identify a person's eligibility for that particular purchase at that time. The information is not supposed to be saved as a form of registration. I'm going to do some more research on this but that is my understanding.
Now that is what is supposed to happen. I would be skeptical if somehow, some government entity doesn't find a way to hang onto the information as a de facto registration.

[netcoyote]

Here's more information:
From the FBI website: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics
From a website (no garantee of accuracy)
http://www.ms-sportsman.com/printer_friendly.php?id=312
"

The National Instant Criminal Background Check System (“NICS”) is a background check that must be performed by any Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL) when he sells a gun to an individual.

When a person goes to a store to buy a gun, he (or she) must fill out a standard federal firearms purchase Form 4473, which asks some cursory background questions. The dealer then calls the NICS number and reads the individual information to an FBI computer geek.

A quick background check of the individual purchaser is run to determine if he/she has outstanding warrants or has been convicted of a felony or other criminal activity.

Normally this action takes only a few seconds, and the NICS checker gives the retailer the go-ahead to proceed with the sale.

If the information on the individual is not instantly available, or if there is a computer problem, the retailer is instructed to hold the sale. The customer will then be told to return in three days. If the NICS system has not contacted the retailer in that time, the retailer may at his discretion sell the gun to the individual.

Here’s the beautiful part. Once the NICS system has given the go-ahead to allow the sale to proceed, all pertinent information on the purchaser must be eradicated from the system within 24 hours. The FBI has been mandated by Congress and federal law not to use this information to build a firearms owner data base.

The Form 4473 that is filled out by the purchaser stays in the possession of the gun dealer. It is not transmitted to the federal government in any way, although Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (BATFE) compliance agents make periodic checks of gun retailers to ensure they are keeping proper records.

But because of these forms, and the checking through NICS, many people assume some form of gun registration is in place. That they are not offended by this presumption absolutely frightens me.

Another important thing to remember is there is no need to register a gun or conduct an NICS check on sales or transfers of guns between individuals."

[Wazukie]

So....When a gun is stolen, how do they know who the "registered" owner is so they can return it?  By "registered" I mean the "original purchaser"  Sounds like an ownership database to me 

[ICEMAN]

So....When a gun is stolen, how do they know who the "registered" owner is so they can return it?  By "registered" I mean the "original purchaser"  Sounds like an ownership database to me 

They can't. Unless you report a gun stolen, law enforcement have "basically" no way to know who to return a gun to. FFLs maintain a record of sales, but they are not reporting these to the feds. In some instances FFLs will release the name of someone who purchased, think DC sniper Lee/Malvo etc...

Dept of Licensing offers a form which you can register a private sale of a handgun. Voluntary.

When LE take a stolen gun report, they enter the data into a national database/stolen property file. This is what they can later run a located weapon serial number against....

[SniperDanWA]

So....When a gun is stolen, how do they know who the "registered" owner is so they can return it?  By "registered" I mean the "original purchaser"  Sounds like an ownership database to me 

That's what I alluded to in an earlier post, but many on here think the forms are destroyed.  I guess I don't agree.  Someone, somewhere keeps some info on it, as the LEO seem to go to the person the gun was registered to first.

[CAM38]

I was told by a sherrif that a firearm must be reported as stolen to their department along with the serial number and a police report filed with them, that serial number with your name attatched then guess into the stolen gun database.  If it's recovered, then they know who owns it.  If it never gets reported and they get their hands on it, goes into their pile.  Dunno how true this is, never looked any further into it.

[Wazukie]

So....When a gun is stolen, how do they know who the "registered" owner is so they can return it?  By "registered" I mean the "original purchaser"  Sounds like an ownership database to me 

They can't. Unless you report a gun stolen, law enforcement have "basically" no way to know who to return a gun to. FFLs maintain a record of sales, but they are not reporting these to the feds. In some instances FFLs will release the name of someone who purchased, think DC sniper Lee/Malvo etc...

Dept of Licensing offers a form which you can register a private sale of a handgun. Voluntary.

When LE take a stolen gun report, they enter the data into a national database/stolen property file. This is what they can later run a located weapon serial number against....

My father had a 22 pistol stolen.  He did not know it was stolen.  It was then found and he was contacted by police.  They asked if he owned such and such pistol.  He confirmed that he did.  When asked how they knew it was his, they said they ran the serial #.  Now this was a pistol that he had bought back in the 1950's.  To this day, I can not figure out how they traced to him, if they did not have the serial number in some kind of database.   

[ICEMAN]

A understand that many will think that the paperwork you fill out at Wallmart is forwarded to the feds, but I am saying that they are not.

The NCIC is a huge database, but it does not contain gun sale records.

http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/doj/fbi/is/ncic.htm

Wazukie, I cannot explain how they knew to contact your father. Is it possible that the theif admitted to LE where he stole if from? Or possible it was stolen with other things that may have had your fathers name on it?

[boneaddict]

Well if you watch CSI.......

[Wazukie]

I know that the NCIC paperwork goes no where, that it stays with the FFL that does the sell.  The gentleman who stole my father's firearm was never found in possession of said firearm.  I do believe though, I could be wrong, that does happen now and again, that when a sell is done, the info on the form is verbally transmitted to the person on the other end of the phone line.  That includes firearm information.  I also know that the fed's say that that information is purged.  Well they also say we were never in Cambodia either. 

[lee]

So, .... when an FFL'er calls for a NIC check on someone..... exactly what information is given? Just personal info or is also information on the firearm you are purchasing given?

Lee

[magnanimous_j]

So, .... when an FFL'er calls for a NIC check on someone..... exactly what information is given? Just personal info or is also information on the firearm you are purchasing given?

Lee

That's the million dollar question. When I worked at Sports Authority behind the gun counter, part of my job was to maintain the records. They were complete records of gun purchases. Names, addresses, Social Security, serial numbers, all of it.

We would fax a copy to corporate and every once in a while a courier would come around for the original copy of this or that.

I promise that Sports Authority would not waste 1/10th of a second surrendering that info to the government if they asked for it. So it may not have been a Firearms Database, but it functioned like one.

[Lincoln4]

Record your serial numbers guys.  Amazes me how many firearms are stolen with the owners having no clue as to the serial number.  Without that, you'll never see it again.  Not to mention giving the rats a "clean" weapon.

[longstevo]

So, .... when an FFL'er calls for a NIC check on someone..... exactly what information is given? Just personal info or is also information on the firearm you are purchasing given?

Lee

That's the million dollar question. When I worked at Sports Authority behind the gun counter, part of my job was to maintain the records. They were complete records of gun purchases. Names, addresses, Social Security, serial numbers, all of it.

We would fax a copy to corporate and every once in a while a courier would come around for the original copy of this or that.

I promise that Sports Authority would not waste 1/10th of a second surrendering that info to the government if they asked for it. So it may not have been a Firearms Database, but it functioned like one.

So you guys would have stacks of records with complete personal information on it, and every now and then a 'courier' would show up and take them away?