St. Helens Area Quality Elk Hunts

[skywalker253]

Anyone ever drawn any of the rare St. Helens area quality elk permits (White River, Mudflow, etc?
What was your experience like?
Can you access the area long prior to the hunt to scout?
How many points did you draw with?
What are the positives and negatives to expect?

I hunt modern firearm and have 17 points.

[Whitpirate]

With 17 points I'd head for the Blues

[kentrek]

your looking at 250-280 inch bulls and your going to have to hunt hard...the bigger mudflow bulls are in the ugliest country st helens has to offer..i wouldnt waste 17 points on a hunt that is going to be that hard,you could go shoot a smaller 5 or 6 that would be pretty easy but the real big ones are in some pretty nasty country

id go to the east side or up north with 17 points..

[blacktail luv]

Do not waste 17 points. 

[sirmissalot]

I wouldn't call white river part of the St. Helens herd, but there are some truly giant bulls in that unit.

As far as St. Helens elk I agree with everyone else.

[scottfrick]

I drew the toutle muzzy bull in 2011. Saw one rag horn 4 point bull that was way to far to shoot. Ended up shooting a spike bull at 194 yards. Thank god for lots of practice. In the regs the toutle was under quality bull portion. IMO it's not that quality of a hunt. There were people every where (cow hunters/deer hunters). Was it a fun hunt? Yes. Would I apply again? I doubt it.

[Quarteredaway]

With 17 points I'd head for the Blues

[jackelope]

Great permit to draw if you want to waste 17 points on a raghorn. Apply for the public land units in the Blues or the Colockum. There's a couple elk in each if those areas contrary to popular opinion on here. Just be prepared to walk in the steep country and be in the best shape of your life if you draw. 

[Alan K]

Well, assuming you'd like the September rifle hunt in the Toutle, according to my calculations you're odds were less than 2% in 2012 with 17 points.

For the November Mudflow hunt, you're odds were less than 6%. 


The sad reality is that the odds of drawing a premium rifle tag with ideal dates or exclusive hunting areas are slim even with your amount of points.  Your odds of drawing a tag in the Blues is actually better albeit still low, and for better quality bulls.  Only thing about those hunts is the majority of them are dates outside the rut. 

[jbeaumont21]

tag

[RB]

I guess it depends on what you are looking for. If it is a giant rack east side hunting is where you should look. A nice bull can be had on the west side, but the east seems to produce bigger racks (Rocky Mountain Elk). I have hunted the White River and it is no where near Mount St Helens and have seen a couple nice bulls back when it was spike only. Looking at the pictures of Elk taken around St Helens they are nice Elk, but looking at the pictures of Elk on the east seem bigger just my 

[huntnphool]

Great permit to draw if you want to waste 17 points on a raghorn. Apply for the public land units in the Blues or the Colockum. There's a couple elk in each if those areas contrary to popular opinion on here. Just be prepared to walk in the steep country and be in the best shape of your life if you draw.

Just keep in mind that if you don't draw you are stuck only hunting the east side for spikes, might be a concern if you only hunt the west.

[Fullabull]

Avoid the dark side with 17 points!!!! Just look at other posts on here to see where the big bulls are taken

[bobcat]

I don't think it would necessarily be a waste of points. Maybe if your only reason for hunting is to kill high scoring animals. But to me if you can get drawn for a good area that has a lot of elk and relatively few hunters, that IS a quality hunt. So what if you had 17 points. The points are useless to you when you're dead. So use them! And to do that, you need to apply for hunts that have reasonable odds of drawing.

[BENCHLEG]

here is one thing to think about, if you decide to go east be in shape not many roads to road hunt on..

[jackelope]

I don't think it would necessarily be a waste of points. Maybe if your only reason for hunting is to kill high scoring animals. But to me if you can get drawn for a good area that has a lot of elk and relatively few hunters, that IS a quality hunt. So what if you had 17 points. The points are useless to you when you're dead. So use them! And to do that, you need to apply for hunts that have reasonable odds of drawing.

