Bill Would Increase Snowmobile Registration Fees...BILL PASSED WILL BECOME LAW

[bullcanyon]

So they were grooming trails for years on $30 per sled and now it will cost $50 per sled to run this program?  Am I missing something or were they really that far in the hole with this program?  I have no problem paying to play, but when the increases don't jive in my head I get suspicious.  I feel a little better after reading what bigtex said about the funds going into the snowmobile program, but I don't trust the state so I don't really believe that all 97% goes into it.

[sled]

So they were grooming trails for years on $30 per sled and now it will cost $50 per sled to run this program?  Am I missing something or were they really that far in the hole with this program?  I have no problem paying to play, but when the increases don't jive in my head I get suspicious.  I feel a little better after reading what bigtex said about the funds going into the snowmobile program, but I don't trust the state so I don't really believe that all 97% goes into it.

  They Sure Have Not Added Anymore Trails To Groom, Fuel Has Come Back Down, And Only One Operator For The Groomer?

  Unless The Extra Goes Directly To Wintering wildlife

[CAMPMEAT]

Snowmachines, ORV's, ATV's etc are all luxuries. If you can afford them then you can certainly afford to keep up with the necesssry maintenace of resources and inflation. Personnaly i think you' re getting off too cheap.
[/quote

Cars and trucks don't pay fees above and beyond to drive on forest circus roads as afar as I know. ATV's, ORV's, snowmobiles etc are not luxuries, they're something we enjoy. Everybody can get one if they want.

[bigtex]

When the bill had it's committee hearing there were no people in opposition. The following was testimony

The budget for the Snowmobile Program is $2.1 million right now and to maintain the current level of service requires about $2.6 million, which does not provide much for equipment replacement, trail expansion, or service level increases. In recent years, the downturn in the economy has led to less funds available for the program and the cost of grooming has increased because of fuel costs. It is very important for there to be adequate grooming, especially for those first learning to ride a snowmobile. Without additional funds the trails will be rougher and less desirable to ride on. Fewer people enjoying the trails and snowmobiling has an impact on the surrounding local businesses and economies. The fee has not been increased in some time. Grooming operators are working under a 28 percent reduction in hours. The state's children and grandchildren should be able to continue experiencing the snowmobiling opportunities in the state. The Snowmobile Program runs for 16 weeks in the winter. For a family to go out and enjoy two days on the snow could cost $350 in fuel alone to ride snowmobiles and play. Asking for the fee increases is a drop in the bucket and only halfway towards reaching sustainability. The program also supports nonmotorized recreation because there is joint use of parking lots and trails with crosscountry skiers and dog mushers. The Washington State Snowmobile Association recommends tying the effective dates to the bill's registration period.

The following people testified: Representative Condotta, prime sponsor; Pamela McConkey and Wayne McLaughlin, Washington State Parks and Recreation Commission; Jim Hedblom; Mike Couch; Carl Corn, Cascade Drift Skippers Snowmobile Club; and Sandy Sternod and Terry Kohl, Washington State Snowmobile Association.

Looks like the ones who are asking for the increase are the ones who use the program...

[KFhunter]

Thanks BT. 

I've noticed the grooming falling off well below 30% - more like 90%
I wonder if they've pulled grooming off lesser used areas to pool resources in more active areas.  Makes since anyways.


Every time I go riding there's folks complaining about the lack of grooming so it must be an issue.  I typically ride in Canada, and there is no grooming in most of the areas I prefer to ride but talk about a rough job getting in.   

I rode 10-15 miles up to the alpine in 4 - 5 foot deep whoops, dang near wore out just getting to the riding area 
but dang it's worth it once you're up there wow!

[bobcat]

When will you post info on Bills that will reduce fees?  They are always to increase or develop new fees.

Its all about increases.................disgusting.

I know its a damn shame when the price of fuel for groomers increases and they make the people who use the trails pay for it 

So when the price of fuel decreases, will they lower the fees?

Couldn't they groom the trails less often to offset the rising price of fuel?


I know....fuel isn't really the reason, but I'm willing to play your game for a while.

Well, when the price of fuel decreases, does your employer decrease your pay?

When the price of fuel increases, does your employer increase your pay?

I knew Bigtex wouldn't respond directly...

Yes, employers often give "cost of living" raises.

Except my employer hasn't for 5 or 6 years now.   


