The absurdity of WDFW draw system

[boneaddict]

Because once you draw, you never will again, and if your kids come in they won't draw either.   

[huntingfool7]

Bonus and preference point systems are the WORST thing that ever came to a draw system

I agree, but we're stuck with it now.

Don't have to be stuck with them.  WDFW could easily S-can the point system and go to a straight draw.

I am high on elk/OIL points, low on deer and bear points.  I think the point system is the worst thing for new hunters and should be bagged on that alone. 

Also, I would be OK with fronting $ for OIL tags.

[boneaddict]

Washington easily has the worst system

I disagree TENFOLD

[bobcat]

I like the Oregon system. Why not give 90% of the tags w/ the guys with the most points?  You know going in if you have a realistic chance of drawing and you can plan accordingly. If it takes to many points (years) to draw then you put in for a easier tag. There should be no complaints if you know it is going to take 17 years (I have 17 points) to draw if you know that when you put in. I don't like the fact that I have been putting in for that many years (for all species) and every year I get a Dear John letter. Just doesn't seem to be fair when you wait that long and someone has drawn the same permit 2 or 3 times. Washington easily has the worst system.

The difference between WA and OR, is that if you don't draw in Oregon, you can't hunt. They don't have a general rifle season for elk on the east side of the state, and same thing for mule deer. Therefore they have a lot more permits available to draw. For instance a unit in Oregon may have 5,000 permits, whereas a similar unit in Washington may have only 50. That is why a preference system like they use would not work here.

UNLESS, you want to eliminate our general seasons and our over the counter tags for everybody.

[JPhelps]

I like the Oregon system. Why not give 90% of the tags w/ the guys with the most points?  You know going in if you have a realistic chance of drawing and you can plan accordingly. If it takes to many points (years) to draw then you put in for a easier tag. There should be no complaints if you know it is going to take 17 years (I have 17 points) to draw if you know that when you put in. I don't like the fact that I have been putting in for that many years (for all species) and every year I get a Dear John letter. Just doesn't seem to be fair when you wait that long and someone has drawn the same permit 2 or 3 times. Washington easily has the worst system.

What if you would have drawn a tag early on?  Would you think differently?

I feel that our system (modified Nevada system) is about as fair of a system as you can get.  Everyone has a chance and the highest point holders have an exponentially better chance.  You could technically apply in Idaho and never draw a tag as well.  I like that there are many different systems in place across the west, so I can choose to gamble or use my money how I see fit. 

I can only assume some of the big point holders apply for premium units and stack the odds against themselves.

[boneaddict]

Correct, you still have to deal with lady luck but you do get more by being in the game longer, but those entering are not completely out of it like some of the other preference systems.

[Woodchuck]

I like the Oregon system. Why not give 90% of the tags w/ the guys with the most points?  You know going in if you have a realistic chance of drawing and you can plan accordingly. If it takes to many points (years) to draw then you put in for a easier tag. There should be no complaints if you know it is going to take 17 years (I have 17 points) to draw if you know that when you put in. I don't like the fact that I have been putting in for that many years (for all species) and every year I get a Dear John letter. Just doesn't seem to be fair when you wait that long and someone has drawn the same permit 2 or 3 times. Washington easily has the worst system.

What if you would have drawn a tag early on?  Would you think differently?

I feel that our system (modified Nevada system) is about as fair of a system as you can get.  Everyone has a chance and the highest point holders have an exponentially better chance.  You could technically apply in Idaho and never draw a tag as well.  I like that there are many different systems in place across the west, so I can choose to gamble or use my money how I see fit. 

I can only assume some of the big point holders apply for premium units and stack the odds against themselves.

I could not agree more Mr. Phelps 

[bearpaw]

I like the Oregon system. Why not give 90% of the tags w/ the guys with the most points?  You know going in if you have a realistic chance of drawing and you can plan accordingly. If it takes to many points (years) to draw then you put in for a easier tag. There should be no complaints if you know it is going to take 17 years (I have 17 points) to draw. I don't like the fact that I have been putting in for that many years (for all species) and every year I get a Dear John letter. Just doesn't seem to be fair when you wait that long and someone has drawn the same permit 2 or 3 times. Washington easily has the worst system.

