Jealous Hunters piss me off!!!!!!

[RightPlace-RightTime]

yes,  All it takes is a phone call if you arent sure.   and whats with all the attitude on here, ive been seeing alot of it. this is suppose to be a fun site. 

[SHANE(WA)]

  That sucks Brian, Pam was in whiteatail plus a couple days ago when I was there asking about broadheads if they could have lead or fragment, she was referring to a case that someone shot a elk with a rifle and ran a arrow thru it. This states game wardens suck, I dont talk to them they get yes or no anwsers, pricks all of them. your guilty till proven innocent around here

[WonkyWapiti]

Doublelung is right, once tagged the animal is yours, prior to the tag going on it still belongs to the state.  Has your buddy even called the taxidermist and the butcher to see if the animal and antlers were actually taken?  The whole conversation could have been a bluff by the game officer which is perfectly legal and an often used police technique.  People lie to the game officers all the time.  The game officer is still going to need evidence of a crime to justify taking someone's property.  If someone is claiming to be a witness, then a statement more than likely should have been taken by the game officer.  Just like in any occupation you are going to have outstanding professionals and some knuckleheads.  I know some really squared away game officers and I know some knuckleheads.  I don't buy the pupil argument, how many instances is an animal shot in the afternoon/evening and finally dies after dark?  I agree with the others that there is more to this story, either from your friends side or what was told to the game officer.   I would have your friend first verify that the items were infact confiscated and then ask to speak to the game officers Captain to see what the details surrounding the accusation are.

[pendoreilleadventures]

pam and our new officer are the ones on the investigation. i will call my buddy in the morning and ask him if he has talked to anyone about it.

[PA BEN]

When taking meat in, cut it up yourself and bring only meat in and tags are not required.  My neighbor is a butcher.

You better read the regs!!!!
2. Transporting wildlife
You must transport any big game
animal with the proper tag attached.
The properly validated tag must
remain with the meat until it is eaten
(including cold storage). If quartered,
the tag should remain with the carcass
or largest portion of the carcass. If you
need to take the head to a taxidermist
and the meat to be processed, you
can complete a taxidermy ledger or
invoice, providing information outlined
under "Possession and Use of
Wildlife" for the taxidermist, and keep
the tag with the meat at the processor.
The tag should remain attached to
the hide of a bear or cougar until it is
tanned.

[TeacherMan]

makes you want to avoid them in the woods. I was hunting with a new hunter this year and we where hiking back down to our truck after a morning of grouse hunting (no birds) and I heard a vehicle in the distance. I stopped my buddy and told him to wait. He ask why "we are in national forest" my response to his was if it is a game warden they are just going to harass you and try get something from nothing. This is sad    that we have to feel this way when we are in the woods. Who is paying for them to be there anyway? They need to remember what there job is. Bullying isn't it.

[WAcoyotehunter]

I met the new Pend Oreille County Officer and really liked him...I'm suprised he'd be acting this way? 

I'm not sure what has happened to all of you that have such distrust for game officers...I still think they're doing the best job they can with limited resources and (apparently) a public that hates them... sounds like a tough job.

[yelp]

Enforcement officers are now called enforcement police on thier badges.  Remember they deal with all kinds, meth heads, potheads, hot heads, most of them have guns.  Now with that said I know lots of courteous and kind officers that you would thank after they gave you a citation.  They are usually the older more experienced officers.  The newer officers that have been hired out of the WSP academy seem to have less experience in PR.  If I was a chief however and wanted to hire officers that were effective in the field I would hire the bulldogs that produced results.  However if they want respect in the field they should show professionalism and respect also.   

[luvtohnt]

I know all the officers I have been stopped by in Kittitas and Grant counties have been extremely pleasant. As far as the pupils go, I could see how they could tell. Spotlights are much brighter than natural light so the pupils would have been dialated much more than if shot in the dark or even during first light. I know when I worked for a butcher he would not accept game meat without a tag, and would usually call the warden after the people left.

Brandon

[nate]

Within 30 minutes after death, the pupil is fully dilated. Over the next 10 hours, the pupil slowly narrows until it's about a third of it's fully dilated size. From pupil size, they can only approximate the time of death, not if artificial light was used.

[DOUBLELUNG]

Just to clarify on the pupil thing.  The pupil doesn't freeze at time of death based on the brightness of light, though that would seem a logical explanation.  The pupil dilates fully shortly after death, then contracts predictably through the first 24-48 hours.  There are other indicators too, based on the smoothness of the eyeball surface, color of the reflected eye, clarity of the fluid in the eye, etc.  Basically, a game animal's time of death can be pretty reliably estimated to within 1 hour within the first 24-48 hours, and within minutes during the first hour.  The most frequently used technique is body temperature at specific locations in a whole, field dressed or field dressed and skinned carcass, since birds and mammals have a constant and predictable body temperature at time of death.  

Game wardens are taught to ask questions quickly and commandingly.  Basically, anyone truthful can keep up with that, someone lying will trip themselves up.  Once that starts, a good investigator can usually unravel a violator's story.  Forensic estimation of time of death requires establishing several conditions between time of death and investigation, and if the officer is suspicious that an animal was killed at an illegal time of day, they can quickly tell if they are getting the truth - or if someone is trying to figure out the motivation behind the question, and come up with the "correct" answer.  