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Knocker of rocks]

When the bill had it's committee hearing there were no people in opposition. The following was testimony

The budget for the Snowmobile Program is $2.1 million right now and to maintain the current level of service requires about $2.6 million, which does not provide much for equipment replacement, trail expansion, or service level increases. In recent years, the downturn in the economy has led to less funds available for the program and the cost of grooming has increased because of fuel costs. It is very important for there to be adequate grooming, especially for those first learning to ride a snowmobile. Without additional funds the trails will be rougher and less desirable to ride on. Fewer people enjoying the trails and snowmobiling has an impact on the surrounding local businesses and economies. The fee has not been increased in some time. Grooming operators are working under a 28 percent reduction in hours. The state's children and grandchildren should be able to continue experiencing the snowmobiling opportunities in the state. The Snowmobile Program runs for 16 weeks in the winter. For a family to go out and enjoy two days on the snow could cost $350 in fuel alone to ride snowmobiles and play. Asking for the fee increases is a drop in the bucket and only halfway towards reaching sustainability. The program also supports nonmotorized recreation because there is joint use of parking lots and trails with crosscountry skiers and dog mushers. The Washington State Snowmobile Association recommends tying the effective dates to the bill's registration period.

The following people testified: Representative Condotta, prime sponsor; Pamela McConkey and Wayne McLaughlin, Washington State Parks and Recreation Commission; Jim Hedblom; Mike Couch; Carl Corn, Cascade Drift Skippers Snowmobile Club; and Sandy Sternod and Terry Kohl, Washington State Snowmobile Association.

Looks like the ones who are asking for the increase are the ones who use the program...

I would think there could be a carryover from this year, since grooming costs in many places are about zero, and they probably did sell some passes before the snow disappeared

[Caseyd]

When the bill had it's committee hearing there were no people in opposition. The following was testimony

The budget for the Snowmobile Program is $2.1 million right now and to maintain the current level of service requires about $2.6 million, which does not provide much for equipment replacement, trail expansion, or service level increases. In recent years, the downturn in the economy has led to less funds available for the program and the cost of grooming has increased because of fuel costs. It is very important for there to be adequate grooming, especially for those first learning to ride a snowmobile. Without additional funds the trails will be rougher and less desirable to ride on. Fewer people enjoying the trails and snowmobiling has an impact on the surrounding local businesses and economies. The fee has not been increased in some time. Grooming operators are working under a 28 percent reduction in hours. The state's children and grandchildren should be able to continue experiencing the snowmobiling opportunities in the state. The Snowmobile Program runs for 16 weeks in the winter. For a family to go out and enjoy two days on the snow could cost $350 in fuel alone to ride snowmobiles and play. Asking for the fee increases is a drop in the bucket and only halfway towards reaching sustainability. The program also supports nonmotorized recreation because there is joint use of parking lots and trails with crosscountry skiers and dog mushers. The Washington State Snowmobile Association recommends tying the effective dates to the bill's registration period.

The following people testified: Representative Condotta, prime sponsor; Pamela McConkey and Wayne McLaughlin, Washington State Parks and Recreation Commission; Jim Hedblom; Mike Couch; Carl Corn, Cascade Drift Skippers Snowmobile Club; and Sandy Sternod and Terry Kohl, Washington State Snowmobile Association.

Looks like the ones who are asking for the increase are the ones who use the program...

I would think there could be a carryover from this year, since grooming costs in many places are about zero, and they probably did sell some passes before the snow disappeared

 

[Elkaholic daWg]

When will you post info on Bills that will reduce fees?  They are always to increase or develop new fees.

Its all about increases.................disgusting.

I know its a damn shame when the price of fuel for groomers increases and they make the people who use the trails pay for it 

So when the price of fuel decreases, will they lower the fees?

Couldn't they groom the trails less often to offset the rising price of fuel?


I know....fuel isn't really the reason, but I'm willing to play your game for a while.

Well, when the price of fuel decreases, does your employer decrease your pay?

When the price of fuel increases, does your employer increase your pay?

I knew Bigtex wouldn't respond directly...

Yes, employers often give "cost of living" raises.

Except my employer hasn't for 5 or 6 years now.   


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Good Luck with that!  Unless maybe one works for a government agency         
 like so  many of these types do   

[bigtex]

When will you post info on Bills that will reduce fees?  They are always to increase or develop new fees.

Its all about increases.................disgusting.

I know its a damn shame when the price of fuel for groomers increases and they make the people who use the trails pay for it 

So when the price of fuel decreases, will they lower the fees?

Couldn't they groom the trails less often to offset the rising price of fuel?


I know....fuel isn't really the reason, but I'm willing to play your game for a while.

Well, when the price of fuel decreases, does your employer decrease your pay?

When the price of fuel increases, does your employer increase your pay?

I knew Bigtex wouldn't respond directly...

Yes, employers often give "cost of living" raises.

Except my employer hasn't for 5 or 6 years now.   

Sorry Miles I didn't know I needed to respond to every question.

Well lets look at state employees. They had a 3% reduction in pay from either 2009 or 11 until June 30, 2013.

