Surplus Ammo & Arms

[chrisb]

So the ones that say supply and demand good luck with your business plan because the money you make now you'll have to live on it for awhile.

That's a great point... think of how these businesses are supposed to survive if any type of ban is put in place. What about when the supply chain truly is dried up? they need to make money now to live on for a potentially very long time.

[KelseyH]

ChrisB-

You're very close on that statement.  It answer a previous question, yes, our margins have gone up.  This is a necessity not to gouge but for the survival of the business.  Small business lives off of cash flow and everyday we have a certain amount of overhead we have to meet in profit just to pay the expenses of the day.  When supply is plentiful and we can keep product on the shelves, it is easy to run at lower margins and sell higher volumes to make up the daily minimum.  In this current situation though, we cannot sell in volume simply because of the restrictions of supply so we are forced to make up that amount of finance by increase margin on the products that we do have available.     

I hope that is beneficial explanation of the way a store works with its financial obligations on a daily basis.   You can run a high volume at a low margin, or you can run a Higher Margin at a lower volume but in the end, you must make the minimum to survive. The limits on volume are forcing everyone to higher margins.  There are also extremes to it.  You can run super high volumes at no margin or you can run super high margins at no volume, both result in failure.    It is a constant balancing act.

Kelsey
High Mountain Hunting Supply, LLC

[h20hunter]

Your statment regarding the difference between gouging and having on hand inventory to meet demand was nicely put.

[Spuddieselwwu]

Hate to play devils advocate...but this is simple supply and demand economics...if you aren't due supply as a store for months, you are losing out on potential revenue to keep yourself afloat, therefore you have to increase prices to account for the supply and demand, otherwise you as a store might not make it.

I'm not a store owner just FYI.

There is a difference between supply and demand, and price gauging...  Since you were an english major and not a business major, you wouldn't know that.

Example: West Coast Armory has been selling AR's (when they get them in) for 799, that same AR was 749 pre December.   The extra $50 accounts for their margin shrinking/demand rising.

[chrisb]

Hate to play devils advocate...but this is simple supply and demand economics...if you aren't due supply as a store for months, you are losing out on potential revenue to keep yourself afloat, therefore you have to increase prices to account for the supply and demand, otherwise you as a store might not make it.

I'm not a store owner just FYI.

There is a difference between supply and demand, and price gauging...  Since you were an english major and not a business major, you wouldn't know that.

Example: West Coast Armory has been selling AR's (when they get them in) for 799, that same AR was 749 pre December.   The extra $50 accounts for their margin shrinking/demand rising.

In today's marketplace a $799 AR is a steal even if it's $50 more than previously priced.

[Spuddieselwwu]

Hate to play devils advocate...but this is simple supply and demand economics...if you aren't due supply as a store for months, you are losing out on potential revenue to keep yourself afloat, therefore you have to increase prices to account for the supply and demand, otherwise you as a store might not make it.

I'm not a store owner just FYI.

There is a difference between supply and demand, and price gauging...  Since you were an english major and not a business major, you wouldn't know that.

Example: West Coast Armory has been selling AR's (when they get them in) for 799, that same AR was 749 pre December.   The extra $50 accounts for their margin shrinking/demand rising.

In today's marketplace a $799 AR is a steal even if it's $50 more than previously priced.

 

[gasman]

it seems to me that the small business owner and every day Joe blow are the ones raising the prices 

The big retailers have kept the prices in check for the most part. Example, Cabelas had AR's last week and sold them foe $799. Whole sale sports and Sportsmens wharehouse get them in and sell them for $799 also. there mags are in the $20 range, just a little higher then pre Dec.

Now the small business man Joe Blow see the shortage and demand for the item and double the price to sell for a profit. SAA selling pmags for $50. 2 ammo for $55 a box. complete uppers for $999.
J&S has done the same. $60 pmags, $2500 that are normally $800, BCG for $400 when two months ago they sold for $175.

And oh yeah, they still have them all in stock 

I dont see many people buys that out rages price much any more. Weeks ago the shelf's were empty, now they are restocked with item selling for double and people are not buying 

You even got Joe Blow on here and gun broker selling for the inflated prices and there still trying to sell them 


Things will die down along with prices. If items are not sold and sit on the shelf, they dont make money. The longer they keep the prices up and dont sell, the more people will remember the over inflation of prices and spend there money in stores that did not over inflate there prices, like me.

 

[xd2005]

it seems to me that the small business owner and every day Joe blow are the ones raising the prices 

The big retailers have kept the prices in check for the most part. Example, Cabelas had AR's last week and sold them foe $799. Whole sale sports and Sportsmens wharehouse get them in and sell them for $799 also. there mags are in the $20 range, just a little higher then pre Dec.

Now the small business man Joe Blow see the shortage and demand for the item and double the price to sell for a profit. SAA selling pmags for $50. 2 ammo for $55 a box. complete uppers for $999.
J&S has done the same. $60 pmags, $2500 that are normally $800, BCG for $400 when two months ago they sold for $175.