It's hard for me to use that reasoning because we elk hunt down there every year with archery gearband see elk all the time and one of us has opportunity at bulls every year. I can understand with the rifle I guess.

[jackelope]

Great permit to draw if you want to waste 17 points on a raghorn. Apply for the public land units in the Blues or the Colockum. There's a couple elk in each if those areas contrary to popular opinion on here. Just be prepared to walk in the steep country and be in the best shape of your life if you draw.

Just keep in mind that if you don't draw you are stuck only hunting the east side for spikes, might be a concern if you only hunt the west.

Good point. If I don't draw eastside elk this year I'll find something else to do.

[huntnphool]

I drew Toutle several years ago when there were still some decent bulls in there, amazing what has happened to it.

[bigelk1030]

I drew Toutle several years ago when there were still some decent bulls in there, amazing what has happened to it.

Has the Margaret unit gone down in quantity and or quality in the last few years also? 

[kentrek]

I drew Toutle several years ago when there were still some decent bulls in there, amazing what has happened to it.

how many years ago ?

[huntnphool]

I drew Toutle several years ago when there were still some decent bulls in there, amazing what has happened to it.

Has the Margaret unit gone down in quantity and or quality in the last few years also?

I drew in 96 and 02 I think it was, chased a few 7 points around both times and ended up getting nice bulls. The numbers are good in both Margaret and Toutle from what I see every year but they really lack maturity.

[skywalker253]

I have hunted in Dayton/Marengo for 30 years (deer). I know the area better then most. I have been scouting it weekly, but it is hard to get up the roads right now (snow). I got permission from a few land owners, but I am a little frusterated with my scouting progress. I am hoping the snow will melt, so I can get deeper in. I thought I would put it out there to see if anyone has harvested anything worth 17 points. I have come to the conclusion that the westside hunts are not that great. I don't have to harvest a 350 class bull to be happy. I would be happy with any quality elk. I have never harvested a bull, so a nice 5 x 5 or bigger will suite me fine. I have harvested a few nice cows over the years.

I plan to purchase a GPS with the Hunt Wa program, so I can help figure out who the land owners are. Any model suggestions?

Are there any hard copy materials, which list the land owner names and property boudaries?

I called the game department to get some materials, and they told me they will not release anything to the public until September. That is not enough time to scout etc.

[skywalker253]

Thanks everyone for responding. I appreciate the help!

[huntnphool]

I've got pics of one of my bulls as I'm sneaking up on it, Ill see if I can find them and scan them to the computer.

[jackelope]

There is an endless supply of public land in the Blues. Why spend so
Much time worrying about private land access?? 

[Fullabull]

Skywalker, so you have seen good bulls where you hunt? Bulls you would be happy to take? If so, I would stay where you know. If not, I would got for some place else on the east side that you can scout. I think you would waste you time on the west side and just be looking for a bull to shoot instead of something of quality.

[JPhelps]

I don't know your elk hunting experience or knowledge but guessing from your 17 points you have been elk hunting for a while and are looking for your first bull.

If you plan on a DIY hunt make sure you are ready to cash in your points.  Just because there may be bigger or more elk (there may be a higher density in some of the St. Helens units  ) doesn't guarantee you success.  It may be worth figuring out those elk in the unit you want to hunt for a couple seasons before actually putting in (at least thats how much those points are worth to me).

[NWBREW]

If I had 17 points to throw at the west side I would look at the Nook. 

[MADMAX]

 

[skywalker253]

There is an endless supply of public land in the Blues. Why spend so
Much time worrying about private land access??

Because the private land areas are the areas I know best. I have permission on a few of those areas, but the elk are not consistantly on there property. They travel thru it from time to time. I got permission for one land owner, but he wants $1500 to hunt it. Can you direct me to where I can get the public land boundaries you spoke of? I realize there is the national forest, but I am looking for public land outside of it. 

[skywalker253]

Skywalker, so you have seen good bulls where you hunt? Bulls you would be happy to take? If so, I would stay where you know. If not, I would got for some place else on the east side that you can scout. I think you would waste you time on the west side and just be looking for a bull to shoot instead of something of quality.