Federal employees just got a 1% raise, their first raise in I believe 4 years.

[bigtex]

When the bill had it's committee hearing there were no people in opposition. The following was testimony

The budget for the Snowmobile Program is $2.1 million right now and to maintain the current level of service requires about $2.6 million, which does not provide much for equipment replacement, trail expansion, or service level increases. In recent years, the downturn in the economy has led to less funds available for the program and the cost of grooming has increased because of fuel costs. It is very important for there to be adequate grooming, especially for those first learning to ride a snowmobile. Without additional funds the trails will be rougher and less desirable to ride on. Fewer people enjoying the trails and snowmobiling has an impact on the surrounding local businesses and economies. The fee has not been increased in some time. Grooming operators are working under a 28 percent reduction in hours. The state's children and grandchildren should be able to continue experiencing the snowmobiling opportunities in the state. The Snowmobile Program runs for 16 weeks in the winter. For a family to go out and enjoy two days on the snow could cost $350 in fuel alone to ride snowmobiles and play. Asking for the fee increases is a drop in the bucket and only halfway towards reaching sustainability. The program also supports nonmotorized recreation because there is joint use of parking lots and trails with crosscountry skiers and dog mushers. The Washington State Snowmobile Association recommends tying the effective dates to the bill's registration period.

The following people testified: Representative Condotta, prime sponsor; Pamela McConkey and Wayne McLaughlin, Washington State Parks and Recreation Commission; Jim Hedblom; Mike Couch; Carl Corn, Cascade Drift Skippers Snowmobile Club; and Sandy Sternod and Terry Kohl, Washington State Snowmobile Association.

Looks like the ones who are asking for the increase are the ones who use the program...

I would think there could be a carryover from this year, since grooming costs in many places are about zero, and they probably did sell some passes before the snow disappeared

It's a cycle. I am sure this year there will be some carryover because of the late start. However I know in the recent good snow years the funding runs out before people stop snowmobiling, so at that point the trails aren't groomed. There have been some years where there is some leftover money after the 16 week period and they continue to groom with the extra money.

[stevemiller]

Also, I dont know about everywhere But we just got all kinds of new bathrooms and wheelchair access bathrooms over here.They even had to put a patch of asphalt around the bathrooms,a new snowmobile parking area a couple years ago as well.So we have been getting new stuff done as far as our snowmobiling goes.As far as the grooming goes,The groomer owns the grooming machine puts in his bid and that's what he gets paid.As for the member that said go without grooming,You are obviously not a snowmobiler. 

[509]

Gotcha, if I had a memory I would have remembered you explained that to me once before. Thanks, I'm glad it's funds from the snowmobile account and not from the general fund.

WDFW and USFS gets some funding from the snowmobile account for this enforcement but it's not to the level of sheriff's which are almost completely funded by the snowmobile account.

WDFW only gets the funding for a couple areas (I think Spokane and maybe Okanogan), so if you see a WDFW Officer doing snowmobile enforcement in Kittitas County for example chances are it's WDFW funding and not snowmobile.

USFS it really depends if it's USFS or snowmobile account money.

Before I retired from the Forest Service my recommendation was that we issue state parks a special use permit for operating the snowmobile program on National Forest land. 

The snowmobilers paid LESS than any other recreational group on the National Forest land for recreation fees.   Hopefully, some of this money will go for Forest Service management costs of the snowmobile program.   NOBODY else gets such a good deal from the taxpayers.

The Forest Service would automatically get 15% for the program IF the program goes under the special use permit requirements for managing the program. 

Unfortunately, in today's world is user pays.  Snowmobilers have been pouring ALL their license money into grooming and none into administration of the program.   The snowmobile program needs to be put on the same basis as the ORV program. 

[bigtex]

Engrossed Substitute Senate Bill 5889 passed the WA Senate on Feb 18 with a vote of 38-9. Those voting against were Benton, Dansel, Ericksen, Hewitt, Holmquist Newbry, Padden, Pearson, Rivers, and Roach.

On March 5 the House passed ESSB 5889 with a vote of 75-23. Those voting against were Blake, Buys, Christian, DeBolt, Haler, Hargrove, Harris, Hayes, Holy, Klippert, Kretz, MacEwen, Orcutt, Overstreet, Parker, Pike, Schmick, Scott, Shea, Short, Stonier, Taylor, and Vick.

It now goes to Inslee for his signature

Snowmobile registration fees will increase from $30 to $40 for the 2014-15 season, and will then increase to $50 for the 2015-16 season and will remain at $50 unless future legislation is enacted..

[Heredoggydoggy]

This State elects the Poster Boy for the Liberals to be Governor, and you wonder why you have to pay more?  Hahahahaha!