I would say the WA system is in the middle. In my opinion Colorado has the worst system, I'm pretty sure 100% of OIL tags go to the applicants with the most points. New applicants have no chance of drawing for at least 10 to 20 years.

If we must have points, I think the Utah system is the most fair, 50% tags to applicants with most post points, 50% are random draw.

I will say it again, Idaho (no point system) has the best draw odds in the US for moose, sheep, and probably goat too.

[boneaddict]

Wyoming is 25%(non preference) and with Non resident caps in alot of units, NEED NOT APPLY for some species and tags.   No chance of random draw.

[bearpaw]

Simple Way To Improve Elk Draw Odds

Eliminate spike tags, that's just a meat hunt, you can put in for a cow tag and get just as much of a trophy. If you eliminate spike tags we could double or triple any bull tags after 1 or 2 years. 

[bobcat]

Simple Way To Improve Elk Draw Odds

Eliminate spike tags, that's just a meat hunt, you can put in for a cow tag and get just as much of a trophy. If you eliminate spike tags we could double or triple any bull tags after 1 or 2 years. 

    

Basically what I said (eliminate general seasons)

[arees]

There are more people who want to shoot elk that there are elk available to be shot.  As long as the number of elk and the number of people don't change, the percentage of people shooting elk won't change.  The number of people are more likely to go up than the number of elk.  You can skew it to help people who have applied for a long time.  You can skew it for people who have more money.  You can hand out over the counter tags for elk that don't exist.

Washington has a system that lets everybody who wants to get out and hunt an elk.  You don't need much money to have a chance (though a slim one) to draw a special tag.  People who have been applying for a long time have a better chance (though still a fairly slim one) to draw a special tag.

No matter how you slice it, most people aren't going to get to shoot branch antler bulls.

I'm just going to win the lottery and buy out of state land owner tags for the rest of my life.  I have slightly better odds of that than drawing the tag I want in Washington with the number of points I have now.

[boneaddict]

Simple Way To Improve Elk Draw Odds

Eliminate spike tags, that's just a meat hunt, you can put in for a cow tag and get just as much of a trophy. If you eliminate spike tags we could double or triple any bull tags after 1 or 2 years. 

    

Basically what I said (eliminate general seasons)

I am not there for deer yet, but would support it with elk for just this reason alone.   I have;t hunted elk for the last couple years as I didn't need the meat or want to shoot a spike, and have better things to do at this time, but have to buy the tag in order to put in for big bull.   

[jackelope]

This is progressing nicely .... Carry on.

[adamR]

judojudd- your first idea would greatly decrease draw odds for "the big units" (blues, yakima, colockum) so you would still most likely never be drawn the only bonus would be you could put in for it and physically see that you aren't drawn.
Youre second idea is rediculous in my opinion!  Hunting costs in this state are already outrageous!  There already is a drawing fee and doubling it last year already put a huge finacial hurt on most hunters.  You want to increase it from $13 to $50 how is that fair to the middle class hunter who is already barely able to afford permits?

If you have max points and still aren't being drawn for hunts APPLY FOR SOMETHING ELSE, stop crying about it and apply for another hunt.  I don't understand where people get the misconception that they absolutely have to hunt the blues or colockum.  There are huge bulls all over the state, work a little harder they are there.

I for one enjoy hunting eastside for spike.  I do not want to hunt the westside and if that means I have to settle for a spike in between getting drawn, oh well. 

I LOVE OUR PERMIT SYSTEM!!!  I don't put in for the best hunts because I actually want to be drawn and I get drawn pretty often and am pretty sucessful.

Finally, why are we as hunters so willling to pay so much more money for something we already contribute over 50% to conserving?  How is increasing the cost of something so less people apply going to make drawing a once in a lifetime tag fair?  Frankly I don't give a darn if you have applied for the last 20 years and have not and will not ever get drawn for an OIL tag.  Just because you have more money to waste than I do means that you should have a better chance of getting drawn?  I'm willing to pay $13 a year for the rest of my life per animal even if I never get drawn because I understand why there are so few tags and the draw is fair.  If I'm not luck enough to get drawn, oh well that's life.

I just don't understand how people can complain about draw odds at all, it's a very fair system and you aren't lucky.