I hunt GMU 673, but they do not offer any quality permits for that GMU.

[huntnphool]

There is an endless supply of public land in the Blues. Why spend so
Much time worrying about private land access??

Because the private land areas are the areas I know best. I have permission on a few of those areas, but the elk are not consistantly on there property. They travel thru it from time to time. I got permission for one land owner, but he wants $1500 to hunt it. Can you direct me to where I can get the public land boundaries you spoke of? I realize there is the national forest, but I am looking for public land outside of it.

contact the BLM, they have maps you can purchase

[ellensburgpo]

Mytopo has maps with gmu boundaries and they are color coded by owner.

[JLS]

There is an endless supply of public land in the Blues. Why spend so
Much time worrying about private land access??

Because the private land areas are the areas I know best. I have permission on a few of those areas, but the elk are not consistantly on there property. They travel thru it from time to time. I got permission for one land owner, but he wants $1500 to hunt it. Can you direct me to where I can get the public land boundaries you spoke of? I realize there is the national forest, but I am looking for public land outside of it.

contact the BLM, they have maps you can purchase

Also, DNR has maps for WA that show public lands.

I think you'll have a hard time finding any large pieces of public outside of the nat'l forest that will reliably hold elk.  Why not hunt within the forest? 

[skywalker253]

I don't know your elk hunting experience or knowledge but guessing from your 17 points you have been elk hunting for a while and are looking for your first bull.

If you plan on a DIY hunt make sure you are ready to cash in your points.  Just because there may be bigger or more elk (there may be a higher density in some of the St. Helens units  ) doesn't guarantee you success.  It may be worth figuring out those elk in the unit you want to hunt for a couple seasons before actually putting in (at least thats how much those points are worth to me).

I have been hunting elk for awhile, but nowhere near as hard as some of the guys on this site. I don't have anyone to hunt with. And when I do, it is with my father, who is 70 years old. He cannot get up and down hills anymore. In past years, I did not put in a ton of effort to get an elk. In the last 5 years I have really tried hard and scouted year round. My success has gone up, but I have been filling cow tags (3 in the last 5 seasons). I got 7 of my points from applying and not getting drawn. The other 10 were awarded to me by the game department for turning in 11 poachers during deer season. Appartently they thought it was ok to poach deer on my farmers land and let them lay to rott. Not to mention all the shots they took at the Pacific Corp power station buildings, which pissed off the workers, who were put in harms way. Needless to say; they won't be hunting for a very long time. So yes I have been hunting for awhile, but there is a story behind all those points.

[skywalker253]

There is an endless supply of public land in the Blues. Why spend so
Much time worrying about private land access??

Because the private land areas are the areas I know best. I have permission on a few of those areas, but the elk are not consistantly on there property. They travel thru it from time to time. I got permission for one land owner, but he wants $1500 to hunt it. Can you direct me to where I can get the public land boundaries you spoke of? I realize there is the national forest, but I am looking for public land outside of it.

contact the BLM, they have maps you can purchase

Also, DNR has maps for WA that show public lands.

I think you'll have a hard time finding any large pieces of public outside of the nat'l forest that will reliably hold elk.  Why not hunt within the forest?

I will hunt the national forest if I have to, but I want to put in for a cow tag too. Just in case I don't get drawn. Not all, but many of the cow tags do not permit hunting within the national forests of the Blues/Foothills. I drew the tag in 2010 and had a bad experience. I won't bring it back up, as I already hashed it out in another topic last month. I deleted my posts and said screw this site. But somehow I am still hanging around chatting it up with everyone.

[kentrek]

I don't know your elk hunting experience or knowledge but guessing from your 17 points you have been elk hunting for a while and are looking for your first bull.

If you plan on a DIY hunt make sure you are ready to cash in your points.  Just because there may be bigger or more elk (there may be a higher density in some of the St. Helens units  ) doesn't guarantee you success.  It may be worth figuring out those elk in the unit you want to hunt for a couple seasons before actually putting in (at least thats how much those points are worth to me).