Often, the rapid fire questions are to determine a person's truthfulness; and the actual answer to only one in every several questions is of consequence.  Having been present for hundreds of field interviews, it is pretty easy to determine 1) who broke the law and knows it, 2) who broke the law and doesn't know it, 3) who has no clue what the law is, and is paranoid they broke the law, and 4) who is legal and knows it.

I'm always amazed at how adamant so many of the same hunters are that they want poachers caught and prosecuted, yet get offended that they are questioned by game wardens trying to do that exact job, and who somehow can't detect the holier-than-thou hunter's halo.  Contrary to media and stories, poachers aren't identifiable by appearance.  That hostile-looking scruffy guy in the 1978 Jimmy, is no more likely (and no less likely) to be a poacher than the dressed-by-Cabela's guy in the $40,000 truck covered with decals.  Good officers treat them all the same - and lean on the liars the same.  

Chances are, if you've been leaned on by a game warden, it is because you've been evasive - even if you are legal.  Like yelp indicated, some of the younger ones are overzealous - but can you really fault them for wanting to be good investigators, and trying to catch bad guys??  Observed violations constitute only a small fraction of arrests and citations - investigation, including field interviews and interrogation techniques, is what catches most violators.  

[DOUBLELUNG]

Within 30 minutes after death, the pupil is fully dilated. Over the next 10 hours, the pupil slowly narrows until it's about a third of it's fully dilated size. From pupil size, they can only approximate the time of death, not if artificial light was used.

What he said - good job Nate.

[bobcat]

When taking meat in, cut it up yourself and bring only meat in and tags are not required.  My neighbor is a butcher.

You better read the regs!!!!
2. Transporting wildlife
You must transport any big game
animal with the proper tag attached.
The properly validated tag must
remain with the meat until it is eaten
(including cold storage). If quartered,
the tag should remain with the carcass
or largest portion of the carcass. If you
need to take the head to a taxidermist
and the meat to be processed, you
can complete a taxidermy ledger or
invoice, providing information outlined
under "Possession and Use of
Wildlife" for the taxidermist, and keep
the tag with the meat at the processor.
The tag should remain attached to
the hide of a bear or cougar until it is
tanned.

I've never been asked for a tag when I bring in boned out meat, and I've done it that way for several years. The butcher only needs a tag when you bring in the entire carcass. Seems odd but that's just the way it is.

[FALFire]

Remember, You have the right to remain silent, I suggest you use it, answer questions carefully if you choose to. Always be polite and professional. If you get a ticket, take it to court. You are not required to answer any questions during a TELEPHONE interview. You are not required to answer any questions anytime, remember, you have the right to remain silent. You can hang up the phone anytime during a conversation, even if the officer identifies themselves, there is no way to determine if the voice on the other end is actually a real commissioned officer.

You are required by state law to show positive Identification and proper license and tags for the game you are hunting. If you are in your vehicle you are required to show registration and insurance papers if you are stopped or contacted on a public right of way. Private land is different, so no vehicle papers are required but I would certainly suggest you have a written permission slip allowing you to hunt that land, even though they as law enforcement cannot order you to leave, unless they have a "No Trepass" letter on file at their office or a copy with them. It's still a good idea to have it if possible.

Don't offer any info....PERIOD. Don't cave to the harassment and don't ask any questions, you will not be given an answer. Most officers are fishing for any evidence so they can make the arrest, any arrest, ESPECIALLY game agents. They don't get enough good violations to support their cause and are looking to puff up their chests anytime they can to show their buddies they are doing their job.

I spent way too many years in law enforcement and I know for a fact there are lots of real good solid crimes occurring out there daily, but the Game dept. is looking to turn a minor seatbelt infraction into the largest game violation in the past 100 years.  Yes, they can stop you for not wearing a seatbelt on a county or state maintained road regardles of road surface. Game agents in Washington are State certified law enforcement officers, just as any City of Auburn or Seattle officer is commissioned.

Don't get me wrong, we need the State Game Dept. but they do sometimes over extend their duties and do nothing more then cause frustration with lots of sportsmen.

I would like to think of them as being helpful and curtious when you need them, arrest the criminal when they have evidence of a crime and support our sport but so many are just plain rude and unprofessional, mostly the young but not always the case.

NOTE:

This is not legal advice, it's purely common sense, use it if you choose.

I think there is a lot more to this story than what is being told here, it sounds as though the info is distorted in some way and has been filtered down through frustration and anger and maybe even ignorance on maybe the butcher or taxi.  

If someone believes a crime has been commited, then the Game Dept. must act. What they do during their investigation is often times misunderstood by non LEO. So I would not get to carried away with rumors and false accusations without knowing first hand the real truth.

I worked with cops that did everything in their power to develope a crime out of nothing and end up with nothing once done, so it happens. In this case it sounds as though the hunter may never see any part of his elk again and have only photos of a good hunt and a bad memory.

[Bofire]

"RCW 77.15.070 Civil Forfeiture of property used for violation of chapter.
Fish and wildlife officers and ex officio fish and wildlife officers may seize without warrant boats, airplanes, vehicles, motorized implements, conveyances, gear, appliances, or other articles thay have probable cause to beleive have been held with intent to violate or used in violation of this title or rule of the commission or director."

"The property seized is subject to forfeiture to the state under this section regardless of ownership."

"Property seized may be recovered by its owner by depositing with the department or into court a cash bond or equivelent security equal to the value of seized property but not more than one hundred thousand dollars."

This is the law folks.
Falfire is correct KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT.
Carl