And oh yeah, they still have them all in stock 

I dont see many people buys that out rages price much any more. Weeks ago the shelf's were empty, now they are restocked with item selling for double and people are not buying 

You even got Joe Blow on here and gun broker selling for the inflated prices and there still trying to sell them 


Things will die down along with prices. If items are not sold and sit on the shelf, they dont make money. The longer they keep the prices up and dont sell, the more people will remember the over inflation of prices and spend there money in stores that did not over inflate there prices, like me.

 

The big box stores are able to rely on more than just gun related sales. If SAA lowered their prices to old ones, they would sell out in a day...then what? Wait for the next shipment to come in, work one day and close again to wait for the next? It's really a simple concept, if people don't like the prices, don't buy. If they don't sell enough, they will lower prices to move inventory.

[Skillet]

This is a question for KelseyH-

Is the supply of these items we're discussing actually limited at this point, or is it just limited relative to the spike in demand?  I ask because it would appear that every manufacturer of these items is running at a "higher-than-before-the-demand-spike" capacity and the product has to be going somewhere.  Are your allocations from manufacturers truly limited to less than what you were able to order before, or are you simply not able to order proportionately more product to meet the much higher demand, making it feel as if there is a shortage of supply when you're filling out your PO's?   

Thanks-

[Cap.Silver]

I wentured into Cabelas yesterday and let me tell you ................. there is not much of gun powder, some popular reloading size dies are gone,primers -don't even ask =they have no idea when they will be ever again available  ,few cases here and there ,some bullets that nobody shoots  . Manu ammo was OK except little low stocks and 10 box limits -and no 223/5.56 rounds . I thnk the situation is getting little better with handguns .

[Special T]

I've seen thes kinds of shortages in my industry... If a store normally sells 100 units a month and there is a huge spike in demand you might think you need 500 usints a month, but really you only need like 2-300  its just that everyone is scambling so it screws it all up

[gasman]

it seems to me that the small business owner and every day Joe blow are the ones raising the prices 

The big retailers have kept the prices in check for the most part. Example, Cabelas had AR's last week and sold them foe $799. Whole sale sports and Sportsmens wharehouse get them in and sell them for $799 also. there mags are in the $20 range, just a little higher then pre Dec.

Now the small business man Joe Blow see the shortage and demand for the item and double the price to sell for a profit. SAA selling pmags for $50. 2 ammo for $55 a box. complete uppers for $999.
J&S has done the same. $60 pmags, $2500 that are normally $800, BCG for $400 when two months ago they sold for $175.

And oh yeah, they still have them all in stock 

I dont see many people buys that out rages price much any more. Weeks ago the shelf's were empty, now they are restocked with item selling for double and people are not buying 

You even got Joe Blow on here and gun broker selling for the inflated prices and there still trying to sell them 


Things will die down along with prices. If items are not sold and sit on the shelf, they dont make money. The longer they keep the prices up and dont sell, the more people will remember the over inflation of prices and spend there money in stores that did not over inflate there prices, like me.

 

The big box stores are able to rely on more than just gun related sales. If SAA lowered their prices to old ones, they would sell out in a day...then what? Wait for the next shipment to come in, work one day and close again to wait for the next? It's really a simple concept, if people don't like the prices, don't buy. If they don't sell enough, they will lower prices to move inventory.

you are correct, and that is why they have a stock of ammo and Pmags on the shelf that are not selling, also not having there FFL and not being able to sell guns is hurting them too.

All the people we seen in there were like us. Seen the prices were way out there and walked out with out spending a $$.

Keep prices more reasonable, move inventory, make money  unless they are relying on the higher prices to keep business a-float while they deal with there FFL issue   

[KelseyH]

To Skillet  -  The answer to both questions is yes.  Regardless of spike or demand, there are severe shortages on allocations, supplies, and availability of product.  A spike in demand creates all kinds of complications all the way down the supply line.  Right now, many lines are running at only 50-60% of capacity simply due to shortages in raw products or shortages in components.  I received an industry report last week.  The only company that has been able to keep up with the demands is springfield and they have expected delivery dates of around 90 days from time of order.  They have also completely discontinued production of their 1911 series to focus everything on producing the XD/XDM series.    Ammo is another problem area.  Nothing is available.  By the end of the first week of January 2013, most ammo manufacturers had enough orders to cover their entire production through 2014.  The result of that is while they are ramping up production of ammo to cover that demand, they are then creating a shortage of reloading supplies, thus primers, powder, projectiles, and brass have dried up.  Don't expect to see those come back for another 9-12 months. 

The reality is, this is a very real shortage.  It is a shortage that may actually put smaller shops out of business simply because they do not have items to sell. 

[Cap.Silver]

Found some lower part kits at Natchez for those interested -they appear to be in stock .  http://www.natchezss.com/Category.cfm?contentID=productDetail&brand=CA&prodID=CA55CA6C5&prodTitle=Lower Parts Kits AR-15 LPK

[Wenatcheejay]

Why is nobody listening to Old Joe and buying double barrel shotguns and a pocket full of shells?

All the democrats on the board are not being very supportive of Obama. Come on you guys, buy one for Joe. Make him feel relevant.