I have been hunting elk for awhile, but nowhere near as hard as some of the guys on this site. I don't have anyone to hunt with. And when I do, it is with my father, who is 70 years old. He cannot get up and down hills anymore. In past years, I did not put in a ton of effort to get an elk. In the last 5 years I have really tried hard and scouted year round. My success has gone up, but I have been filling cow tags (3 in the last 5 seasons). I got 7 of my points from applying and not getting drawn. The other 10 were awarded to me by the game department for turning in 11 poachers during deer season. Appartently they thought it was ok to poach deer on my farmers land and let them lay to rott. Not to mention all the shots they took at the Pacific Corp power station buildings, which pissed off the workers, who were put in harms way. Needless to say; they won't be hunting for a very long time. So yes I have been hunting for awhile, but there is a story behind all those points.

well since you say that...

id go with an easy bull tag anywhere..its not like youve been waiting 17 years to get this "oil" tag so ya id just have fun with it..plus most likely youl catch more poachers in the future and wont take ya long to get another 17 points..

if ya end up going after a mudflow/margret/toutle bull let me know an id be glad to help

[skywalker253]

I don't know your elk hunting experience or knowledge but guessing from your 17 points you have been elk hunting for a while and are looking for your first bull.

If you plan on a DIY hunt make sure you are ready to cash in your points.  Just because there may be bigger or more elk (there may be a higher density in some of the St. Helens units  ) doesn't guarantee you success.  It may be worth figuring out those elk in the unit you want to hunt for a couple seasons before actually putting in (at least thats how much those points are worth to me).

I have been hunting elk for awhile, but nowhere near as hard as some of the guys on this site. I don't have anyone to hunt with. And when I do, it is with my father, who is 70 years old. He cannot get up and down hills anymore. In past years, I did not put in a ton of effort to get an elk. In the last 5 years I have really tried hard and scouted year round. My success has gone up, but I have been filling cow tags (3 in the last 5 seasons). I got 7 of my points from applying and not getting drawn. The other 10 were awarded to me by the game department for turning in 11 poachers during deer season. Appartently they thought it was ok to poach deer on my farmers land and let them lay to rott. Not to mention all the shots they took at the Pacific Corp power station buildings, which pissed off the workers, who were put in harms way. Needless to say; they won't be hunting for a very long time. So yes I have been hunting for awhile, but there is a story behind all those points.

well since you say that...

id go with an easy bull tag anywhere..its not like youve been waiting 17 years to get this "oil" tag so ya id just have fun with it..plus most likely youl catch more poachers in the future and wont take ya long to get another 17 points..

if ya end up going after a mudflow/margret/toutle bull let me know an id be glad to help

I have been thinking about going that route. I don't know Mudflow or Margret. I have spent some time hunting Coweeman, which introduced me to the Toutle. I drew a cow tag in the Toutle a few years back and ended up filling  in within the first hour on opening day. The herd saw me before I saw them. They took off straight up hill from me in the clear cut. I was down at the bottom. The lead cow stopped and turned broadside at 368 yards. I shot and she dropped. In the end I did not get much experience in the area, since my hunt ended so quickly (I was ok with that!).

I wanted to thank everyone for the help thus far.

[JLS]

There is an endless supply of public land in the Blues. Why spend so
Much time worrying about private land access??

Because the private land areas are the areas I know best. I have permission on a few of those areas, but the elk are not consistantly on there property. They travel thru it from time to time. I got permission for one land owner, but he wants $1500 to hunt it. Can you direct me to where I can get the public land boundaries you spoke of? I realize there is the national forest, but I am looking for public land outside of it.

contact the BLM, they have maps you can purchase

Also, DNR has maps for WA that show public lands.

I think you'll have a hard time finding any large pieces of public outside of the nat'l forest that will reliably hold elk.  Why not hunt within the forest?

I will hunt the national forest if I have to, but I want to put in for a cow tag too. Just in case I don't get drawn. Not all, but many of the cow tags do not permit hunting within the national forests of the Blues/Foothills. I drew the tag in 2010 and had a bad experience. I won't bring it back up, as I already hashed it out in another topic last month. I deleted my posts and said screw this site. But somehow I am still hanging around chatting it up with everyone.

Okay, I was only thinking bull tag.  I bowhunt, and stick primarily to the nat'l forest, so I am not much help outside of it.  What about 186, aren't there cow tags there?

[skywalker253]

I don't know your elk hunting experience or knowledge but guessing from your 17 points you have been elk hunting for a while and are looking for your first bull.

If you plan on a DIY hunt make sure you are ready to cash in your points.  Just because there may be bigger or more elk (there may be a higher density in some of the St. Helens units  ) doesn't guarantee you success.  It may be worth figuring out those elk in the unit you want to hunt for a couple seasons before actually putting in (at least thats how much those points are worth to me).

I have been hunting elk for awhile, but nowhere near as hard as some of the guys on this site. I don't have anyone to hunt with. And when I do, it is with my father, who is 70 years old. He cannot get up and down hills anymore. In past years, I did not put in a ton of effort to get an elk. In the last 5 years I have really tried hard and scouted year round. My success has gone up, but I have been filling cow tags (3 in the last 5 seasons). I got 7 of my points from applying and not getting drawn. The other 10 were awarded to me by the game department for turning in 11 poachers during deer season. Appartently they thought it was ok to poach deer on my farmers land and let them lay to rott. Not to mention all the shots they took at the Pacific Corp power station buildings, which pissed off the workers, who were put in harms way. Needless to say; they won't be hunting for a very long time. So yes I have been hunting for awhile, but there is a story behind all those points.

well since you say that...

id go with an easy bull tag anywhere..its not like youve been waiting 17 years to get this "oil" tag so ya id just have fun with it..plus most likely youl catch more poachers in the future and wont take ya long to get another 17 points..

if ya end up going after a mudflow/margret/toutle bull let me know an id be glad to help

And for the record; I don't make a habit out of turning people in for making stupid decisions. I have had plenty of opprotunities to award myself points. I usually just shake my head and turn the other way. This was the only time I have turned anyone in, and it was for good reason. Had I not, there were about 25 other hunters, who were going to. I might as well get the points and protect the private land my family/friends have been priviledged to be apart of the last 48 years. Honest mistakes I am ok with. Stupid people making hunters look bad and destroying my area; sorry use your head next time.

[kentrek]

I don't know your elk hunting experience or knowledge but guessing from your 17 points you have been elk hunting for a while and are looking for your first bull.

If you plan on a DIY hunt make sure you are ready to cash in your points.  Just because there may be bigger or more elk (there may be a higher density in some of the St. Helens units  ) doesn't guarantee you success.  It may be worth figuring out those elk in the unit you want to hunt for a couple seasons before actually putting in (at least thats how much those points are worth to me).

I have been hunting elk for awhile, but nowhere near as hard as some of the guys on this site. I don't have anyone to hunt with. And when I do, it is with my father, who is 70 years old. He cannot get up and down hills anymore. In past years, I did not put in a ton of effort to get an elk. In the last 5 years I have really tried hard and scouted year round. My success has gone up, but I have been filling cow tags (3 in the last 5 seasons). I got 7 of my points from applying and not getting drawn. The other 10 were awarded to me by the game department for turning in 11 poachers during deer season. Appartently they thought it was ok to poach deer on my farmers land and let them lay to rott. Not to mention all the shots they took at the Pacific Corp power station buildings, which pissed off the workers, who were put in harms way. Needless to say; they won't be hunting for a very long time. So yes I have been hunting for awhile, but there is a story behind all those points.

well since you say that...

id go with an easy bull tag anywhere..its not like youve been waiting 17 years to get this "oil" tag so ya id just have fun with it..plus most likely youl catch more poachers in the future and wont take ya long to get another 17 points..

if ya end up going after a mudflow/margret/toutle bull let me know an id be glad to help

And for the record; I don't make a habit out of turning people in for making stupid decisions. I have had plenty of opprotunities to award myself points. I usually just shake my head and turn the other way. This was the only time I have turned anyone in, and it was for good reason. Had I not, there were about 25 other hunters, who were going to. I might as well get the points and protect the private land my family/friends have been priviledged to be apart of the last 48 years. Honest mistakes I am ok with. Stupid people making hunters look bad and destroying my area; sorry use your head next time.

no worries 

[skywalker253]

Okay, I was only thinking bull tag.  I bowhunt, and stick primarily to the nat'l forest, so I am not much help outside of it.  What about 186, aren't there cow tags there?
[/quote]

I just checked. I did not see any. I checked the elk area tags as well. 186 is not apart of it. Unless I missed something.

[trophyhunt]

My 2cents, your looking for a bull hunt. If I were you I would put in for a bull permit and save the quality tag for a later time. You haven't killed a bull yet, and a bull tag should give you that chance, with a chance at a very good bull. If you shoot a 250 bull with quality points and your happy, that's fine but your quality points should be put to a more rewarding hunt. But that is just my 2cents, I also have 17 points and I have killed many bulls but I feel those quality points wouldn't be justified by killing just any bull. Get your bull permit figured out and with luck draw that tag and go kill your first bull. Either way, good luck in the draw and don't count on drawing just because you have 17, look on the wdfw web site and see how many guys with 17 don't draw- hell a guy with over 30 didn't draw 2 years ago and he put in. I'd put in for the white river waaaaayyyy before I would put in for the Margaret.

[skywalker253]

My 2cents, your looking for a bull hunt. If I were you I would put in for a bull permit and save the quality tag for a later time. You haven't killed a bull yet, and a bull tag should give you that chance, with a chance at a very good bull. If you shoot a 250 bull with quality points and your happy, that's fine but your quality points should be put to a more rewarding hunt. But that is just my 2cents, I also have 17 points and I have killed many bulls but I feel those quality points wouldn't be justified by killing just any bull. Get your bull permit figured out and with luck draw that tag and go kill your first bull. Either way, good luck in the draw and don't count on drawing just because you have 17, look on the wdfw web site and see how many guys with 17 don't draw- hell a guy with over 30 didn't draw 2 years ago and he put in. I'd put in for the white river waaaaayyyy before I would put in for the Margaret.

I took a look at the draw statistics last month. How do you build 34 points when the point system has not been going that long? I heard he got drawn this year and got a nice bull. I figure I will start planning now and feel lucky if I am fortunate to get drawn. I don't expect to get drawn for a few more years, but maybe my luck will change. I will take another cow tag or my first bull permit and be happy with that. I don't have near the points in those categories, but I will be happy with whatever; if anything. I wouldn't waste 17 points on a Margret tag either. I'd probably end up with a rag horn 4 x 4 with hoof rott. I guess I will head east.

[soccerguy]

In 2011 I drew a tag in the Blues with my 17 points, I ended up hunting on private land (for free) and taking a beautiful 6X6 350 bull the first day of the hunt.  The access and the result was due to a lot of research and a few trips in advance of the season, which any of you could have done. No way would I burn 17 points on the westside!

[Alan K]

I took a look at the draw statistics last month. How do you build 34 points when the point system has not been going that long? I heard he got drawn this year and got a nice bull. I figure I will start planning now and feel lucky if I am fortunate to get drawn. I don't expect to get drawn for a few more years, but maybe my luck will change. I will take another cow tag or my first bull permit and be happy with that. I don't have near the points in those categories, but I will be happy with whatever; if anything. I wouldn't waste 17 points on a Margret tag either. I'd probably end up with a rag horn 4 x 4 with hoof rott. I guess I will head east.

Turning in poachers just like you did when you got your 10 points.  In the past you were able to spread them around different categories and stuff too.  Not sure if they changed it or not, but you were in the past able to exceed the maximum points that you could have acquired via not drawing tags. A guy I work with did the same and put them in Elk (before they gave your points to every category for the species! Lucky guy!), I think he has somewhere in the neighborhood of 24 points.

[Skyvalhunter]

And still hasn't drawn or is waiting for the elk to bounce back in Wa.